Is there any value to using a Jon-line for safety stop hangs when in flag pole mode on a St Lawrence wreck?
I haven't used one before and it seems an easy piece of kit to make....
I can imagine that it makes it easier for divers to get by you on a busy line and you might even be able to help a diver that loses hold of the anchor line since you will be a little further downstream I suppose.
Does this place you in a poor position vis-a-vis a dive buddy? (i.e. if you make the line 5-6 feet long, are you going to have a mouthful of fins, and will a longer line make you more prone to changing your position in the water column and more difficult to return to the anchor line? For the Men in Black hanging around for hours in solitary darkness it makes good sense, but how about for a 3-5 minute safety stop.
More trouble than it's worth? Any downside to doing this?
WreckWriter
February 21st, 2003, 01:17 PM
Lots of value for long hangs, but for a safety stop probably more hassle than it's worth.
WW
divedude
February 21st, 2003, 01:59 PM
I agree with WW.
In the river if it's just a safety stop and the current's rippin, just hang on!
tinman
February 21st, 2003, 02:45 PM
Tx Jim/WW, I figured you could give me the straight goods. I still think for A types there's an opportunity here. Glow in the dark books, waterproof DVD player - "I can't wait all minute" for this stop to be over, particularly since I'm not looking at pretty fish or anything...yeh, I suppose I can contemplate the meaning of life and keep my buddy's gear out of my face, OOA drills - now that would be interesting why flag poling on the St. Lawrence..
Walter
February 21st, 2003, 03:30 PM
How many will be hanging off at once? I always have a line in my pocket. When diving off a crowded boat, I often use my line to get out of the crowd. It's definately worth the effort. I have an 8 ft line to keep me out of the fins. Buoyancy control will keep you at the right depth, not the length of the line.
divedude
February 21st, 2003, 05:21 PM
tinman once bubbled...
"I can't wait all minute" for this stop to be over, particularly since I'm not looking at pretty fish or anything...yeh, I suppose I can contemplate the meaning of life and keep my buddy's gear out of my face, OOA drills - now that would be interesting why flag poling on the St. Lawrence..
If your not in a current, "practice practice practice" Alex {my son} & I do reg switches, buddy breath, bouyancy control. We always switch to our secondary reg's on stops.
Why: It make's it a habit, if for any reason someone comes in a ooa situation and grab's your reg, its habit to go for your second.
Another reason: I was playing around one day, free diving down to the "Aloha", One of my customers saw me and offered me her second. I figuered "what the heck" took it exhaled and took a breath, A mouth full of water, I purged took another breath, more water. Now I'm at 60' no air "SeeYa" I blasted to the surface.
Later we checked her second, the diafram was split wide open.
Her response:"I never use it, so I never check it"
I never allow Alex or myself to touch a line when accending or doing safety stops {when there's no current or slow current} and his bouyancy control is better that 99% of diver's I've met.
So make safety stops count! Practice!
DivingGal
February 21st, 2003, 05:23 PM
Walter once bubbled...
How many will be hanging off at once? I always have a line in my pocket. When diving off a crowded boat, I often use my line to get out of the crowd. It's definately worth the effort. I have an 8 ft line to keep me out of the fins. Buoyancy control will keep you at the right depth, not the length of the line.
To give me a jon line when I visited the gang down in Florida. I also have the line in my pocket all the time. If there's only a couple of you on the desent line no problem, but as Walter says, when there's a crowd -- the line is very useful, in a current or without.
Scubaroo
February 21st, 2003, 05:31 PM
So, question for the folks using a jon line, do you hang on to the end of the jon line, or clip the end of it off to a D-ring and relax?
Anyone using a jon line made from bungee to take some of the jerk of the anchor chain out in a swell?
I'm thinking of making one to throw in the pocket for boat dives - there's been occasions when I've wished I had one.
Walter
February 21st, 2003, 06:57 PM
I use a buddy line because it is useful in so many different ways. I'm always discovering new uses for it. It's simple poly line 6 - 8 feet long with a loop on each end. I never clip it to my BC. I've never had any trouble with it jerking in swell.
seahunter
February 23rd, 2003, 02:55 AM
I wouldn't want to 'clip' or otherwise attach any kind of line to my person. A good loop in my hand or at the most a large loop with my arm through it is the most attachment I'd want.
Many times when diving with a small group we'd put a bar down instead of a hang line. It's quite common in some areas of the south. In stiff current it's particularly useful since it tends to hang straight even with several divers on it. It stays at the same depth while lines tend to get shallower in stiff currents. The bar I'm most used to is very heavy (usually 1 1/4" black steel pipe) and hung along the side of the boat (parallel to the keel). It's easy to hold onto, you can separate yourself from each other but still stay in contact, you can hang other lines, tanks or gear from it. We often would attach our cameras or diver tows to it and pull them up with the bar later.
Would that idea suit your purposes?
mddolson
February 24th, 2003, 07:38 PM
I was diving on the Henry C Daryaw last Fall, there were about 14 divers on our boat , plus another had pulled along side and tied up.
When it came time to do our stops, my Jon line was mighty handy,. For those who don't know the Daryaw, it's a waving flag hang. (1 1/2 - 2 knots current) I was glad I had my Jon line. The down line was ok below 20 ft but it was realy crouded at 10-15 ft. I just hooked on and set the length to 8 ft and hung away from the croud.
I Use the SS Hook (Like a giant hair pin) and a bolt snap. Its looped together with 8 ft of 1 inch nylon strap , kept tight with a 1 inch piece of bicycle inner tube. I just pull it our, hook on, pay out and snap to my D ring.
Great for long hangs or heavy current.
Mike D
DivingGal
February 25th, 2003, 07:43 AM
mddolson once bubbled...
I was diving on the Henry C Daryaw last Fall, there were about 14 divers on our boat , plus another had pulled along side and tied up.
When it came time to do our stops, my Jon line was mighty handy,. For those who don't know the Daryaw, it's a waving flag hang.
Been there, done that....
GTADiver
February 28th, 2003, 01:54 AM
DivingGal once bubbled...
If there's only a couple of you on the desent line no problem, but as Walter says, when there's a crowd -- the line is very useful, in a current or without.
Why would you do a stop on the way down?? Would you not use it on the ascent line?? LOL --just having fun diving gal
DivingGal
February 28th, 2003, 08:05 AM
GTADiver once bubbled...
Why would you do a stop on the way down?? Would you not use it on the ascent line?? LOL --just having fun diving gal
oops wrong name... same line. :D
But it sort of raises the question -- other than using a jon line during your "hanging time", and using it as a buddy line during not so great viz conditions -- when else would you use a jon line?
Walter
February 28th, 2003, 08:11 AM
I'm swimming along, not hunting, but see a nice flounder. I have no gun, no stringer. I do have a knife, so I gig the fish, take out my buddy line and use it as a stringer.
Next use?
Cave Diver
February 28th, 2003, 08:56 AM
I'm tired of swimming, I see Walter below, not paying attention cuz he's too busy giggin flounders.
So out comes my jon line, loop it over his tank valve and secure it to my scooter ring and let him tow me around for a while.
<taking a closer look at exactly how big that knife is he's using first>
Next use?
DivingGal
February 28th, 2003, 09:49 AM
Cave Diver once bubbled...
...So out comes my jon line, loop it over his tank valve and secure it to my scooter ring and let him tow me around for a while....
Don't laugh, I've seen Walter do exactly that... ask NetDoc, TexasMike, Bev ... I've have picture proof.
In the few dives I'v had with Walter, I've only been able to catch him once unaware, most of the time he's so aware of what's going on, you can't do it without him noticing it.
GTADiver
February 28th, 2003, 10:23 AM
DivingGal once bubbled...
But it sort of raises the question -- other than using a jon line during your "hanging time", and using it as a buddy line during not so great viz conditions -- when else would you use a jon line?
Two common uses:
1) suspending a few beers/cans of coke in the water to cool them off for that after dive social
2) for carrying a bunch of BC's from the pool back to a vehicle after doing a scuba experience.
Walter
February 28th, 2003, 10:57 AM
In rescues, it's my preferred method of towing a conscious diver. Loop the line around the tank valve and tow from a safe distance. The rescurer is safer and it is less exhausting than other methods of towing a panicked diver.
CD,
One of my favorites!
June,
You gotta admit, I covered it well making you think I was on to you the whole time.
Next use?
tinman
February 28th, 2003, 12:28 PM
Cave Diver once bubbled...
So out comes my jon line, loop it over his tank valve and secure it to my scooter ring and let him tow me around for a while.
...ahh yes I can see it now. The "CD manouver" will become a famous addition to all topgun cave diver training: "backup scooter, check, ninja line... errrr jon line for emergency deployment, check, extra knife to deal with unhappy buddy, check....so students, after your two scooters and your buddies two scooters die and you have exhausted your buddy's swimming ability, at least one of you will get out, provided your knife is longer than his..."
Walter: Interesting thought for rescue tow. I have a shorter line with loops at each end to help secure things to my lift bag bolt clip - I can see replacing that with an 8 footer with loops at each end and a fastener for anchor lines.
Mike: wouldn't you need a massive bolt snap to get it on and off the St. Lawrence wreck lines. Is there a tendency for it to slip up/down in a heavy current...I suppose a foot or two is manageable...
Thank-you one and all for your novel, insightful - dare I say entertaining - suggestions...
Walter
February 28th, 2003, 01:17 PM
You can't give CD credit for that one, I've actually been using it for years.
Cave Diver
February 28th, 2003, 01:24 PM
Walter once bubbled...
You can't give CD credit for that one, I've actually been using it for years.
Dang! Just when I thought I was gonna be famous!
tinman
February 28th, 2003, 01:45 PM
the "CDW manouver"? If we can find another letter, we can say NASA invented it and ask for millions. CD can train the cavers and Walter can train all the Black Ops folks (since we all know Walter likes diving in the dark), and we can have you split royalties on the PADI cert course!
..Surely we can find a couple things to name after our prolific ScubaBoarders. Jon isn't the only bright spark underwater....
Walter
February 28th, 2003, 03:23 PM
Absolutely no to a PADI specialty. WHAT were you thinking?!?
DivingGal
February 28th, 2003, 03:51 PM
Walter once bubbled...
You gotta admit, I covered it well making you think I was on to you the whole time.
well at least you were the sweetie and let me have a small dream... one day, though :D
MikeFerrara
February 28th, 2003, 03:57 PM
divedude once bubbled...
I was playing around one day, free diving down to the "Aloha", One of my customers saw me and offered me her second. I figuered "what the heck" took it exhaled and took a breath, A mouth full of water, I purged took another breath, more water. Now I'm at 60' no air "SeeYa" I blasted to the surface.
Later we checked her second, the diafram was split wide open.
Her response:"I never use it, so I never check it"
If a second stage has a split diaghram you can breath it by holding the purge during the breath.
mddolson
February 28th, 2003, 06:11 PM
Tinnman asked: Mike: wouldn't you need a massive bolt snap to get it on and off the St. Lawrence wreck lines. Is there a tendency for it to slip up/down in a heavy current...I suppose a foot or two is manageable...
You got it backwards.
The bolts snap clips to my shoulder D-ring. The other end is like a giant bobby pin, that I clip to the line
See the picture.
At 8 ft out form the down line it can bob up and down all it wants and I stay right where I'm trimmed.
Mike D
sparky30
March 4th, 2003, 03:26 PM
divedude once bubbled...
I never allow Alex or myself to touch a line when accending or doing safety stops {when there's no current or slow current} and his bouyancy control is better that 99% of diver's I've met.
So make safety stops count! Practice!
I completely agree.. There is nothing I hate more than getting stuck in a "gaggle" of divers all hanging around 20 feet.. Fins and bad bouancy everywhere.. Current permitting I usually ascend next to the line (without touching) and hover around the 15-20 ft mark for my safety stop.. It really improves your bouyancy, especially when you can do it on a rough day with everybody else bobbing up and down on the line :)
