Dry Suit Choice

[longraven]

Presently I own an off the rack men’s Gates. I like the suit well enough but the overall fit does not. Up until now, it has been okay to dive with for mediocre wreck penetrations. I am upgrading my training beginning with DIR Fund., followed by Tech1 and Cave1. My "gear to get" list is long.

After trying on many off the rack suits, I have come to realize that a custom suit is may be my only option. A female at 5'10, 135 lbs, size 4 bottoms, and 8 through the chest and shoulders is not afforded many other lesser expensive options.

Having in mind my intended course of training, my question is;

I'm taking a poll.

DUI or Diving Concepts? Please list why or why not and any other options I should consider.


Ann

[detroit diver]

longraven once bubbled...
Presently I own an off the rack men’s Gates. I like the suit well enough but the overall fit does not. Up until now, it has been okay to dive with for mediocre wreck penetrations. I am upgrading my training beginning with DIR Fund., followed by Tech1 and Cave1. My "gear to get" list is long.

After trying on many off the rack suits, I have come to realize that a custom suit is may be my only option. A female at 5'10, 135 lbs, size 4 bottoms, and 8 through the chest and shoulders is not afforded many other lesser expensive options.

Having in mind my intended course of training, my question is;

I'm taking a poll.

DUI or Diving Concepts? Please list why or why not and any other options I should consider.


Ann

I saw a Diving Concepts drysuit today, and was not impressed at all. The material was nice, but there were absolutely NO stretch panels under the armpits and in the inseam where you need them. On the other hand, the new stretch undergarments they make are incredible. Warm and stretchy-nothing better.

I like my Bare Trilam. It's not perfect, but it has a lot of the nice features you need on a drysuit.

DUI makes a nice suit, but the costs can be really out of this world. Even some of the DUI suits don't have the stretch capabilities that you need.

There's a lot of things you learn while in the DIRF class. One that might help you out now (and save you some money later) is that the bottom of the pocket should be no lower than where your hand is stretched out straight down (while standing upright). Bellows pocket on right outer thigh, gusset pocket on left outer thigh. Most suits do not come this way.

[longraven]

TKS (Thanks) in Detroit,

I reasearched suits for many months before I bought the Gates. Bear was one of the suits that ended up on the cutting room floor. Honestly, I can remember why, except that I heard naysayers speak poorly of them.

Stech where you need it...Definately for the valve drills. I'm pretty flexible and find I'm restricted in the Gates which makes it difficult to reach the valves.

The thing that turns me off about the D.C. suits is the material doesn't seem to be very durable. I will also be using the new suit in wrecks. I don't think they have pockets either standard or optional either.

Maybe I'm asking too much but I'd prefer not having to buy one suit for each dive environment. I'd like a well rounded, comfortable fitting suit for whatever environment I choose to dive.

Chicks have it tough when it comes to fit.

Pockets...Do you have D-rings sewn in yours? Were they standard with the suit or added later?

Ann

[trymixdiver]

Id say DUI

1. they are in your neck of the woods and they have a great rep and product.

2. Get the custom if u have the $ not too many people fit a stock DUI, i dont had to get the SS 450.

3. If your gonna be hard core DIR i think the only DUI suit you can use is the TLS 350. correct me if i am wrong all you DIR divers. I am wouldnt use this suit for serious wreck diving though.

I am not familar with the DC suit i am no help there.

Andy

Reguarding pockets:

With a SS DUI u get 3 options of your choice, i chose Bellows pockets on the Right and Left, and Kev knee pads. There are D rings inside the pockets already, i didnt need to add anything, it was dive ready when i opened the box.

The pockets are done very well i was more than happy with them.

[sheck33]

trymixdiver once bubbled...


3. If your gonna be hard core DIR i think the only DUI suit you can use is the TLS 350. correct me if i am wrong all you DIR divers. I am wouldnt use this suit for serious wreck diving though.




That is not true. Someone told me the same thing, i wondered about it and asked one of the top GUE instructors. :)

[trymixdiver]

I may be wrong, but i asked GI himself about this before i made my choice on a drysuit. Unless my memory is going he uses the tls 350.

Andy


anyone know any diff ?

[detroit diver]

trymixdiver once bubbled...
I may be wrong, but i asked GI himself about this before i made my choice on a drysuit. Unless my memory is going he uses the tls 350.

Andy


anyone know any diff ?

Andy,

Unless you're going to be a WKPP diver, don't worry about what they specifically use there for a drysuit. There are a number of suits that will work in DIR diving. Flexibility is one of the strong selling points of these suits, as is zipper placement. All learned in a DIRF class.

Ann,

My pockets didn't come with attachment points. I had to put them in. I use a loop of bungee.

[Bob3]

Just wondering, which model of GATES suit are you using there Ann?

GUE is supposedly going to be "defining" their equipment requirements for the DIR-F, might want to hold off 'till the new list comes out.

(don't know if "defining" is the proper word, check out the original post):

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22924

[longraven]

Bob 3

Thanks for your reply. It is a VSN Pro 1100. Thanks for the link to the DIR Gear re-assessment thread?

In Detroit... (Burrrrrrrr)
Spoken like a true diplomat. My problem is I'm looking at all of them closely and can't make up my mind. I'm inclined to agree with Bob on this. Hold off until I get through DIRF to see if what I have suits. I'd hate to switch gear in the middle of the course of instruction just in case I get all FUBR'ed and my skills suffer with new stuff .

Trimix....
DIR is a means to an end. However, I don't intend to sit on the fence. I haven't seen any DIR folks who aren't hard core, eventhough my experience is limited. The training I like, some of the tudes (See GUE member posts) rub me the wrong way. I'm guessing/hoping that is an exception to the rule. I'm in it all the way... Good news about the pockets. I've seen some DUI owners struggle with poor workmanship/quality add on's.

Ann

[O-ring]

longraven once bubbled...
Bob 3

Thanks for your reply. It is a VSN Pro 1100. Thanks for the link to the DIR Gear re-assessment thread?

In Detroit... (Burrrrrrrr)
Spoken like a true diplomat. My problem is I'm looking at all of them closely and can't make up my mind. I'm inclined to agree with Bob on this. Hold off until I get through DIRF to see if what I have suits. I'd hate to switch gear in the middle of the course of instruction just in case I get all FUBR'ed and my skills suffer with new stuff .

Trimix....
DIR is a means to an end. However, I don't intend to sit on the fence. I haven't seen any DIR folks who aren't hard core, eventhough my experience is limited. The training I like, some of the tudes (See GUE member posts) rub me the wrong way. I'm guessing/hoping that is an exception to the rule. I'm in it all the way... Good news about the pockets. I've seen some DUI owners struggle with poor workmanship/quality add on's.

Ann
I have a DUI CLX450 and I like it pretty well. My buddies have everything from Andy's, Diving Concepts, DUI TLS350's, 450s, etc. IMHO, try them out and see what works for you. I would not buy a suit based on an agency's published gear list, but would take my own experience, the experience of my buddies, the experience and recommendations of seasoned divers in your local conditions, and price into account. However, I did not own a drysuit when I took DIRF and they gave an EXCELLENT analysis of drysuits, undergarments, and drysuit diving technique that I was very glad to have experienced before I plunked down that kind of cash on my own suit.

A couple things in your poll that I feel I can speak to:

What are other options to DUI or Diving Concepts?
Andy's, White's, Viking, Scubapro, FifthD, there are others...

Why or Why not DUI?
DUI makes a great suit...but they are expensive..

Are there any weight considerations?
Neoprene will change buoyancy with depth and generally requires more weight.

Is DUI TLS appropriate for cave or tech diving?
Yes..

Is Flex 50/50 appropriate for cave or tech diving?
Yes..

Are intergrated pockets better? Why or Why not?
IMHO, yes...at least from my experience with DUI. They do an awesome job of attaching the pockets and they are in the right place. You can do it yourself, but it is a PITA and won't hold up as well as the DUI attachment method. Not sure about other manufacturers..

Is crushed neoprene better for this type of diving?
Crushed neoprene is very durable, but is very heavy and dries very slowly.

Good luck!

[Bob3]

Thought you might've had a vulcanized suit there for a minute, like the ProAm 1050.
There was a side-by comparison between your VSN & a 50/50 at Divernet in the UK:
http://www.divernet.com/gear/dtstxtra399.htm
I suspect the DUI may be higher priced here in the US because of the "structured price schedule" (aka price fixing) that takes place here in the US.
Offhand the Gates appears to be more suit for less $$.
The CF200 crushed neoprene suits actually hold up well in a commercial diving environment, something not seen in sport suits.

[WYDT]

Team members (wkpp) aren't required to use TLS350 but it is preferred. Some team members I know dive the CLX450 and all that I know of dive DUI suits, not sure if it's required or not though.

I have a TLS350 and it's a great suit but will develop small pinhole leaks that have to be fixed from time to time but I guess any trilam suit can do this as well. Also if you get a DUI specify a SI Tech dump valve. The ones that come on the suits now are crapola. They will do the si tech dump at no additional charge, so I hear.

Hope this helps!

[longraven]

WYDT

It does, Thanks

Do you recommend wrist or shoulder dump valve?

Ann

[WYDT]

longraven once bubbled...
WYDT

It does, Thanks

Do you recommend wrist or shoulder dump valve?

Ann

Team members have the dump on the right shoulder for ease of dumping while scootering. If you have no intention of becoming a team member or scooter diving in deep caves or elsewhere then the stock left shoulder position is fine. Mine is in the stock left position and I've had no problems at all...

[Mo2vation]

Hey Annie - cool thread.

With you being in Low Cal, I would think going with DUI is a no brainer. I'm in So Cal (Marina Del Rey) and after trying on about a zillion suits, and diving about 4 or 5, DUI's geographic proximity was a huge vote in their favor.

My wife is an OTR medium. My body type is pretty funky so no way for OTR - I had to go custom. Jaye went with the 350 - I went with the 50/50.

After diving 7mm for years, the tri-lams felt too confining with no stretch. The stretch in the bottom section of the 50/50 (its the CF200 material) plus its durability (I roll around in the surf and the rocks chasing lobsters for a third of the year) made it feel so much less confining when doing the knee bends and stretches as I checked for sizing. It just felt better.

The top of the 50/50 is a tough Polyester - so it also has some stretch to it (unlike the 450 Cordura)...overall, its tough, comfy and because of the stretch, I could have it cut a little closer. For what I do, it was the best choice.

If I had to do it again, I would have gotten the wrist dump... makes it easier to dump at will, you know...? No rolling over, no getting semi-vertical, etc.

You should go by DUI - they're great about visitors. Call them and see when their next Demo Days is and go and dive through the line, then pick the best one.

K

[large_diver]

Ann,

I would agree with the comments posted by O-Ring about waiting. When I took DIRF last summer, the instructors spent a fair amount of time discussing exposure protection (most of this was focused on drysuits), including discussion of undergarments, drysuit fit, key features to look for in a drysuit, etc., etc. They spent time looking at each of the drysuits worn by students in the class, and provided specific commentary on what was good and not so good about each model.

I think DUI (TLS 350 and 450) was probably the brand worn by more people in the class than any other single brand, including many of the instructors/interns.

That being said, Andrew Georgitsis (our lead instructor) did fault the DUI suits for at least a couple of things, mainly the routing of the zippers on the self-donning models as well as the the way in which some of the seams are sewn. In general, these seemed to be relatively minor issues -- DUI obviously makes great dry suits -- but it is something to keep in mind.

On one hand, it is nice to have all the gear you will be using on an ongoing basis for the class, so that you can put your rig through the active critiqueing that goes on during DIRF. At the same time, I would hate to drop big $$$ on a piece of gear that: (1) May be "dissed" during the class; or (2) you don't have time to practice and get comfortable with prior to the class.

My $0.02 -- good luck.

-Chris

[JeffAustin]

I have a DC ultraflex (5th D 1000). My suit has stretch under the arms due to the fabric bias. What it doesn't have is seams under the armpits, which really do limit the fabric stretching (and reaching valves!). The trilaminate material dries quickly(an hour or two), and isn't heavy when it is wet. The trilaminate material is pretty heavy duty, I have camera bags made out of the same material, and they are bombproof. I guess if you are wedging yourself into small openings on a wreck, you could tear most any fabric, though. Should that be your main concern? I don't know. My suit functions well, has bellows pockets on the thighs that accomodate dryglove rings, is self donning(ft. zip) and fits good. It is more comfortable than my old 7 mil neoprene wet or drysuits. With the DC TPS undergarment, I use a 12 lb. weight belt with a BP/W and 95 steel tank. Good luck with your search.

[DIR Tec Diver]

I have a DUI TLS350 Signature Series, and I love it. I have never had a better suit, and I have had a lot!

I live in Finland, so all my diving is with a dry suit, and I have gone through a Polar 905 (Dive Rite), Ursuit and Viking, and none compare to the DUI. Yes I am a tec diver, and my original decision was based a lot on my friend George Irvine's recommendations, but after buying the suit, I can see why this is the #1 suit of choice by the worlds best tec divers.

Not to mention the suit used by Navy SEALs, Marine Force Recon, CG Rescue Swimmers etc. That should also be a good indicator

[O-ring]

DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
I have a DUI TLS350 Signature Series, and I love it. I have never had a better suit, and I have had a lot!

I live in Finland, so all my diving is with a dry suit, and I have gone through a Polar 905 (Dive Rite), Ursuit and Viking, and none compare to the DUI. Yes I am a tec diver, and my original decision was based a lot on my friend George Irvine's recommendations, but after buying the suit, I can see why this is the #1 suit of choice by the worlds best tec divers.

Not to mention the suit used by Navy SEALs, Marine Force Recon, CG Rescue Swimmers etc. That should also be a good indicator

[Pez de Diablo]

I see SSI Diver O2 happening all over again....

[King Kong Matt]

Pez de Diablo once bubbled...
I see SSI Diver O2 happening all over again....

If only...

We couldn't get that lucky and have that much fun on a Tuesday...

[longraven]

DIR Tech Diver,

Thanks for the reply from Finland.

I did go with the DUI. Thanks to all the input from everyone.

I'm selling my Gates VSNPro1100 to help fund this little shopping spree of mine. Most of my buddies are frothing at the mouth (even though they have their own DUI's) at the thought of someone getting new gear let alone a new DUI. You'd think it was like wearing a Versace gown or something except you can't wear a pair of pumps with a dry suit (you'd have to be a chick to understand that one...It's a good thing). Or, maybe not???

Anyway, my DIRF class is the end of this month and sadly the DUI won't be ready as I had to go custom $$$. I'm taking DIR Cave1 down in Akumal, Mx the end of Oct. (There is one spot open if any one is interested. The price goes down if you have a team of 3. Visit the site below for details.) and have a bit more items to add to my pelican case (anyone know a good mortgage broker).

I'm just getting into all of this and trying to absorb as much as I can. If you dive cold water, what manifold and regs (primary, backup and stage) are you using? Were they GI certified?

http://www.dir-mexico.com/home.htm

[DIR Tec Diver]

I am planning to head to Mexico in June. Let me know how it is!

[longraven]

We'll do...Anywhere in the water and not working can't be anything but all good.

Annie

[WYDT]

longraven once bubbled...
wear a pair of pumps with a dry suit
http://www.dir-mexico.com/home.htm

Ok, now you've got some weird images going around in my mind!!! ;)

[longraven]

Welp, I guess how I can see that could have been taken out of context. I was referring to DIRTech comment about letting him know how Mx. is. It's all good...:D

[Mo2vation]

Annie -

Are you referring to MHK's So Cal DIR/F class at the end of March? Avalon, the whole 9? Several of us So Cal Boarders (Borders..?) are going to that class. If that's it, see you there!

K

Glad you went with the DUI - you'll LOVE it. Which one did you roll with?

[WYDT]

longraven once bubbled...
Welp, I guess how I can see that could have been taken out of context. I was referring to DIRTech comment about letting him know how Mx. is. It's all good...:D

Actually the "wild image" had nothing to do with Mexico, that was accidentally left in when I quoted your post.... it's the hot chick in a drysuit with pumps on that... uhh nevermind... ;)

[longraven]

WYDT


The pumps might go nicely with a single tank ensamble, but once I graduate to doubles I'll have to trade in for a pair of jets.



Take care and keep laughing...