Advice for new fins

[ToddneyX]

Hi,

New to the forum here. Last year my mask and fin were stolen by car thieves (hmpf), so I'm going to be buying new fins for this summer.

The last couple of fins I have used have been full-foot and paddle based, and very cheap. I don't go scuba diving (yet), but mostly underwater swimming/diving in a lake in Sweden. Mostly for relaxing, but occasionally for looking at fish. Speed is therefore a requirement.

I have been reading about the new split-fins and thought maybe this would be a good idea. I don't do the frog kick, but the standard flutter kick. Would split-fin work with this?

Also, I see that e.g. Tusa Xpert Zoom SF-8 is not full-foot. If I have bare feet, would the clamp mechanism feel uncomfortable?

Any recommendations also would be appreciated. TIA :blinking:

[BKP]

First, welcome to SB, Toddney...

You'll find there's a <passionate> split opinion field here between splits and paddle fins.
To answer your last question first, I wouldn't recommend using open heel fins without booties. They're not designed for bare feet, and you'd probably be uncomfortable, as well as possibly lose a fin.

As for the type of kicking you do, splits are perfect for flutter, and excellent for speed. Atomic Aquatics makes an awesome full-foot split, as does Apollo (originator of the split fin). They're pricey, however, most good splits are.

Best of luck, and dive safe.

[ToddneyX]

Ok thanks for the tips. I won't go for the open-heel design so that narrows down the search abit.

I've seen about the Tusa FF-9 which seem reasonably priced. Can anyone rate this or recommend better ones?

[Orlando Eric]

Oh man the can is open and the worms are crawling out...

I dive splits. THey are longer than the average fin and use a swimmers flutter kick.

I started out diving with Rocket fins and that was a long strong scuba kick.

My peronsal observations of fins. With a strong current the splits do not seem to get me moving head on. If I use a paddle type fin I can muscle through and make headway.

I can beach dive all day with splits and not get cramped up. Paddles make me sore if I have them on all day.

I have not found someone I can not catch underwater yet but I am sure I am not the fastest but they are pretty darn quick.

So it depends, like many things, what you are planning to do.

[David Wilson]

A good fit is the first consideration when purchasing new fins, especially if you are contemplating wearing them barefoot. Fins vary not only according to foot length but also according to foot width. And if you're choosing full-foot fins, they can be worn with fin socks or booties to protect your feet. Just make sure that you buy a pair that will still accommodate your feet when you wear such foot protection. Some full-foot fins are actually designed to be worn with booties, e.g. Japanese-made Apollo Biofins and Gull Mews.

[vel525]

sounds like you are doing more free diving. why not get a set of free diving fins?

[ToddneyX]

Yeah I guess you can call it freediving. But what would be the difference with freediving fins?

[holdingmybreath]

the difference would be great... I've tested different fins with an underwater speedometer, fastest fins are long bladed freediving fins and then the very fastest of the fins is a monofin. I learned that you can be fooled by how a fin feels in the water.. a fin can be easy to kick and still move you right along.. resistance you feel doesn't necessarily translate to speed. Common belief is that full foot fins transfer power to the fin better than an open heel.. a suggestion is to get them 1 size over and get neoprene socks of 3mil to wear. I've also found that in cold water a full foot fin lets less water exchange so they seem to me to be warmer.
As far as splits go for speed.. just check and see what the underwater hockey players are wearing... they have to wear a more standard length fin than a freediving fin and fins like the quattro pros get the nod.

[Shaka Doug]

Aloha ToddneyX,

Have you heard of the new MorFins? I can't say enough god things about these fins. I dive 300 plus dives each year for the past 25 years. For the last year I have been diving with MorFins. I regularly switch fins with my clients in the middle of my dive tours. This gives me a chance to try lots of different brands and styles. EVERY TIME I put on another brand I cannot believe how much harder they are to kick than my MorFins. I really mean it and I have made the dives to prove it. One of the main advantages to MorFins is the smoothness of their design. Do this test. Take any pair of fins and rub them quickly side to side with your hand. You will feel and hear the lines, edges and other molded in features of the fins. Try the same test with MorFins. You will barely feel anything and you won't hear anything either. Where does the feeling and sound come from? That's easy to figure out. It comes from the resistance and friction of the fins. People never consider just how much side to side they do with fins. They buy them thinking they are moving forward all the time. That really isn't the case, especially in hovering and maneuvering around tight areas. The MorFins are slippery, like a fish is. Keep in mind that water is 800 times denser than air....this means that all that friction can be multiplied by up to 800 times! Don't believe me? Try it and see for yourself. I know what I'm talking about.

As far as split fins go, let me ask you a question...When you see a fish underwater with a 'split fin', what is the first thing that comes to mind? Hmm? I know what I think..... Poor fish! He's got a busted fin! (remember Nemo?) How does he manage like that? So now I ask you why would anyone buy a 'busted fin' and take it diving? It makes no sense to me. They buy the fins because they are easy to kick. Just like a bike is easy to pedal in first gear. But you really don't want to stay in first all the time if you plan on getting anywhere, right? My advice is stay away from Split Fins, they are a gimmick. Try the MorFins, they work great. MorFins are very reasonably priced too. Just my .02...

[shoturtle]

I am a neutral person on the split vs paddle, I like both and use both.

The flutter kick is easy with split fins. I have a pair of aeris velocity xp. They are fast and agile when chasing a fish. If you are looking for a not to pricey split fin full foot the tusa xpert zoom, ScubaPro twin speed and oceanic vortex V6. all of them are less the 60 US dollars.

The paddle has more thrust when you encounter currents, you can do more types of kicks. The are generate allot of power. If you want a very fast fin and great acceleration, the mares avanti superchannel full foot. When it comes to paddle fins, I am a big Mares fan. I have the mares avanti. The wife use the Mares quattro excel.

The Mares superchannel full foot got a tester choice for scuba diving mag last year and it is not that expensive.

I would not use an open heel with out booties, the straps can rub badly against you skin and cause a blister. I try using a shoe type boot, and I end up getting a blister on the upper heel from the fin strap. Since then no matter what the water temp is, I will always use a ankle length bootie. Good luck with your fin decision.

[David Wilson]

>Yeah I guess you can call it freediving. But what would be the difference with freediving fins?<

Depends what is meant by "freediving". The term nowadays seems to be used either (a) as a synonym for "snorkelling", i.e. simple surface and underwater swimming with any kind of fins, mask and snorkel without the use of breathing apparatus, or (b) as a highly specialised and occasionally competitive form of breathhold diving requiring intensive training and the use of specialist long-bladed fins, wetsuits, masks and snorkels.

If you're interested in the former, really any fin variety will do the job. Several years ago I snorkelled at La Jolla Cove in Southern California and saw every kind of fin being used, from open-heel scuba and bodysurfing fins to closed-heel fins with varying blade lengths. I'm a fan of all-rubber full-foot standard-bladed fins and I didn't feel out of place wearing them at the Cove. I also wear them for my gentle weekly snorkelling sessions in the North Sea. They're the kind of fins I began snorkelling with back in the early 1960s and I've never wanted to change because they do such a great job.

If you're attracted to the idea of freediving as an intensive, specialist and competitive pursuit, then the current fashion seems to be for hard, closed-heel and long-bladed "bi-fins" made from a variety of synthetic materials to be used. Some freedivers advocate the use of monofins. There is a forum dedicated to freediving and spearfishing here:

DeeperBlue.net Forums - Powered by vBulletin (http://forums.deeperblue.net/)

There is illustrated advice and information about "freediving bi-fins" here:

Fins,Omer Freediving Fins (http://www.extremespearfishing.com/Fins.html)

[ToddneyX]

What does the water temperature effect? I would say it at a maximum of 18C and averaging at around 16C. I am not sure about the current either. In a lake I guess it wouldn't be so great, but the waves can get quite big.

I am not free diving professionally, and do not intend on going really deep. I think I'll go with the split fins as they sound good in terms of saving energy and oxygen.

[holdingmybreath]

water temperature affects the plastic or plastic composite fins the most.. a plastic fin will perform differently in colder water vs. warmer water

split fins.... another one bites the dust..

[shoturtle]

What does the water temperature effect? I would say it at a maximum of 18C and averaging at around 16C. I am not sure about the current either. In a lake I guess it wouldn't be so great, but the waves can get quite big.

I am not free diving professionally, and do not intend on going really deep. I think I'll go with the split fins as they sound good in terms of saving energy and oxygen.

You will do fine with a pair of scuba split fins full foot. And since you are going to be more streamline while diving without gear. The trust and power debate is not as pressing. Two I would not get a pair of free diving design fins, they are super expensive.

If you ever get into scuba you may want to have a open heel for shore diving and cold water dives, on boat dive in warm water a full foot is find.

Well good luck on your choice. :14:

[BKP]

Anyone see Nature last night?

The Halls, a renowned globe-trotting husband/wife videographer team were tagging along on the multi-thousand mile migration of a loggerhead turtle, with amazing shots of rays, bat-fish, mating white-tips, whales, etc. Both wide-angle and macro, in and out of current, deep and shallow, rebreathers and conventional tanks...

Both wearing splits throughout...

Just an observation...

[holdingmybreath]

some people never learn...

[ToddneyX]

Anyone know where to get Apollo split fins in the UK? Can't seem to find any. The Tusa FF-9 look really cheap in terms of the plastic quality.

[BKP]

ScubaToys-SF Search Engine Output Page (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/search_results.asp?iLevel=1&txtsearchParamCat=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtFromSearch=fromSearch&txtsearchParamTxt=apollo)

Let them know you're a member of Scubaboard and it's worth a 10% discount.

I'd recommend the spring straps with them...

[Shaka Doug]

Why on earth would you still be interested in split fins? I don't get it.

[David Wilson]

>Anyone know where to get Apollo split fins in the UK? Can't seem to find any. The Tusa FF-9 look really cheap in terms of the plastic quality.<

I'm a fan of all-rubber fins like the Apollo Bio Fin and I live in the UK. You can get open-heel and Full-Foot Bio Fins here in the UK at Apollo Europe, whose address is:

Apollo Europe
Downton House
Tarrant Keynston
Blandford
Dorset
DT11 9JE
United Kingdom

and whose website is at:

: : Apollo Europe : : (http://www.apollo-europe.com/)

In their links section they have a whole list of UK retailers:

: : Apollo Europe : : (http://www.apollo-europe.com/links.html)

You can order Apollo Bio Fins online from their website.

[CapnDan]

Be aware of the differences in stiffness and kick cycles. Some of the softer fins are very fast, but in order to swim at high speed you pretty much have to kick like an eggbeater. Other fins are stiffer and are designed to operate with a much slower kick cycle. It's partly a matter of preference, but if you want to further develop your freediving skills then you will probably want to build up your leg strength and use a slower-kicking fin in order to conserve oxygen and extend your bottom time. Very few serious freedivers use splitfins and/or soft paddle fins that require a high kick cycle.

But, if you just want to make short, shallow dives and zoom around underwater at high speed then just about any comfortable, efficient fins will do. Have you seen this review?
18 New Fins - Scuba Diving Magazine (http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/fins/2007fintest_18_new_fins)

[BKP]

Some of the softer fins are very fast, but in order to swim at high speed you pretty much have to kick like an eggbeater.
I'm a big believer in using whatever works best for you, personally... So, if the paddles work for you, cool... if splits do you well... great. Different strokes, and all that...

However... this statement is nonsense.

I own the original Apollo Pro Bios (among others)... not the 'XT' version, with the stiffer durometer. I can use a leisurely flutter (far cry from an "eggbeater") and have *never* had an issue keeping up with, or outpacing other divers with various kick and fin styles, with zero effort beyond what they were expending, in and out of cross, head, and tail current.

The reasons I like the splits are simple. I don't sacrifice thrust, and I don't cramp (the way I did with paddles). The "XT" version (more rigid) gives you a bit more tactile feedback when you kick, and may be a bit more responsive to backkicking or helicoptors. Period.

There's a reason most of the traditional paddle fin manufacturers are producing split versions.

[shoturtle]

Why on earth would you still be interested in split fins? I don't get it.

Everyone is different. I like my splits, and I like my paddles. There is really not much performance difference. One is better for certain thing, and the other is better for other things. Different stokes for different folks. :14:

[Shaka Doug]

Everyone is different. I like my splits, and I like my paddles. There is really not much performance difference. One is better for certain thing, and the other is better for other things. Different stokes for different folks. :14:

My point is this. The MorFins are new technology based upon the natural evolution of fish. I am pretty sure that most of the folks on this thread have never even seen a pair of MorFins that they could actually hold in their own hands. Never mind used on a dive. This is one of those things that you don't 'get it' until you 'try it' and then you say, that's ingenious! Why didn't I think of that?

What I am getting at is that these fins really are amazing, unlike anything you have ever tried. Until you see for yourself you will remain in an era of past technology. 20 years ago we barely had internet, can you imagine if we had not followed technology where Scubaboard would be today? It probably wouldn't exist.

These fins have evolved. Divers are evolving too. After you put them on you will no longer be needing the splits or the paddles and you will want to shed them. These are as light on your feet as if you had no fins, just booties. Why waste all that energy moving heavy stiff fins or awkward splits? Morfins are like the fins you see on a tuna or a jack; splits are what you find on a goldfish, you know, not the clean, carp type, I'm talking about the ones with the eyes bugging out. I've watched them and they don't move real good.

The key to moving efficiently (especially in a thicker atmosphere than we are accustomed to on land) is to minimize all resistence. Realize this, minimal resistance in air, while even minimal, is magnified about 800 times more underwater simply due to the fact that water is 800 times denser than air. When there is absolutely no resistence, we have achieved perfection. Now I know that wearing Morfins won't make you perfectly efficient, but they will make your feet and legs do what they should be doing without wasting unneccesary energy, and that is pushing your bulk along with a nice clean tail for your slipstream.

There's a link at the top of this page for MorFins. Ask your local dive shop to bring in a few pairs so you can see for yourself. Tell them they will be amazed at how slick and clean these fins are. I will never go back to any other fins. I tested some Mares Volos today....no comparison! It's time for the discussion to go from 'Splits vs Paddles' to 'Splits vs Paddles vs MorFins'. I tell you what, the Morfins are the new kid on the block and they rock like no other before them. Welcome to the future!

If anyone wants to PM me I can give you more info on how I'm incorporating them into my rental program. My clients, especially the less experienced, older, more out of shape people (wait, isn't that most of my clients??) would sometimes complain about their fins, that they were hard to kick, they got cramps, etc.. I would see them having difficulty, looking all uncoordinated with terribly sloppy kicking. I'd pop my ears and wonder to myself "what in the world are they doing with their fins?" Then I'd signal them to "kick!" Sometimes they'd get it, sometimes they'd just keep flopping around. Well, that's now a thing of the past. My guests really take to these fins well. It's just great to have something so new and improved all of a sudden after all these years of diving.

I understand the thing about different strokes for different folks and some people are simply happy to settle with what they know and not look further. Now that I found out about MorFins I'm so excited I'm telling everybody! Have a look for yourself before you write them off your wish list!

[yt]6AIE4fhvc8U&hl=en[yt]

[ToddneyX]

Well I can see sort of see your point Shaka Doug, but unfortunately I do not trust the website. Honestly the fin pictures might as well be replaced by Viagra bottles :P

Thanks for the link CapnDan, I had also been thinking of the Mares Superchannel which got a good rating. I think I may just go with that, as I am used to paddle fins already. I'll ask my local dive shop to lend me some split fins for testing, when I'm back in Sweden.

[David Wilson]

You said you were looking for Apollo splits here in the UK, ToddneyX, which is why I did some Web-based research on your behalf (see post #20), leading to the identification of a potential online retail source for the fins in the south west of England.

[ToddneyX]

No sorry I wasn't referring to your website, but that for the Mor-fin's.

Thanks for the link btw, but it was a tad too pricey for me.

[Shaka Doug]

Well I can see sort of see your point Shaka Doug, but unfortunately I do not trust the website. Honestly the fin pictures might as well be replaced by Viagra bottles :P

Thanks for the link CapnDan, I had also been thinking of the Mares Superchannel which got a good rating. I think I may just go with that, as I am used to paddle fins already. I'll ask my local dive shop to lend me some split fins for testing, when I'm back in Sweden.

Viagra Bottles?? Are you kidding me?? I don't get it. This company is a new start up in the world arena of SCUBA manufacturers. Maybe the website is in need of some refining but don't let that stop you. They don't have the huge advertising budget like Mares or Scubapro or others like that. I do not understand why you wouldn't trust the site. They offer a great money back guarantee too. MorFins are the real deal.

[shoturtle]

No sorry I wasn't referring to your website, but that for the Mor-fin's.

Thanks for the link btw, but it was a tad too pricey for me.

order it form the states and have them shipped, with the exchange rate it you will still be saving.

[Gooski8]

IMO I would check Cressi-sub to see if their fins meet your needs.:D