Standards deficiencies

Rick Murchison · Feb 17, 2003

In another thread, the question was asked: Are we leaving things out of the OW course that ought to be in it?
Seven pages of responses addressed one item - "Buoyancy and Trim" - so I will begin this thread by saying
1. Increased emphasis on buoyancy and trim
If you want to expound on that further, please do so in that thread.
---------------------------
I will add what I think is an important missing skill -
2. Being able to turn on your own air underwater.
I'm sure there are others.
Remember, buoyancy and trim are covered in #1.
Rick

MikeFerrara · Feb 17, 2003

A variety of kicks in a addition to a flutter.

I realize that some instructors do it but I don't know how many agencies require it at the OW level and some certainly don't.

mddolson · Feb 17, 2003

I'm not so sure that the standards are as defficient as instructors are, Rick.

I cannot speak about other agencies but refering to NAUI and PADI standards, both require the students to demonstrate the ability to hover mid water to demonstrate neutral buoyancy.
Both require buoyancy training as part of the curiculum.

I've observed quite a number of checkouts, and quite frankly there isn't much attention to buoyancy beyond, the basic skills assessment. For students to really master buoyancy control, it has to be practiced constantly.
I like the DIRF practice of performing mask R&R and OOA drills mid water.

Mike

Rick Murchison · Feb 17, 2003

mddolson once bubbled...
I'm not so sure that the standards are as defficient as instructors are, Rick.

I cannot speak about other agencies but refering to NAUI and PADI standards, both require the students to demonstrate the ability to hover mid water to demonstrate neutral buoyancy.
Both require buoyancy training as part of the curiculum.

I've observed quite a number of checkouts, and quite frankly there isn't much attention to buoyancy beyond, the basic skills assessment. For students to really master buoyancy control, it has to be practiced constantly.
I like the DIRF practice of performing mask R&R and OOA drills mid water.

Mike

Can we say you'd like to see more emphasis on buoyancy and trim, then?
Rick (adding yet another vote to #1)

Butch103 · Feb 17, 2003

How about more training with the dive tables? particularily the repetitive dives.......

How many of us went to a computer and have forgotten how to do the repetitive dive calcs?......

I know I did until I realized that the computer should be used as a tool, perhaps to check your own numbers, but as a tool. There is no reason to not use the brain for the initial calcs......

edited for my lousy Monday spelling

Rick Murchison · Feb 17, 2003

Butch103 once bubbled...
How about more training with the dive tables? particularily the repetitive dives.......

Hmmm... I'm sort of ambivalent on this one, especially for recreational divers. Have you seen the new NAUI "tables" for repetitive recreational dives? It'll take you about 30 seconds to learn to use it and you'll never forget how.
There is some merit, I think, in SDI's "computer only" approach, and frankly I see more agancies moving away from traditional tables to either dive computers or to more sophisticated desktop computer models from which custom tables for each dive are cut.
On the other hand you are absolutely right in the point that a computer is just another tool - and a diver should have a firm enough grounding in acceptable dive profiles to know when the computer is lying.
Rick

MikeFerrara · Feb 17, 2003

Nobody seconds my kick suggestion so I'll try another.

Gas management.... PADI standards require a student to look at the gauge and they recomment the student end the dive with between three and sis hundred psi remaining. IANTD introduces the 1/2 + 200 rule but I don't remember if it's in OW or AOW. I don't think either methos is sufficient especially when resort DM's are taking novices on deep dives.

Butch103 · Feb 17, 2003

I agree with your kick suggestion....

I was just adding to the thought processes out there.

Rick, I haven't seen the new tables, but if there is something simpler and easier and also maintains safe diving limits I am all for it......

raybo · Feb 17, 2003

Physics & physiology.

A little more understanding of these would lead to a lot more understanding of all of the other issues debated.

If you can understand ~ on a fundamental level ~ thing like mass density, and why a cork floats and a rock sinks, and a gas is compressable, but a liquid isn't, and a bit of the "why" behind that, it's not going to be much of a stretch to apply the concept to practice.

Now, at least from my experience and observation, it is just a "monkey see, monkey do", with very little emphasis on the "why".

They used to teach this stuff very in depth. Not just a token few minutes on the subject. And test on it!

No, not everybody passed, but not everybody should, either

Diver0001 · Feb 17, 2003

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Nobody seconds my kick suggestion so I'll try another.

Gas management.... PADI standards require a student to look at the gauge and they recomment the student end the dive with between three and sis hundred psi remaining. IANTD introduces the 1/2 + 200 rule but I don't remember if it's in OW or AOW. I don't think either methos is sufficient especially when resort DM's are taking novices on deep dives.

I'll second both of those (kicks and gas management) and add one of my own, buddy skills & dive "think-throughs". Some people learn it from their instructors but I don't think it's formally in the system until DM level. How many OW divers know how to ask the right questions to ask in deciding if tehy want to do a particular dive with a particular buddy or to come to an acceptable plan for everyone. Given how people are paired off on dive boats it makes sense to get this on the agenda early. Likewise, we're taught "follow the leader" during courses, which is the first thing you need to "unlearn" after your OWD class and your buddy needs you "beside" him.

R..

Standards deficiencies

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