Getting into tech

[c6six]

I am looking at getting into tech diving. I live in central NY.

I have:
2 xtx 100's
and that is about it.

I'm looking at:
-backplate and wing, was going to go w/ H eclipse 40# and evolve 60#, but am not so sure about that now after reading a bunch of posts.

-twins, I would just assume go as big as I can for now. I can always get smaller ones later, but don't want to be limited by size now! Does that make sense, what should I be looking for?

-deco bottle size?

I don't mind spending the money, I just don't want to spend it and then wish I had gotten something else, and have way too much info running through my head right now.
I am 25 years old, and have 40 to 50 dives, and I seem to like the deeper darker ones best so far.

oh, and this is my first post

[El Orans]

:admingreet:
Moved to Technical Diving Specialties.

BTW, Welcome (Scub)aBoard!

[TSandM]

Really, the best thing is to figure out what kind of diving you are going to do, and who you are going to do it with, and hook up with those people and find out what they are diving and how they arrange it. You want to use doubles that are big enough for the dives you intend to do, but not ridiculously large and heavy. Remember you have to carry them up boat ladders!

It can also be very productive to identify the technical instructor with whom you want to work, and talk to him about his gear recommendations.

[SparticleBrane]

I agree with TSandM. What you need most right now is experience.

[AndrewJD]

I think he's made up his mind on what kind of diving he wants to do...

With that, the first steps on this life long journey is three fold.

1. You need to start building up gear resources.

The gear you need to do this properly is going to cost a lot. (doubles = $1000; drysuit = $2000, deco bottle = $750, backgas regs = $1000+, wing = $300, light = $1000+, backup lights = $300+, etc...) Chances are you can't afford it all at once, so you need to do this over time. The key is to purchase stuff that is forward compatible. For example, a backplate can be used with doubles or singles. Single steel tanks can be doubled up at a later. AL80s can be used as singles now and stages later.

2. You need to develop proficiency at fundamental skills. Buoyancy control, finning techniques, environment and team awareness, etc... These skills all have one thing in common. You only get better with practice which require time.

3. You need to learn the tactics techniques and procedures. Gas planning, deco procedures, failure management, etc... This requires a good mentor/instructor and of course time and money.

Bottom line is, you can't just go from getting OW certified one day to diving a 200ft wreck the next. Even if you could afford all the gear, you need to develop skill and experience which requires time and lots of diving.

Certainly you can start down the path. I'd recommend a drysuit as your first investment followed by a pair of steel tanks that you can dive as singles now and doubles later. After that, get a backplate and single wing. A double wing can come later. As you acquire this gear you need to get out and dive often focusing on buoyancy control, trim, and finning. This will be a lot easier if you have a group of people to dive with who also want to be tech divers and or some mentors who can provide feedback. Then you need a primary light, followed by bands and a manifold to double you tanks....

Good luck.

Jonathan

[TSandM]

Well, what I meant by what kind of diving he wants to do is are the wrecks he wants to visit in the Tech 1 range or the Tech 2 range? That may make a difference in the size of doubles he needs for his diving.

[skippy31]

I would suggest taking it a step at a time. Perhaps doubles first. Get proficient with them then think about a deco bottle, or maybe a drysuit.

Take it a step at a time as each time you add gear you'll need some time to practice with it. Practice will also give you time to consider what equipment will be best for your next step.

Overall take it slow as you don't want to end up with a bunch of equipment that is not suitable for your diving, or finding your not comfortable using it,

Mat.

[texdiveguy]

I might say to the OP....keep up your active sport diving as you learn by reading/watching/asking.....continue to take small steps in your training and gear purchases. Have a 'reason' for moving onto the next level of diving skill....practice and most of all have fun! Technical diving seems to be a 'big rage' right now....everyone is wanting to be a technical diver...I hope yours is a serious one as it does involve commitment and time and resources. Good luck. :)

[Spork]

If you're not diving dry at this point, this should be your priority. It's a bigger step going from wet to dry than going from single to doubles. With that said, I believe diving is the next thing to focus on. Control and being comfortable under water is always something you benefit from when taking a new course on your way to being a technical diver.

[c6six]

I know I have to go dry next, I have a dry suit class at the beginning of next month. The class is with the instructor that I would be doing technical training with. I guess from what you are telling me, he will give me a good idea of what I need next.

Right now I want to be able to go to wrecks at 100+ feet and be able to spend a good amount of time there. I have no doubt about getting into technical diving for the right reasons. (like you haven't heard that before) I just want to do it right, so as I get better, and learn more, I don't have a bunch of bad habits to break, and equipment to buy over. Right now I can afford a dry suit backplate and wings. So that is my plan. Should I go the Halcyon route? I dove a rental in 40# eclipse in Florida recently...... heaven.......compared to my probe lx. I wish I would have known it and bought the backplate and wing 1st. I just don't want to get into that type of situation.

I may also be able to afford tanks soon, but I guess I should be waiting?
I should take this course next month in back plate and wing I would assume?
Should I do it in the eclipse or evolve?
I don't want to move to fast, but I seem to be quick learner, thus far, I am sure I will be challenged more and more shortly!

thank you

[Colliam7]

Fully agree with the drysuit as the first step, and sounds like you are already starting that process.
I have: 2 xtx 100's and that is about it. So, good start, you have your backgas regs already.
-backplate and wing, was going to go w/ H eclipse 40# and evolve 60#, but am not so sure about that now after reading a bunch of posts. Absolutely nothing wrong with that as a starting point. Get a SS BP, and a small wing, and start diving singles. Add a doubles wing a little later.
-twins, I would just assume go as big as I can for now. I can always get smaller ones later, but don't want to be limited by size now! Does that make sense, what should I be looking for?At your age, and assuming a level of fitness, think about HP steel 130s. They are good single tanks, and a good doubles rig when you add a manifold. But, if you can find already doubled HP100s (or 120s) at a good price, that would be an additional option.
-deco bottle size?Start with a 40 cf AL. You may add 80s or 30s later, but having a 40 is a reasonable first step. If nothing else, it is a good pony bottle and allows you to develop skill slinging it on single tank wreck dives.
I don't mind spending the money, I just don't want to spend it and then wish I had gotten something else, and have way too much info running through my head right now.If you get a GOOD drysuit, a SS BP (irrespective of brand), a good singles wing and doubles wing (again, irrespective of brand), and HP steel tanks (100, 120, 130, whatever), chances are you won't 'wish you had gotten something else'. You WILL add gear over time, and you may tweak your gear - sell something and buy something else - but you probably won't regret the initial purchase.

[ianr33]

-twins, I would just assume go as big as I can for now. I can always get smaller ones later, but don't want to be limited by size now! Does that make sense, what should I be looking for?


The largest tanks most people dive are LP104's/HP130 (essentially the same tank).These are the tanks to use if you want to do 20 minutes at 300 feet.They hold a lot of gas but are heavy! Climbing boat ladders or walking across a rocky shore wearing them would not be much fun.
I only use my 104' when I really need them. You might want to consider something smaller to start with.

[TSandM]

Halcyon makes good gear, but it tends to be on the high end for price. They have a lot of competition these days, from companies like Deep Sea Supply, Oxycheq, and Golem Gear, among others. You may save a substantial sum by doing some comparison shopping.

[c6six]

Quote:
Originally Posted by c6six View Post
-backplate and wing, was going to go w/ H eclipse 40# and evolve 60#, but am not so sure about that now after reading a bunch of posts.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that as a starting point. Get a SS BP, and a small wing, and start diving singles. Add a doubles wing a little later.

I was thinking 40# single, should I go w/ a 30#?? as you said small!
So I think I'm going to get xsscuba x-series 130 (worthington x8-130) < same thing right?, They swing from -11.7 to -2lbs is salt water.

Should I consider an argon bottle right away?

and what is a GOOD dry suit, my dealer is trying to get me into a "BARE XCD2 Tech Dry"

BARE Scuba Diving - USA (http://barescubadiving.com/usa/drysuits-and-underwear/neoprene-drysuits/xcd2/xcd2-techdry.asp)

It has been used for a dry suit coarse and the the guy decided it wasn't for him so I can get allot cheaper than new

THANK YOU EVERYONE, I'm trying to learn as fast as I can. Since I've caught this bug, every dirty river and lake I drive by here in NY gets my attention, ha ha.

[texdiveguy]

I was thinking 40# single, should I go w/ a 30#?? as you said small!
So I think I'm going to get xsscuba x-series 130 (worthington x8-130) < same thing right?, They swing from -11.7 to -2lbs is salt water.

and what is a GOOD dry suit, my dealer is trying to get me into a "BARE XCD2 Tech Dry"

BARE Scuba Diving - USA (http://barescubadiving.com/usa/drysuits-and-underwear/neoprene-drysuits/xcd2/xcd2-techdry.asp)

It has been used for a dry suit coarse and the the guy decided it wasn't for him so I can get allot cheaper than new

THANK YOU EVERYONE, I'm trying to learn as fast as I can. Since I've caught this bug, every dirty river and lake I drive by here in NY gets my attention, ha ha.

Glad you are getting what you find is useful information.....The BARE dry suits are very good...I dive a BARE and find it excellent. If you can pick one up at a good price and it fits....can't go wrong.

[skippy31]

Should I consider an argon bottle right away?



I would not worry about argon until you get into trimix diving. There is very little (if any noticeable) difference between air/nitrox and argon in the suit.

Putting helium into your suit however does suck.

Mat.

[battles2a5]

The first test in deciding whether or not you are ready for technical diving goes as follows: 1. Walk into bathroom. 2. Open wallet. 3. Fetch largest bill. 4. Drop in toilet. 5. Flush and repeat steps 1-4. If you can handle this without cringing, you are ready for tech diving :)

I think you'll like your 130's. They are great tanks, trim out very well, and you'll have oodles of gas. While you are getting used to the equipment you will be able to get two recreational dives on them so no need for multiple sets on the boat and not switching tanks between dives. They are heavy but you'll get used to them.

As for the BP/wing, I have no problem w/ the quality or function of Halcyon gear but it is just way overpriced for my tastes. I'm not going to shell out the cash for an "H" on my gear when I can get just as good if not better gear from Agir, DSS, Oxycheq, etc., etc.

You will be happy with Bare. I dive a DUI myself, but dive with some folks who own Bares and they love them.

Take the time you need to gather gear to work on your skills. You don't need to be in a technical environment to work on the skills that you need to be successful in a technical environemnt. Bouyancy and trim needs to be spot on. Ascents and descents need to be very controlled, especially your ascent through shallow water (30 to 20, 20 to 10). Good buddy and environment awareness, communication, and the ability to plan a dive and execute that plan. All this stuff can be practiced on any dive and so take advantage of the time you have before now and the start of your training.

Find a good mentor! It is good to have a sounding board while you are working through issues and you won't have the pressure to perform that might have with an instructor. Just make sure you find someone who is doing the kind of dives that you want to be doing.

Good luck w/ your transition and congrats on the decision. As with many other things in life, it's all about the journey and not just the destination.

[BGF]

[quote=c6six;3496477]
I have no doubt about getting into technical diving for the right reasons. (like you haven't heard that before) I just want to do it right

I'm also slowly getting into tech and DIR agreed w/ me from the very start. I went straight to a bp/w (Halcyon 27lb pioneer) and long hose, Apex atx200/50. Just got my 1st dry suit afer 4 yrs am going to upgrade to a double steel setup soon (still using al80's). I definitely don't regret buying anything, just wish I could find a bottomless wallet :D. Good luck and enjoy learning.

[c6six]

does it make more sense for me to get a 30 or 40lb singles wing?? how do i decide??

[ianr33]

does it make more sense for me to get a 30 or 40lb singles wing?? how do i decide??

What are you going to use it for?
If you are diving in the Caribbean with a lycra skin and an Al 80 then the 30 pound wing is more than enough.
If you are diving a 7mm farmer John with a steel 130 then you might prefer the 40 pounder.

So the answer is "it depends" !

[c6six]

I'm starting w/ dry suit class, and single, probably steel 130. But I figure that once I get some time w/ the dry suit I will learn the doubles. I would Imagine that then I will be in the doubles most the time up here in NY, then I would be taking the single wing on trips mostly. (FL and such) I just hear that the 40's are a bit more unstable and don't perform as well if you don't need the lift. is that a crock?? It's probably not a good idea to go and learn to dive doubles and dry at the same time is it??

also when I go and get these tanks, does valve brand matter much?? Get them so you can screw that little adapter in to go to yoke?? What options should I be looking for??

[Colliam7]

I was thinking 40# single, should I go w/ a 30#?? I don't think there is a lot of difference in 'stability'. If you can dive them both before buying, try to do so. I had a regular diving buddy who started with a 30 and felt it was slightly weak on lift in fresh water. N of 1 so it may not be relevant. You may start with a HP 130. You may use a AL40 as a pony with your singles rig. Start with 40#.
So I think I'm going to get xsscuba x-series 130 (worthington x8-130) < same thing right?, They swing from -11.7 to -2lbs is salt water. Good tanks. I can climb a rocking boat ladder with double 120s, and dive with others who do so with 130s. Easy? Not particularly. Doable? Absolutely. If you 'go tech' you will end up with several sets of doubles, anyway, so whether you start with 130s, 120s or 100s is not altogether critical. Buying new, go with the 130s.
Should I consider an argon bottle right away?No. You can use your backgas for drysuit inflation until you start trimix.
and what is a GOOD dry suit, my dealer is trying to get me into a "BARE XCD2 Tech Dry". It has been used for a dry suit coarse and the the guy decided it wasn't for him so I can get allot cheaper than new.A GOOD drysuit is one that fits YOU well. The BARE XCD2 is a good suit in itself, but makes certain it fits. Too small is worse than too big, but neither is desirable. The selling price should be no more than 50% of retail.
It's probably not a good idea to go and learn to dive doubles and dry at the same time is it??If you can learn to dive dry first before adding the complexity of doubles, by all means do so. But, more than a few people learn both at the same time - when they start a tech course - so it is not out of the question. Get the BP/W, get the drysuit, get a single steel tank, and start there.

[c6six]

It's settled then.


I'll get the 40# wing since I had a chance to dive that and it felt great to me.
the xsscuba 130, just one for now,
Dry suit
and an AL 40 for deco

The other thing I would really like to get is a canister light, but that will have to wait a bit. Talk about expensive.

[texdiveguy]

The other thing I would really like to get is a canister light, but that will have to wait a bit. Talk about expensive.

................:rofl3:..............it's just begun!!!

[syntaxerrorsix]

................:rofl3:..............it's just begun!!!

Aint that the truth.. Some weekends I have to decide whether I should put my discretionary income towards some piece of equipment I need or to dive! I always dive :)

[silverfish88]

I would not worry about argon until you get into trimix diving. There is very little (if any noticeable) difference between air/nitrox and argon in the suit.

Putting helium into your suit however does suck.

Mat.

Stupid question, but what happens if you put helium into your suit? I know helium is less dense than air and rises, but what happens to it underwater? Little insulating? Anything worse? BTW-I am looking forward to my SSI tech class starting Monday.

[texdiveguy]

Stupid question, but what happens if you put helium into your suit? I know helium is less dense than air and rises, but what happens to it underwater? Little insulating? Anything worse? BTW-I am looking forward to my SSI tech class starting Monday.

No one is going to pump pure He into a dry suit.....in the case of trimix were He is an active component....this mix is just a poor insulator as a result of He properties. You can either use air or argon from your inflation system when breathing trimix.....trimix would be an expensive gas to go waste in a ds....it again is a poor insulator/crummy thermo properties, and there is a slight risk factor to increased chances of skin ICD. I find persl. little difference in air vs. argon when diving trimix---but that's just me. ;)

[c6six]

More Questions,

I have now read that it is a good idea to keep all your regs the same. Deco's and backgass. Right now I have 2 xtx 100's so they go up to 40% oxygen, so how is this possible if you have a deco/mix of more than 40%?? Do you have all regs capable of going to 100% and then less than 40% is ok too?? If you had a problem, had to take a 2nd stage off and put it on a dif bottle what if one was under 40% and one over??

Also an apeks tx 50, and tx 40, the 50 has a swivelling turret and it is mentioned that is a nice feature, couple less inches of hose needed, and ease of breathing compared to something w/o a swivelling turret. However isn't the swivelling turret itself another point for failure from a DIR prospective?? I mean this info is coming from the same page that just got done telling me that I should have all the same regs!! That way if one breaths funny at all then I would notice compared to the others. I think that is a great idea!!

anyways here is the link..

Stages & Deco (http://www.gasdiving.co.uk/pages/misc/kit/stages.htm)

which I got off "DIR: God's gift to diving or Hell spawn?" Is that page outdated in some way, how good are the 50 and 40 apeks are they outdated??

Hopefully someone can make some sense of all this for me.

What is a helios canister light w/ 10w hid worth?? any ideas?? Is it a good light or should I steer clear. Has never been in the water.

I know that I am probably getting way ahead of myself at this point, but I can't stop reading and getting more info, and that raises questions!! I want to learn as much as I can so as I plan on spending all of this money that I am going to spend I have a really good plan of attack for what equipment to aquire next, and why. I don't want any regrets (like that junk probe lx I bought)

[texdiveguy]

More Questions,


I know that I am probably getting way ahead of myself at this point,

......YEP!

[pacchill]

The Apeks are nice. I have a DS4/XTX40 and 50 for singles rig. Got 2 DS4 but I get lazy swapping hoses for doubles rig. So I just use my Salvo for doubles.

Deco Gas can go up to 100%, that is when you want you reg, and bottle O2 clean... you will see pics of bottles with OXYGEN on the side,this means there is 100% O2 inside. You can only breath pure O2 to a certain depth. Don't worry you will learn all about PPO2, and MOD, fun stuff. Also you don't need all your regs to be O2 clean, back gas is fine for 40%. Most regs are gtg up to 40%. Steer clear of Titanium regs too..

[pacchill]

I dig Salvo's lights. Great service, great lights and they use Brightstar bulb (so does and Dive Rite) which is really quite tough compared to the Welch-Allyn in the Halcyon. BUT!!! if the price is right snatch it up! Just take care of the head. GOOD CARE. HID bulbs are not cheap.

On another note, a 10w will get you going... but in todays market save a little more cash and get somthing bigger. Most every one has a 21w, or bigger like 25 and 50

[Colliam7]

I have now read that it is a good idea to keep all your regs the same. Deco's and backgass. There are levels of 'sameness'. One level is to have the same reg for both backgas tanks, and all deco bottles. For example, I have a 'tech' set of 4 Zeagle ZX50Ds. Two are set up for my backgas (one has a long hose reg and BC inflator hose, the other has the SPG and necklace reg), and two are set up for deco bottles (same short SPG hose, same length second stage hoses). Another level, is to have all the same manufacturer, albeit different regs for different uses. I have another 'tech' set which includes two ATX200s for backgas, and two Apeks AT20s for deco bottles. Works fine. A third level is essentially no sameness. My dive buddy has four different regs. Two are ScubaPro (albeit different models), that he uses for backgas. The two deco regs are different manufacturers. He did this for economic convenience - these are the regs he had when he started tech. It works just fine for him (he also is a reg tech and services his own gear).
Do you have all regs capable of going to 100% and then less than 40% is ok too??No. My ATX200s are not O2 cleaned, while the AT20s are. Two of my Zeagles are, two aren't. If the regs are O2 cleaned, you can use any percentage of oxygen. But, if one of my (O2 clean) deco regs fails on a dive trip, I am going to swap it out for another deco reg, or try to service it, or abort the trip. I won't reconfigure one of my (none O2 clean) backgas regs as a deco reg. Too much trouble.
Also an apeks tx 50, and tx 40, the 50 has a swivelling turret and it is mentioned that is a nice feature, couple less inches of hose needed, and ease of breathing compared to something w/o a swivelling turret. However isn't the swivelling turret itself another point for failure from a DIR prospective?? Swivels are a nice feature, not essential, but not going to fail and kill you, either. My Zeagles all have swivels, none of the Apeks do. It doesn't make a lot of difference for hose routing, at least for me.
I mean this info is coming from the same page that just got done telling me that I should have all the same regs!! That way if one breaths funny at all then I would notice compared to the others. I think that is a great idea!!Yes, great idea, but again not essential. You should be able to detect a noticeable change in performance of a particular reg if you dive it enough to know how it 'should' perform.
I want to learn as much as I can so as I plan on spending all of this money that I am going to spend I have a really good plan of attack for what equipment to aquire next, and why. I don't want any regrets (like that junk probe lx I bought)There may always be some regrets. You may buy something, really like it, use it for a period of time, then decided you want something else and 'regret' buying whatever it was in the first place. Or, your tastes just change. I bought a used OMS SS BP, with a deluxe harness, a couple of years ago, Didn't really like it at first, but was too lazy to sell it. Decided to try it one last time on a FL trip, liked it more, and now it is the only thing I dive with my DS, because of the quick release buckles (definitely not DIR on that one) that allow me to get out of my suit easily at the end of a dive. At one point, I liked having the separate chest strap that the harness comes with, now I don't use it.

[c6six]

I really appreciate all the help everyone. I know that I'm going a bit over the top here. But again, I just want to make as many good decisions as possible. Looks like I'm going to hold off on getting the Worthington 130's. I got an email from my local shop that someone is selling a set of twins......

" The tanks are Faber low pressure steel OMS 112, with OMS bands and isolation manifold. The original hydro date is 2004. The tanks will have a current visual inspection and cleaned for NITROX service."

vs the cost of new kind of hard to go wrong don't you think??
Anyone have a comment about these tanks??

Also I have a question about fins. Are scuba pro jet fins the only way to go?? Is there anything else that is DIR acceptable?? I have Sherwood Kinesis 12's right now.

Oh and if I wanted to get rid of my Oceanic Probe LX what is the best way of doing that ebay?? Since my shop isn't much interested in taking it in on trade or anything.

[Colliam7]

Anyone have a comment about these tanks??Low pressure steels are a matter of some 'discussion' -some love them, others don't. The 112s (presume they are 2640psi working pressure, not 2400) are about the same external dimensions and weight as HP130s, but are 112cf not 130cf. One possible advantage you may hear is that you can overfill a low pressure tank (e.g. to 3000 psi) and end up with more gas than you do with HPs. Some shops will do that, others won't The issue will be price. It will cost somewhere in the $850 - $1000 range to double up a set of new 130s, when you add in valves, bands, manifold, etc. If you can get the 112s for less than $500, it would be a good deal; $500-600 would still be OK; much beyond that and I would lose my enthusiasm. I am not sure what 'cleaned for Nitrox service' means. 'Cleaned for oxygen service' would imply something specific, although at your stage, it wouldn't yet offer particular advantage.
Also I have a question about fins. Are scuba pro jet fins the only way to go?? Is there anything else that is DIR acceptable?? I have Sherwood Kinesis 12's right now.The recommendation is for 'stiff blade fins' with attachment springs rather than plastic buckles. SP jets happen to be the way a lot of people go. Others like Turtle fins, or Rocket Fins. Probably, the bigger considerations involve using a fin that has spring straps rather than plastic buckles, is comfortable for the diving YOU do, and fits the boots on your exposure suit. I personally use Jets with my drysuit, and Mares Quattros with my wetsuit, and like both. As your rig evolves, you might want to try some other fins (e.g. 'borrow' fins that your dive buddies use to see how you like them) before making a different purchase.
if I wanted to get rid of my Oceanic Probe LX what is the best way of doing that ebay?? Since my shop isn't much interested in taking it in on trade or anything.eBay is probably as good as any other site. Unfortunately, you may need to be prepared for it to sell for considerably less than what you paid for it, if you purchased it new. The only used one on eBay right now isn't selling at $250, and there are lots of new ones listed. The market for used jacket BCDs does not appear to be terribly robust.

[battles2a5]

I dig Salvo's lights. Great service, great lights and they use Brightstar bulb (so does and Dive Rite) which is really quite tough compared to the Welch-Allyn in the Halcyon. BUT!!! if the price is right snatch it up! Just take care of the head. GOOD CARE. HID bulbs are not cheap.

On another note, a 10w will get you going... but in todays market save a little more cash and get somthing bigger. Most every one has a 21w, or bigger like 25 and 50

Dive Rite uses Welch-Allyn bulbs, not Brightstar. They are fragile, which is why you get the coozy for the light head and a storm case. Salvo lights are much more durable, just toss it in the dive bag and go.

[c6six]

Well looks like I lost out on those tanks. I guess they got sold the morning I was going to come down and give him money for them. They wanted 500$.

I guess I'll wait and save for a Salvo light then too. What is a good all around size the 21w HID I would assume?? What about going l.e.d.?? I see that my dealer has Green Force, but I guess people don't like them as well because of the twist on thing. Makes hard for signaling and such, is that right??

I will wait and see if I can try a few different brands of blade fins.

Back on the tank note, I read that the lp tanks can be proffered as when you fill them with different mix's your mix is more accurate at a lower pressure. Also often you can get lp overfilled allot of the time. Meaning that the lp 112's would hold about 150 at 3,ooopsi. The hp 130's would hold less than 112 at 2640psi.

I know this has been touched a bit, but what is the better way to go?? Or isn't there one??

[ianr33]

As regards tanks, a low pressure 104 is "essentially" the same tank as a HP 130.

In an ideal world I would probably get the 130's but in practice I have a set of 104's.

Why? I bought them used for $600 which is a heck of a lot cheaper than new 130's would have been. Only possible downside to 104's is some places might not fill them to a "good" ! pressure.
Cave country is not a problem in this respect.
Have you ever picked up a set of 104's/130's ?

As for a primary light I have a 10W Dive Rite. Works fine for me. If you have a trust fund a 21W might be nice but its really not needed. Whatever you choose either get a focussable light or one with a very narrow fixed beam.

How much are you expecting to spend on gear and initial technical training?

[c6six]

I've picked up a set of hp 100's, I know with the 130's I'll be adding another 20 lbs, but I'm young and sturdy enough to lug them around. That and I'm sure I could use the extra gas.


The light I'm going to wait a while on, but what about Solus??

I'm taking a dry suit course the end of May, and possible buying a close to new suit. That not included in my cost I'm looking at spending 1,500 - 2,000 in the next 2-3 months.

I have:
-2 apeks xtx 100's, which I have hoses for already.

-a suunto vytec (another place I could have saved money, if I had really done my research) which will be a good bottom timer / depth gauge. getting a wrist mount for it from deep sea supply.

-suunto sk7 compass, getting a wrist mount for it from deep sea supply.

-a couple of princeton tec lights will have to do for now.


What I'm getting:
-back plate and wings 30-40# single 60# double, ( 1,200$ ish)

Thoughts on getting:
-hp130's (1,000$ ish) doesn't leave much room

-an al 40, and al 80, (320$ ish) now hear me out on this one, the reason I am thinking about this is I can use the 80 for back gas now, and the 40 as stage/deco, gives me a chance to get some dives in w/ dry suit, and practice w/ a stage at my side b4 throwing doubles right at me. Then when I get doubles I would have 80 and 40 for stage / deco's. My only questions about this is how many people really use 80's for stage / deco's? This way would save me a little cash for right now.



I was set on the 40# lift singles rig, I read on GUE that 30# should be all you need. So I should go w/ 30 #??

[syntaxerrorsix]

Have you completed a single dive since this thread began?

I'm thinking that would be your best bang to buck ratio, as well as the most pertinent.

Equipment cannot replace experience, as long as what you have is serviceable or you have the ability to rent gear you should be diving. No sense in asking someone else what will work for you when all they really know is what works for them :)

[c6six]

Have you completed a single dive since this thread began?

I'm thinking that would be your best bang to buck ratio, as well as the most pertinent.

Equipment cannot replace experience, as long as what you have is serviceable or you have the ability to rent gear you should be diving. No sense in asking someone else what will work for you when all they really know is what works for them :)


Nope, not a single dive. I thought there was going to be a dry suit class at the beginning of this month, but it got moved to the end. So until then no diving, as after the class I'm buying a dry suit.

I am getting the back plate and wing b4 the class. Also I just want to have an idea of the equipment am / should be looking at in the future. The rate at which I get the equipment is certainly always going to be 2nd to diving. Hence not buying the dry suit till after the class, only buying the backplate and wing b4 the class, cause I don't think it would go all that well in BCD I have now.

The reason for all of this questioning now, so early in the game! Is simply that I know how I operate. If I don't have a good idea of what I want a while before I get there, then as I get there, or near that level I will jump on a piece of equipment, or a "good deal." Examples of this would be my current BCD, Suunto Vytec (money that could have been much better spent). I'm the first one to admit that I am getting considerably ahead of myself with equipment information. Getting ahead like that gives me a sense of security though. Certainly not in my diving skills, I know gear doesn't make the diver. I just don't want to make many more equipment mistakes.

[syntaxerrorsix]

Getting ahead like that gives me a sense of security though. Certainly not in my diving skills, I know gear doesn't make the diver. I just don't want to make many more equipment mistakes.

Having information ahead of time can certainly be a good thing.

Maybe I should have rephrased my statement. The more you dive the more you will find what works best for you. Have you considered renting / borrowing any of the above mentioned equipment to gain some insight? Can you dive now without the dry suit and class?

Just as having the information on what to buy is important, having experience with the equipment before you drop all your loot on it is as well.

Forums are a great place for opinions :D

[c6six]

I live in upstate NY, so the Water temp is a little too cold for my 3mm right now. I am a bit cold blooded so I can dive in the low 60's for a good 40 minutes w/ the 3mm, and still be "comfortable"(alive). So after the dry suit class I can see about hooking up w/ someone to dive w/ up here. The woman isn't much a fan of the cold water and low vis.

Also the instructor I would be doing my tech training w/ will be at the St. Lawrence doing a tech class while I am doing my dry suit. With any luck I can get to know him a bit better and hopefully he won't mind taking me under his wing, as I don't yet know many divers in my area yet.

As for the renting thing, I haven't thought allot about it, but I'm sure I would be smart to take your advice. I'll see what my shop will let me rent.

[c6six]

Well I got my back plate and wings Thursday last week. I ended up w/ the eclipse 30# and the 55# explorer. The dealer I got them from didn't have any evolves at the time and I got a "deal" on the explorer. I wasn't totally sold on either horse shoe or dough nut style anyways, although I had planned on going w/ dough nut.

I called my Uncle who has an outdoor pool he said the water temperature was about 60 so I figured why not!! I went down to the lds and got a set of 100's and an al 80 (to practice as a stage).

Friday night wasn't bad, it was warm all day right around 70. I didn't get into the pool until 7pm though after setting up all of my gear. I didn't get out until 10:15. After the 1st 1/2 hr. I thought I was doing pretty well so I grabbed the Stage bottle...... Eh, could use a bit more practice w/o that I guess. But after about another 1.5 hours I could manage the al 80 at my side. The coldest water temp I saw was 57. I don't know if the cold didn't bother me in my 3mm because I was just so excited or because there is no current at all in the pool, or just what, but I wasn't cold once! Just a great big grin in a dirty pool that had just been treated!!

Saturday afternoon I spent just over 2hrs in the pool after making some more changes to my webbing.

Sunday I spent just under 2 hrs in the pool. This day felt the coldest It was in the mid 40's air temp, and raining off and on.

What an awesome experience though. Although the pool is only like 9' deep.

Does anyone know a good website that shows how to set up your webbing correctly. I had a website that I thought I had bookmarked, or maybe it was a link off one of my bookmarks. Now I can't find it. I think I did pretty well although it will take allot time to be able to simple get really comfortable right down to where everything is and clipping thing off smoothly with one hand.

[robin><((((*>]

The first test in deciding whether or not you are ready for technical diving goes as follows: 1. Walk into bathroom. 2. Open wallet. 3. Fetch largest bill. 4. Drop in toilet. 5. Flush and repeat steps 1-4. If you can handle this without cringing, you are ready for tech diving :)

I think you'll like your 130's. They are great tanks, trim out very well, and you'll have oodles of gas. While you are getting used to the equipment you will be able to get two recreational dives on them so no need for multiple sets on the boat and not switching tanks between dives. They are heavy but you'll get used to them.

As for the BP/wing, I have no problem w/ the quality or function of Halcyon gear but it is just way overpriced for my tastes. I'm not going to shell out the cash for an "H" on my gear when I can get just as good if not better gear from Agir, DSS, Oxycheq, etc., etc.

You will be happy with Bare. I dive a DUI myself, but dive with some folks who own Bares and they love them.

Take the time you need to gather gear to work on your skills. You don't need to be in a technical environment to work on the skills that you need to be successful in a technical environemnt. Bouyancy and trim needs to be spot on. Ascents and descents need to be very controlled, especially your ascent through shallow water (30 to 20, 20 to 10). Good buddy and environment awareness, communication, and the ability to plan a dive and execute that plan. All this stuff can be practiced on any dive and so take advantage of the time you have before now and the start of your training.

Find a good mentor! It is good to have a sounding board while you are working through issues and you won't have the pressure to perform that might have with an instructor. Just make sure you find someone who is doing the kind of dives that you want to be doing.

Good luck w/ your transition and congrats on the decision. As with many other things in life, it's all about the journey and not just the destination.
repeat steps 1-4....... the best impartation of wisdom that I have read so far on scubaboard....I have found the transition from step 5 back to step one to be the most difficult...start all over again.... just had a custom dui suit made for me, off the rack suits did not fit well cha ching!!

[Blackwood]

I would not worry about argon until you get into trimix diving. There is very little (if any noticeable) difference between air/nitrox and argon in the suit.

Putting helium into your suit however does suck.

Mat.


I say get the argon setup with the suit. The cost is in the noise compared to the rest of his expenses.



Used bottle, argon reg, hose, soft-mount: 200-250 bucks

Being able to add air to your suit when your tech instructor inevitably decides to be an ass and simulates a left-post failure: priceless

[Flightlead]

I called my Uncle who has an outdoor pool he said the water temperature was about 60 so I figured why not!! I

I didn't get into the pool until 7pm though after setting up all of my gear. I didn't get out until 10:15. After the 1st 1/2 hr. I thought I was doing pretty well so I grabbed the Stage bottle...... Eh, could use a bit more practice w/o that I guess. But after about another 1.5 hours I could manage the al 80 at my side. The coldest water temp I saw was 57. I don't know if the cold didn't bother me in my 3mm because I was just so excited or because there is no current at all in the pool, or just what, but I wasn't cold once! Just a great big grin in a dirty pool that had just been treated!!

holy ice cubes in your SAC my friend. over 3 hours in below 60 degree water in a 3mm! :confused:

YIKES! I get chilled after 45 minutes or so in water that temperature in a 7mm with hood and gloves!

Perhaps you can save money on the dry suit my friend :D

[c6six]

I had a hood too (looking back I think I forgot to mention that), and I did say the coldest I saw on my vytec was 57, I saw it as high as 63.

also does anyone think the fact of being in a pool w/ no current had anything to do with it??

I'm sort of wondering if I could get by w/ a heavy neoprene easy enough. That would certainly be cheaper. I didn't believe I would have been so comfortable in that water for that long. Course if you told me I would have a big grin in that dirty shallow water I would have called you nuts too. I think most of it had to do w/ the novelty of being new. If I were to have done it in my old probe lx there is no way I could have lasted that long, I would be thinking about how cold it was instead of what I was doing.

[Flightlead]

I had a hood too (looking back I think I forgot to mention that), and I did say the coldest I saw on my vytec was 57, I saw it as high as 63.

also does anyone think the fact of being in a pool w/ no current had anything to do with it??

I'm sort of wondering if I could get by w/ a heavy neoprene easy enough. That would certainly be cheaper. I didn't believe I would have been so comfortable in that water for that long. Course if you told me I would have a big grin in that dirty shallow water I would have called you nuts too. I think most of it had to do w/ the novelty of being new. If I were to have done it in my old probe lx there is no way I could have lasted that long, I would be thinking about how cold it was instead of what I was doing.

depends on the diving you are going to be doing. remember neoprene compresses and looses buoyancy and insulating ability with depth. Beyond 80 feet in an off the rack 7mm suit you are really in a 1.5mm suit. even with rubatex you are at a disadvantage deeper than that. it really starts to have an effect on longer dives.

if your dives are going to be shallower then a well fitting suit, possibly a semi-dry, with good pockets might be an option for you. a good custom suit is only 50% more than I paid for my thick d/s undergarments :-)

the suit you use really depends on the mission you are trying to accomplish.

[c6six]

I realized neoprene compressed under depth. I guess I didn't put 2 and 2 together and think about it's insulation properties at depth. Since I am looking to go deeper for longer I should stay with the dry suit.

[Blackwood]

I realized neoprene compressed under depth. I guess I didn't put 2 and 2 together and think about it's insulation properties at depth. Since I am looking to go deeper for longer I should stay with the dry suit.

Not to mention that a drysuit has the advantage of offering redundant buoyancy.