Why does SSI not want to honor the new Red Cross training classes?

[dhunteriii]

I just finished getting recertified at Red Cross for CPR and First Aid. Red Cross now offers blended learing which allows you to do part of the class online and take the tests. Once you have passed the tests you can then go to the local Red Cross chapter and do a 2 hour skills review with a trainer. Once this is complete you get your certification cards. Red Cross says that this training is equivilent to doing the all day course. Now SSI is telling my LDS that they will not honor my Red Cross ceritfications because I did part of it online. My question is why is SSI refusing to honor my certifications even though a Red Cross instructor signed off on my skills? Does SSI believe that they are more qualified than the Red Cross in deciding how classes in CPR/First aide are conducted? According to Red Cross the classes and the skills you learn in them are exactly the same.

[Hallmac]

Keep us Informed.

I find it interesting that it was not accepted. SSI is big on home study courses. Part of their course development is based upon the consistency in instruction the preprinted materials and audio/visual presentation provide. Most on-line training is identical in that format.

[Swampdonkey]

I think the reason SSI won't honor your course, even if the instructor signed off on your skills, you can't prove without a doubt that you wrote your own test and did it without any aid from a book or net source. Look at it this way, you get a paramedic who did all his training on line. He shows he is smart and passes the practical part. In comes a a situation where he needs to call on his book knowledge to save your life but because he did not do his actually work and had used the net to answer his questions on his test, he doesn't recall the information needed to save your life.

I am little shocked that organizations that teach life saving stuff would even go this route of the internet but anyway to make a buck and make it quicker seems to be the way everything is going. I remember the days where speed or convince wasn't everything and in some area's that should still be the norm, such as first aid and cpr courses.

[Thalassamania]

I think the reason SSI won't honor your course, even if the instructor signed off on your skills, you can't prove without a doubt that you wrote your own test and did it without any aid from a book or net source. Look at it this way, you get a paramedic who did all his training on line. He shows he is smart and passes the practical part. In comes a a situation where he needs to call on his book knowledge to save your life but because he did not do his actually work and had used the net to answer his questions on his test, he doesn't recall the information needed to save your life.

I am little shocked that organizations that teach life saving stuff would even go this route of the internet but anyway to make a buck and make it quicker seems to be the way everything is going. I remember the days where speed or convince wasn't everything and in some area's that should still be the norm, such as first aid and cpr courses.He did a skill review with a live trainer and no access to any unauthorized aids, and the Red Cross is not looking to "make a buck."

[Don Wray]

I would think it would be accepted....the Red Cross isn't in the business of just handing out certs.

[Swampdonkey]

So he passed his course ONLINE and did a live review of his skills. Can you tell me without a doubt he did the online course? I am confused why people don't think internet courses are a good thing though? One thing for university and such but in regards to life saving methods and knowledge. You don't want to give anyone a chance to find an end around on that one?

That is just my opinion on this matter.


No idea why the SSI shop won't honor it but that is their call as it is a store run by someone and not SSI.

[scubadale]

Now SSI is telling my LDS that they will not honor my Red Cross ceritfications because I did part of it online. My question is why is SSI refusing to honor my certifications even though a Red Cross instructor signed off on my skills? Does SSI believe that they are more qualified than the Red Cross in deciding how classes in CPR/First aide are conducted? According to Red Cross the classes and the skills you learn in them are exactly the same.


No idea why the SSI shop won't honor it but that is their call as it is a store run by someone and not SSI.

The OP stated that SSI is saying that they will not honor his Red Cross certs. It could be that the LDS is not being honest and that is probably why the OP posted here.

[scubadale]

dhunteriii, how did the LDS know that you completed the blended course?? Is there a difference in the card?

[Geoff_H]

I am little shocked that organizations that teach life saving stuff would even go this route of the internet but anyway to make a buck and make it quicker seems to be the way everything is going. I remember the days where speed or convince wasn't everything and in some area's that should still be the norm, such as first aid and cpr courses.

I am a little shocked someone can think that.

My view is that this guy has proved his skills in a review with a trainer, and that is proof he has the skills and knowledge to pass the course.

It doesn't matter if he learnt via a book, a classroom, the scary internet or he had it directly downloaded to his brain like they did in the Matrix. The fact is he performed the skills well enough to satisfy a Red Cross instructor - and that is enough for me.

[Damselfish]

I'd contact SSI and see if it is really SSI, or just the shop. A shops refusal to honor a Red Cross cert might just be a way of selling their class, assuming they are offering one. Maybe that's not the case here, but the online thing could give them an excuse if they want one.

[dhunteriii]

dhunteriii, how did the LDS know that you completed the blended course?? Is there a difference in the card?


The temporary first aid card that you get when you complete the first aid part of the training says that it was taken online. I went to the local Red Cross yesterday and I told them that I had not received my permenanent card. They apolgized and printed me a new card. The permanent card is like the CPR and AED cards that I have that SSI says they will accept. I turned that into my LDS and they are sending it to SSI. It seems rather stupid that I had to go to the Red Cross to get a permanent card. If I had waited until my permanent card arrived by mail SSI would not have known that this I had done the blended class.

[dhunteriii]

I'd contact SSI and see if it is really SSI, or just the shop. A shops refusal to honor a Red Cross cert might just be a way of selling their class, assuming they are offering one. Maybe that's not the case here, but the online thing could give them an excuse if they want one.

I do not think that it is the shop. They did not have any CPR/First aid classes scheduled anytime soon so they suggested I go to Red Cross.

[dhunteriii]

I think the reason SSI won't honor your course, even if the instructor signed off on your skills, you can't prove without a doubt that you wrote your own test and did it without any aid from a book or net source. Look at it this way, you get a paramedic who did all his training on line. He shows he is smart and passes the practical part. In comes a a situation where he needs to call on his book knowledge to save your life but because he did not do his actually work and had used the net to answer his questions on his test, he doesn't recall the information needed to save your life.

I am little shocked that organizations that teach life saving stuff would even go this route of the internet but anyway to make a buck and make it quicker seems to be the way everything is going. I remember the days where speed or convince wasn't everything and in some area's that should still be the norm, such as first aid and cpr courses.

The coures are the same and Red Cross is not out to make a buck. You still have to demonstrate that you have a mastery of the skill in the skills session to receive your cards. It amazes me how many people want to reject technology because they fear it. At least online learning provides consistancy that you don't get from individual intructors. It is just like diving instruction some teachers are better than others.

[Swampdonkey]

The coures are the same and Red Cross is not out to make a buck. You still have to demonstrate that you have a mastery of the skill in the skills session to receive your cards. It amazes me how many people want to reject technology because they fear it. At least online learning provides consistancy that you don't get from individual intructors. It is just like diving instruction some teachers are better than others.

Sometimes, technology isn't always better and the good old fashion way is more reliable. Again it is my opinion and you clearly seem to think that you have learnt more from a computer that generates questions from a text book over a person who is instructing that could teach just that much more from their experience. Last time I checked, computers go on what they are told and we haven't gotten to the star trek era where computers can think for them selfs and evolve to teach from life experiences.

Sometimes peoples fear to slow down is more dangerous. I guess you like your toys and fun cool ways in doing things.

As for the store, it is any stores right to refuse red cross or st johns as they are not bound by any law to recognize them. So please don't think this is an SSI thing, as clearly the agency does recognize both. The store doesn't.

Cheers

[uncleavi]

It might be time to go to a new LDS.
Call SSI up at 970 482 0883 and ask them what the deal is.

[fisherdvm]

Sometimes, technology isn't always better and the good old fashion way is more reliable.
Cheers

Having taken advanced cardiac life support 8 times the last 19 years, I can tell you that with the way how BLS, ACLS, and other classes are offered today; online courses might actually provide better instruction. Unfortunately, the old fashion way may not exist anymore.

I took an eACLS renewal class, just for the fun of it, about 4 years ago, and completed the practical training in a facility with a live instructor - and it is as good as any instruction I've ever had.

Then I took a live, in person course, 1 year ago, which was the worst course I've ever had. It didn't even qualified to be a course. I complained to the AHA, and they said take it up to the local director, who was the instructor's dad. At the end, they refunded my fee.

I've heard this from EMTs, RNs, and other MDs - these classes are getting so watered down, that it is hard to argue keeping them live. At least with online courses, you will get consistant instruction. Then you do your own homework, and study. And face the same megacode as you do with a live course.

The only first aid course I've ever taken was from PADI, and it was not much to brag about. I'd encourage folks to take CPR/first aid from instructor's who really practice the art - working EMT's or fireman. I probably can teach a course better than any non medical personnel could, but I am not an instructor. It is silly how PADI turn out more EFR instructor's than there will ever be a need for one. I remember reading how one instructor on scubaboard taught only 1 EFR course like the last 3 years. Why even bother maintaining your certificate?

[Geoff_H]

Sometimes, technology isn't always better and the good old fashion way is more reliable. Again it is my opinion and you clearly seem to think that you have learnt more from a computer that generates questions from a text book over a person who is instructing that could teach just that much more from their experience.

Sometimes, technology isn't always worst either. You get consistent delivery, computers are rarely hungover or in bad moods, they never get muddled or mix up words or concepts.

I'm not saying computers (or books, or direct brain downloads) are superior to human teachers - but for simple subjects like basic first aid it's pretty naive to think humans will always do a much better job of teaching and "computer courses" should not be recognised.

There is an additional argument that learning in ones spare time, then doing a 2 hour instructor led assessment will get MORE people trained who would not otherwise have found the spare day needed for a traditional course.

[donooo]

So SSIGuy, time to step up and respond to this one. You've had the weekend off and most of the day to make phone calls. I am anxious to hear a response.

don O

[SSIGuy]

Hey All,

I have been out of my office and not on the web for five days with some rather tough Flu symptoms. As to the question about any on-line CPR/First-aid program we will accept it as long as it is a recognized organization with both local OSHA and federal guidelines. Also the student must do a hands on session with a trainer for it to be valid. I hope this clears this up.

Thanks for your time,

[Thalassamania]

Hey All,

I have been out of my office and not on the web for five days with some rather tough Flu symptoms. As to the question about any on-line CPR/First-aid program we will accept it as long as it is a recognized organization with both local OSHA and federal guidelines. Also the student must do a hands on session with a trainer for it to be valid. I hope this clears this up.

Thanks for your time,I assume that you mean that ARC is acceptable. But you seem to be ducking the question. What do you mean by local OSHA? State OSHA? Is the course in question recognized by SSI or is it not?

[fisherdvm]

Sounds acceptably vague to be a good answer to me. With the gazillion of certifiying agencies, it is hard to recognize one and disrespect another.

I think the bottom line is a "recognized" organization, and that could be recognized, locally, in a state, in a country, or in a branch of service, or governmental agency. Vague enough to allow flexibility in the local or country.

There are plenty of online certificate for both CPR and first aid - and not requiring squat of hands on demonstration. I guess as defined here, it could mean NAUI, PADI, SSI, AHA, ARC, or any locally or nationally recognized organizations.

I guess in the case of the military, it could be C4 combat casualty course with ATLS.

[dhunteriii]

Hey All,

I have been out of my office and not on the web for five days with some rather tough Flu symptoms. As to the question about any on-line CPR/First-aid program we will accept it as long as it is a recognized organization with both local OSHA and federal guidelines. Also the student must do a hands on session with a trainer for it to be valid. I hope this clears this up.

Thanks for your time,
Thank you for taking the time to answer. Does the Red Cross blended learning fall in these guidelines and do you accept it? You do not get the certification cards until you complete the hands on session.

[fisherdvm]

Sounds like it does. I know that the eACLS program I took 2 years ago, if you simply completed the online portion, you get a certificate for like 6 hours of CME credit, that simply stated that you completed the training. Once you completed the hands on portion, then you get a regular ACLS card that does say, eACLS, but also said that it is approved by the AHA. So it is a regular card.

My guess that it is the same with the ARC, that you will get a regular card, just like the fully live teacher version. I don't think one can tell from the card alone.

[DeputyDan]

All I have ever received from the red cross is a temp card!

No problem with the SSI shop.