Outdoor Adventure show

[Mikiko]

Well the show is over now and I was just wondering how many people went and what they thought of the show.

If it was up to you what would you want to see changed or added for next years show?

[pufferfish]

The show overall was interesting. I found a few non-dive products and outfits I will likely follow up with. As for the dive part of the show it was nice to just get out and chat about diving in the middle of winter. It was also nice to have the DAN booth there to pick up a few books and supplies thus saving on shipping.

Some of those dive shop displays though, yuk. One of them was about six by ten feet full of junk, no lighting, and people just walked by. Some of those owners need a few lessons on presentation. I'd say Aquarius had the best presentation. Clean looking, well lit, and friendly staff. Interesting one of the shop owners said he was there soley to advertise his shop and not sell gear,..interesting take on the utility of the show.

It would be nice to see a few more beefy scuba talks next year but in the middle of February I'll go no matter what just to chat about diving next summer :)

[Silverback]

The show overall was interesting...

Meet up with a few folks that I don't normally see till the actual dive season.

Booths were quite small with the exception of a couple of them. Aquarious, Dive Source, and of course S2K. Content in all of them was average.

I did like the Steam Machine booth. Great rebreather the topaz. Little on the pricey side, but I guess you get what you pay for.

I'd like to see some more info on the technical side of things. Other then seeing a couple of booths with a set of twins setup for display, that was about it. No lighting, no DPV's, no mixing hardware, didn't see any representation from IANTD, TDI or .. and yes, I'll say it... the DIR folks. (oh is that going to start a flurry of messages)...

Anyway, just my two cents....

SB

[Butch103]

from the sounds of things I didn't miss anything........too bad, so sad. Somethings never change....

[weight_for_me]

I'd have to agree with Silverback and Pufferfish. Was hoping to see som Tech/Dir stuff......but sadly it was missing. Met some great people at S2K (Hi Tereasa and Paul...!!) Not a lot of "goodies"...in one booth, 2 staff mambers weren't sure how to inflate a safety saugage!!!
But the really best part was the Scuba demo in the pool. The announcer told how the demo guy was wetting his BC so the 2 (yes, TWO) straps wouldn't come loose...the next thing you know, the tank is dangling off his back...LMAO...that's when I left the pool demo.
BTW, the camping section wasn't too bad.
Would I go again? Probably, but it wouldn't upset me much to miss it either.
Randy...

[Groundhog246]

Show was ok, not great. Will probably go again. Found many of the booths seemed to be primarily seeking students. As soon as they learned you were certified they lost interest. S2K were a little better, they tried to sell me more courses. :D Saw a couple of pieces of newer gear, yes the re-breather was interesting, but out if my $$$ range. Looked at the dry suits in the White's booth (one of the few manufacturers there), 3 guys manning it seemed more interested in their own conversation than answering my questions. It was good to see DAN there. And I did try the rock climbing wall at the back.
Met a couple of divers I know and met a couple of others from here.
I was hoping for something more like the boat show. Some mfg.’s showing new product and giving you info, but not selling directly, but directing you to dealers in your area. Or even shops with some mfg. reps in the booth.

[Christy]

I am fairly new to scuba and thought the show was pretty good. I was there on sunday and I was looking for a new pair of fins and mask. A shop from the Hamilton area had a lot of good sales on and then also had a "make an offer" sign. I bought a great pair of mask, fins and a snorkel for a little over half of what I would of paid normally. :D
I also wish I could get my money back I paid for my OW they were going for alot less and they would give as much pool time as you needed all for free.
I think that there could of been more of the reps from the big companies as well but I guess they were not interested in making there products better known.
There were also good sales in the tent and camping items but I didn't have the money to get in on them. :(
I will go back next year and make sure I bring more money.

Christy

[weight_for_me]

Christy...let me be the first to welcome you to the OFWF's. Glad you enjoyed the show....you'll love the diving even more.:)
Randy...

[Mikiko]

yes, welcome Christy, yes I agree with weight for me you will enjoy diving much more.
I believe the shop you were talking about was the Deep End from Dundas by Hamilton they were at the show and had alot of good deals.
Well welcome again and hope you get under the waves as many times as you wish to.

[seahunter]

Welcome to the board and to scuba Christy!

Everyone needs to realize that this second attempt by the Outdoor Show to attract a scuba component will not attract the big name manufacturers. It's a retail show and is only beneficial to dive stores and not all that beneficial to boot. I've been at this show every year since it started whether there were other scuba stores or not (mostly not!) and at many other shows every year. New exhibiters are often anxious to recoup their investment during the show. It doesn't work that way. As a consumer you need to understand that it costs between $5000 and $10,000 to go to a show. That's an expense that a store doesn't face if he doesn't go so why would you expect the prices to be lower than at his store when he's just spent a lot of extra money? You might be surprised and chagrined to find out that the deals you got were available at your LDS every day - sometimes better. Try this - Go to your LDS and say "I'd like to buy a wet suit from you. Should I buy it today or wait until you're at a show and your expenses are much higher?". Actually it won't always work because some retailers don't appreciate that logic either.

Don't be too upset about your O/W course. As I tell our new divers, almost every quality O/W course costs the same in the end. Every course requires the same expenditure by the store and the new diver pays for it all. The difference is in how it's presented and in what extras are included. A $99 course will cost you $400 in the end. There's no way to avoid it! Find out what the course requires you to have and find a good store that includes it all in the price. Then see what free extras may be available: free use of a pool, disounts on goods and services for new divers, guarantees on the success of the course, options for O/W dives, etc.
This applies to all courses - not just the O/W.

Have fun as you learn more and enjoy scuba.

[Dundas]

While I would agree with Seahunter regarding being careful about the price of dive training courses and looking at the "fine" print, I would have to say that a reputable and a quality dive shop would not change the price of a course for a show, and then remove some of the normal services offered. The price should be cheaper while maintaining the same (exact same) level of service!!

I was pleased to see the Deepend at the Outdoor show, and was extremely pleased to see that the course they offered for $150 was exactly the same as their normal course that is normally offered at $350. I took this course a couple of years ago, and the Deepend's package, which they gave in writing at the show was exactly the same as the full price course. Just at a discounted price for the Outdoor show. This is the way it should be, this is the reason I go to shows, to see the prices AND more importantly to see the true nature of the dive shops. A dive shop that says it has something at special price, should really be at a special price!! without having to read the fine print.

Second thing is that although a dive shop must pay money to be at the show, think of the number of people being exposed to your shop. You do not have on a typcial Saturday, a thousand people coming into your store do you???

When you are at a show, you need to have some good pricing in place. If you have good pricing in place, you will get higher sales which should offset the show costs. AND the key to the show as with day to day business IS REPEAT business!!!!

Again it was great to see the Deepend at this show, as they were able to provide great pricing and great training programs at great prices. THIS is the reason I will be at the show again next year!!

Anyway,... there's my thoughts!@!!

[Groundhog246]

I'm trying to figure out why they'd expect divers to go to the show (or at least return in future years).
* No manufacturers or their reps in a dealers booth (a common way to do it, with the mfg helping pay for the booth as well as providing manpower).
* No "deals" or special prices on equipment or courses.
* Not a lot of info on dive sites other than some travel companies flogging packages (with little info on the dive centers at the other end).
So if you're not someone attending because you might want to take up scuba, there's not much point in attending? Maybe it's time for a road trip to see how the US shows compare.

A the Toronto Boat Show I bought and Autopilot with suggested list of $1800 (although no marine dealer sells for list) for $1199. The dealer had a "Boat Show" special because the manufacturer gave him several units at a discount specifically to offer as a boat show special. I've been in a number of different industry and this type of support is quite normal. It would appear from Seahunter's comments, that the manufacturers and distributers of Scuba gear just flog it out the door on a "here it is, this is how much, have a nice day" basis, with no real desire to increase sales of their make/models.

How many others would have welcomed a coat check and happily paid a buck or two?

[seahunter]

I have probably exhibited at 500 shows over the years.
I do not go to see divers.
I doubt there were a thousand divers there. If so, then there was a greatly disproportionate number of divers at the Outdoor Show compared to the % of divers in the general population.
Our (my store) purpose in going to shows is to attract new people to this great sport. I don't really want my staff to spend much time talking to divers and they're trained that way. We had no intention of trying to sell a lot of gear. The only 'true' special we had was a great price on a quality mask, fin, snorkel package (about 50% off) which of course, was of most interest to new divers or snorkelers. Sure we sold a few scuba units and one or two suits and a few accessories but we would have sold those anyway. However, I suspect we filled 4 or 5 scuba courses and also gave out over 1200 new diver packages to interested people (not divers) who will continue to call for months to come.

Our position is that if you are already a diver, you likely do or will get to our store eventually. I'm not going to spend money to steal divers from other stores and certainly not by dropping prices so I have to struggle to serve them properly.
Realize that a 10% drop in prices requires a 300% increase in sales to break even. Few retailers even understand that. I'd much rather sell 10 divers a computer for $1000 than 100 divers the same computer for $100. It looks good to sell 10 times as many items and the cash in the till is the same but... the 100 divers did not get the same great customer service and I lost money on every item sold.

Our store is open 7 days a week and I'm sure we get 1000 people coming in every week (it sure feels like it some nights!). They get our time, expertise, great service and the same price. Everybody wins. Cram those same 1000 people into 3 hurried days and something's got to give!
Don't try to persuade me that the divers got the same level of service at the Outdoor Show as they'd get at their LDS. And very few of the stores sold enough to pay for their booth from the net proceeds (if that was their intention). Again remember that most of the divers there already had most of their gear!

Again, sorry to disappoint you, we don't go to shows to give certified divers great deals. Come to the store for that. We go to shows to speak to the 25,000 non divers about becoming divers!

It was good to see John at the show Dundas. He started in this business with me and his first store was one of mine. However my previous post still stands. It cost John a lot of money to go to the show. Do you not think he'd have given you an even better 'deal' if he'd not had to spend all that money first? Did you ask him? I haven't spoken to him on this specific topic but I'm willing to bet after all is said and done that he could have stayed in the store last weekend, spent the money for the show on an advertising campaign (something with which John IS an expert) and he'd have more money in the bank today and more to come over the next few weeks and months. Sometimes a store owner gets caught up in all the hype about a 'new' scuba show. They often don't stop to think that the show managers don't give a rat's a.. about the exhibitor's business or whether he sells a lot. They just want the spaces filled and the visitors to come out. It's entirely up to the owner to decide if the investment in time and money is worthwhile.

I don't think in the hundreds of shows I've been to that I ever bought something for myself that REALLY was a great deal for me. It may have been handy and looked like a good price and I was persuaded to buy it even if I didn't actually need it.. but I could have found it for the same or better price elsewhere.

I must have had 40 or 50 coats in the big space behind my booth from divers who stopped to say hi Groundhog. Sorry I missed you. Remember that at another show. We at least, are happy to try to make your visit to the show more comfortable.

[tinman]

I went diving instead...Burleigh viz is now at 35-40 feet, temp. at 30 o F, giant SLIDE entry recommend...

[Christy]

Thank you for the warm welcome everyone.
It is too bad there is not a show for divers then, by the sounds of things there are shows to atract new people into diving...which is good of coarse... but there should be a show to keep divers interested in the sport as well as to show them all the new toys in the biz. I know you can get that from your scuba store in your area but that is only a few of the brands that are out there. I must admit I do like the idea of sales and what I call good deals at the shows but I guess I could also get them at the stores as well. I think that the owners of the stores should see about getting the manufactures more involved in the sport, it seems that they leave it up to the store owners to do all the work and advertising for them. Not fair if you ask me. If you look at any other type of show they would be there.
About time they did it for the dive industry as well.
Well thats my 2 cents for today and thanks again for the warm welcome.

Christy

[pufferfish]

There is a show that divers can attend to see the manufacturers' stuff called the DEMA show held once a year. I have never been and you do have to get on a plane but I hear this is where one can see the latest and greatest in gear.

Seahunter can you comment on this show and its utility for certified divers. Are there good talks, good deals, and all the reps?

[seahunter]

Yep! DEMA is the ultimate dive show.

All the manufacturers, all the dive resorts, all the training agencies and a lot more are there every year.
It's almost a full week of scuba diving. You can see all the newest gear including some that's not even in production.
You can get the info you need to plan a dive trip to any country of the world.
You can talk to the top people of every agency about the newest training courses.
There are seminars and training programs all day every day.

The bad news (or good news depending on your position) is that its a trade show. That is, it's for the industry only - not for divers.
This is where the retailers and manufacturers share products and ideas and set the tone for the next full year of diving.

Divers can only attend if they are involved in the scuba industry (store owner or employee, instructor, travel agent, etc) AND are sponsored by a dive store.
There are no "deals" because there is no retail selling at the show. You cannot buy scuba gear for yourself.
Unlike a retail show there is no discounting because this is a business show for business people.

[Butch103]

As one of our previoous board conversatins went, I repeat and I recollect you agreed to a point with me. It would be nice to have a show such as DEMA for the divers to compare different makes of gear etc in one spot. I will not argue with your cost logic, it is sound. But from a consumer standpoint. It would be great...

[seahunter]

Darn right!! No argument.

I go to the snowmobile show, the bike show, the hobby show, the RV and trailer show, the hunting show and others too.The reason is exactly as you've said - to see all the new stuff and to compare pricing - all in one spot.

IMHO, it won't happen in scuba in Ontario in my lifetime!!