Long hose with full-face mask?

[MikeS]

My understanding is that if you’re diving with a full-face mask and have a regulator problem you simply remove the mask to go to the backup regulator, or your buddy’s, and carry a backup mask, in a drysuit pocket, so you can see.

Is it possible, practical, and desirable to use a long hose on the backup regulator? If so, what is the hose routing, and where and how is the regulator attached to the harness when not in use?

Thanks,
Mike

[Wendy]

but others do:

they stuff the long hose. Ok that sounded weird. they have some bungees, inner tubing, etc around their tank and stuff the long hose back there. When they need it they just pull it out.

This is the practice of those that don't breathe their long hose as a primary.

[Quest]

MikeS once bubbled...
My understanding is that if you’re diving with a full-face mask and have a regulator problem you simply remove the mask to go to the backup regulator, or your buddy’s, and carry a backup mask, in a drysuit pocket, so you can see.

Is it possible, practical, and desirable to use a long hose on the backup regulator? If so, what is the hose routing, and where and how is the regulator attached to the harness when not in use?

Thanks,
Mike

Im not a technical instructor but my personal feelings are "YES" use the longhose for your backup regulator if not for your use then for the other divers use.

Remember the longhose has some good benefits during wreck diving or diving in places with narrow passageways. It basically allows the diver, who is breathing through your longhose, to swim in front of you at a distance far enough that you dont get kicked in the face by their fins and so you can squeeze through tight areas one at a time which is difficult with a shorter hose.

Thus a 6ft longhose is good enough for most divers 6ft or shorter. Though i personally carry a 7ft hose because im tall and most of the divers i dive with are around 6'5" too.

Routing it is easy. Just follow the Hogarthian System. There are basically two ways of routing the longhose depending on if its your primary or backup reg. Just follow the setup for the backup reg.

When its your backup reg they tend route it downwards on the divers right valve over the top of the BC along the backplate with the excess hose bungied along the right side (edge) of the backplate. Another option is to tuck it into the waist strap but i personally dont like this idea as i believe it could get in the way of a canister light mounted on the right side. The second stage is then connected to a neck lanyard and hangs in front.

[WYDT]

Quest once bubbled...

Routing it is easy. Just follow the Hogarthian System. There are basically two ways of routing the longhose depending on if its your primary or backup reg. Just follow the setup for the backup reg.

When its your backup reg they tend route it downwards on the divers right valve over the top of the BC along the backplate with the excess hose bungied along the right side (edge) of the backplate. Another option is to tuck it into the waist strap but i personally dont like this idea as i believe it could get in the way of a canister light mounted on the right side. The second stage is then connected to a neck lanyard and hangs in front.

No, no, no.... You do not ever not ever put a bungie on the longhose! If you had to not be breathing the longhose it would be clipped to the right shoulder D-ring but....

Ok, lets start from the beginning... why are you using a FFM?

From another message board (http://www.scubadiving.com/talk/read.php?f=1&i=579091&t=578971)

Exactly what are your reasons for wanting to use a full face mask? These are dangerous pieces of gear which really should only be used when absolutely necessary. Circumstances that would necessitate a FFM are:

1) Swiftwater. A FFM with a five strap spider is necessary to keep the mask securely on your face, as a standard mask and reg would be ripped off in upper class (3+) swift water.

2) Blackwater. Absolute zero visibility presents the risk of impacting or entrapping objects which could dislodge or foul your mask or second stage. The FFM in this case provides greater security, as well as #3 below, commonly associated with black water.

3) Contaminants. The FFM reduces the risk of infection from low level water-borne contaminants, bacteria, etc. High level contaminants require complete hermetic isolation through the use of a vulcanized drysuit directly attached to a helmet with a double exhaust.

4) Hardwire comms. Obviously, when comms are indicated, they need to be hardwire for maximum clarity and reliability. FFM's allow the combination of mouth and nose in a single gas space for voice intelligibility.

5) Oxygen toxicity risk. The FFM wil prevent drowing when an oxygen convulsion occurs. See below for explanation.

Full face masks complicate gas sharing, hose routing, and emergency procedures. They increase your gas consumption, and are prone to freeflow. Using these in cold water makes little sense, as the increased freeflow probability incurred by using the FFM in turn increases the probability of freezing a reg. They shouldn't be used deep under any circumstances, certainly not where gas switches are required. Using a standard half-mask and reg, with proper exposure protection, the only part of your body which is even exposed to the water is your upper lip, and this is a very well perfused area -- meaning that metabolic heating prevents tissue damage from freezing. I have dove in the Canadian arctic with a standard half-mask and reg -- not an issue.

Cumulative (pulmonary) oxygen exposure is not much of an issue on recreational dive profiles, and CNS toxicity is more appropriately managed by lowering the PPO2 of the gas you are breathing, rather than diving an elevated PPO2 and then worrying about convulsions.

I have an AGA Interspiro MKII, and a ScubaPro FFM. I use the AGA when clear voice comms are necessary (hardly ever), and the SP in swiftwater due to its low profile, and the oral/nasal separation, which makes it easy to purge when it floods.

Generally, full face masks present a risk which is not justified in day-to-day diving -- certainly not for recreational open water diving. They are important gear when necessary, but hardly ever necessary.

[Quest]

WYDT once bubbled...


No, no, no.... You do not ever not ever put a bungie on the longhose! If you had to not be breathing the longhose it would be clipped to the right shoulder D-

Are you referring to the second stage being mounted to a lanyard around the neck or excess hose bungied along right side of back plate?

[ColdH20diving]

I'm not familiar with the hazards mentioned with FFM's. I routinely dive with my AGA FFM. When using my FFM, I always carry a spare mask along with a redundant air source (pony bottle) I don't belive they (FFM's) are for everyone but, IMO they have a place in recreational diving. I run a 39" hose on my secondary and clip it on the right side of my bcd.

[WYDT]

Quest once bubbled...


Are you referring to the second stage being mounted to a lanyard around the neck or excess hose bungied along right side of back plate?

The backup reg's second stage is on a bungie that goes around your neck. The backup reg is NOT on the longhose and is only for you to use in case of emergency, not for donating. The longhose reg is the primary reg and is routed down under the light cannister across the chest from right to left around the back of the neck and into the mouth. If the primary reg is not in your mouth it's clipped off to the right shoulder D-ring. Like this...

http://www.dirquest.com/images/intro_profile.jpg

[Quest]

WYDT once bubbled...


The backup reg's second stage is on a bungie that goes around your neck. The backup reg is NOT on the longhose and is only for you to use in case of emergency,


No WYDT you might be misunderstanding what we are discussing.

We arent talking about choosing between a fullface mask and a longhose. We are talking about when a diver has chosen to use a fullface mask could they use a longhose as their backup regulator. And the answer would be "YES".

The Hogarthian system has two ways of routing the long hose.

The first way is just as you explained where you breathe through the long hose.

The second way is to breathe through the short hose and store the long hose along the right side of your backplate as i explained.

If a person is using a fullface mask and wanted to incorporate a longhose as their backup reg they would follow the later of the two setups.

But, my question to you was if you were commenting on my statement of a) securing the second stage to surgical tubing around the neck when the long hose is being deployed as a backup or b) securing the excess longhose to the backplate using surgical tubing. As i took this right out of my tech books.

[WYDT]

Quest once bubbled...


No WYDT you might be misunderstanding what we are discussing.

No, I understand exactly what you're talking about I just think you are completely wrong.


We arent talking about choosing between a fullface mask and a longhose. We are talking about when a diver has chosen to use a fullface mask could they use a longhose as their backup regulator. And the answer would be "YES".


No, you don't use a long hose as a backup regulator.

[i]
The Hogarthian system has two ways of routing the long hose.

The first way is just as you explained where you breathe through the long hose.


Nope, the "Hogarthian" system only has one way to route the long hose and it's as I stated.

[i]
The second way is to breathe through the short hose and store the long hose along the right side of your backplate as i explained.


Doing it this way is a major CF and is not "Hogarthian".


If a person is using a fullface mask and wanted to incorporate a longhose as their backup reg they would follow the later of the two setups.


A backup reg is for YOU and is on the short hose and is not for gas sharing. A FFM is not recommended (see previous post) for any scenario where gas sharing may be needed. The longhose is for donating and not called a backup. In the Hogarthian system one breathes the longhose and donates it in the event of an OOG buddy. The diver who donates the longhose then goes to his/her "backup" which is bungied under his/her chin.


But, my question to you was if you were commenting on my statement of a) securing the second stage to surgical tubing around the neck when the long hose is being deployed as a backup or b) securing the excess longhose to the backplate using surgical tubing. As i took this right out of my tech books.

My advice is to forget about the FFM unless it's absolutely necessary and to also throw away any "tech" book that tells you to "stuff your longhose"...

[Doppler]

Don't think full-face and Holgarthian necessarily fit into the same sentance folks... and stuffing long hoses and breathing short ones is definitely outside the purview of Mr. Hogarth... but enough of that, allow me to get back to some issues already raised here.

Why the FFM.

I do a lot of mix diving in cold water on OCS and have not found them useful or appropriate... the opposite in fact. So the question stands... why? If there are no gas switches, I can see it. Otherwise, they belong at the 20-foot stop for decompression... don't they?!

And are a bloody expensive little frill for that... just sell it and use the money for charter fees.


=-)

[WreckWriter]

Doppler once bubbled...
Otherwise, they belong at the 20-foot stop for decompression... don't they?!

they belong on the boat for emergency IWR after an accident.

WW

[trymixdiver]

WYDT

You stated it complicates Gas Sharing, and this is the controversy in here.

I agree, its a big issue when using a FFM. FFM can be used and gas sharing in a serious OOA emergancy can be done but its not a perfect system. then again nor is any scuba setup anything could happen.

Just like in tech if the 2nd stage fails you can unscew it and change it with a working 2nd if you must. This will cause water to enter the system but hey its an emergancy right.

With a FFM its the same idea. Using a quick disconnect you can "plug" into your buddies gas supply. Just like the other emergancy fix your still introducing water into the system. but your alive.

That said, you cant just take any dive buddy out, they will need the same FFM side block setup as you and u need practice using it. I used this system for 100 dives with my buddy and it worked, it is not reccommended for tech though. It is complicated and has too many failure points to use doing any serious diving.

A FFM setup can be done if your not tech diving or gas switching. FFM done right are safe. FFM are for experienced divers only because they complicate gas sharing and require extra training in there use.

As for FFM and a long hose on your back up i say absolutely yes. how your going to store it is another question. We are not dealing with standard gear here, this is specialized gear and the rules your used to using DONT ALWAYS APPLY.

FFM are specialzed gear and things are done differently when using it. You cant say a Hogarthian rig covers all equipment placement. Each specialized gear config requires modifications so it works properly. just like a RB doesnt have the exact gear configuration as tech scuba or wreck diving.

Diff configs for diff gear and diff applications.

Andy

WYDT I just feel you slammed the door on FFM and some the info i dont agree with.

And no i dont use the FFM with a side block anymore, i cant switch gases safely so i went back to Apex regs.

[WYDT]

trymixdiver once bubbled...

That said, you cant just take any dive buddy out, they will need the same FFM side block setup as you and u need practice using it. I used this system for 100 dives with my buddy and it worked, it is not reccommended for tech though. It is complicated and has too many failure points to use doing any serious diving.


Ok, so why use it if it's (unecessarily) complicated and has too many failure points? You didn't say you absolutely needed to use one. Do you just like adding danger factors and failure points?


A FFM setup can be done if your not tech diving or gas switching. FFM done right are safe. FFM are for experienced divers only because they complicate gas sharing and require extra training in there use.


Once again I just don't see the point of using one...


As for FFM and a long hose on your back up i say absolutely yes. how your going to store it is another question. We are not dealing with standard gear here, this is specialized gear and the rules your used to using DONT ALWAYS APPLY.


The main rule I use is KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)


FFM are specialzed gear and things are done differently when using it. You cant say a Hogarthian rig covers all equipment placement. Each specialized gear config requires modifications so it works properly. just like a RB doesnt have the exact gear configuration as tech scuba or wreck diving.


The main reason I responded to the post was because the guy who told you to do it hogarthian by bungieing the long hose under your neck was totally wrong.


Diff configs for diff gear and diff applications.

Andy

WYDT I just feel you slammed the door on FFM and some the info i dont agree with.

And no i dont use the FFM with a side block anymore, i cant switch gases safely so i went back to Apex regs.

Look, I've really got nothing against FFM's and they have their place.

My original post was to correct the poster who was using the word "Hogarthian" seemingly indiscriminently with no regard for what "Hogarthian" really is.

Since you don't say you're using a FFM for one of the reasons I listed above (in my first post) I assume you are just using it because you like it. If I'm wrong let me know.

Also the part of the previous post on the FFM was a cut and past from another message board and wasn't written by me (I hope it didn't appear that way, I did leave a link to it) but it was written by someone who has a LOT of experience with FFM's and is a member of an elite Canadian SAR team. I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about there.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything... just wondering why someone would use something that is admittedly more complicated and dangerous when it's not needed.

DSAO!

[trymixdiver]

WYDT

"Ok, so why use it if it's (unecessarily) complicated and has too many failure points? You didn't say you absolutely needed to use one. Do you just like adding danger factors and failure points?"


I said: " A FFM setup can be done if your not tech diving or gas switching."

I did absolutly need to use one.

It was adding a little complexity or dont dive. It was within my skill lvl. I dove this set up and was comfortable with it on many many dives.

It can be done, not without adding a gas sharing issue. But like i said u can use a QD to plug into your buddies gas supply. My Aga was set up with a side block and QDs. Connecting to my buddy was practiced and it was simple.

"Once again I just don't see the point of using one"

I was diving Lake Tahoe, 34 degrees at depth. 2-3 hrs in the water.

"KISS"

I was specificlaly refering to your comparing AGA mask set ups to a Hogarthian rig. Apples and oranges my friend.

KISS is exaclty what a long hose back up is on a FFM setup. Either way in an emergancy the diver OOA gets the long hose no matter the gear in most cases. Why change it, the long hose back up it ideal.


I was answering your questions one at a time. i got to the bottom and now i see you didnt write it.

I was under the impression you wrote it, my bad.

"member of an elite Canadian SAR team"

Maybe so but some of his comments are wrong / inacurate in IMHO. And just because he says he is SAR dont mean a thing, lots of posers out there. I posted about poser navy seals a while back, take a look at the site link. you will be surprised at how many there are.

Andy

[WYDT]

trymixdiver once bubbled...
WYDT
"member of an elite Canadian SAR team"

Maybe so but some of his comments are wrong / inacurate in IMHO. And just because he says he is SAR dont mean a thing, lots of posers out there. I posted about poser navy seals a while back, take a look at the site link. you will be surprised at how many there are.

Andy

Andy, this guy isn't a poser... if you do a search for cast55 on the Rodales board you'll see. He's been on that board (and on some others including DIRquest) for a long time and definitely knows what he's talking about.

Having said that I really don't care if you use a FFM or not, my original argument was with the dude totally misusing the term "hogarthian". I didn't mean to get into the argument of FFM vs not since I personally have never so much as held one in my hand. I do however remain skeptical of their benefits.... ;)

DSAO!

[Quest]

WYDT once bubbled...

My original post was to correct the poster who was using the word "Hogarthian" seemingly indiscriminently with no regard for what "Hogarthian" really is.
DSAO! [/B]

WYDT, I meant to respond yesterday but didnt get a change to. And thank you for the correction!

After getting your response i reviewed several of my tech books and a few dozen websites that explain the hogarthian system and realized my error.

Unfortunately the books i was referencing and these sites all lop what the called the "Bungie Style" every time they explain the hogarthian system.

It was a bit misinterpretting when the title of the chapter or subsection is called "Hogarthian Equipment Configuration" or "Variations of the Hogarhian System".

Like i said im not an instructor, just getting into tech diving and thank you for the correction.

[Quest]

Though i admittingly stand corrected with the use of the term Hogarthian i still am in complete disagreement with one item.

I agree the Hogarthian configuration (breathing the long hose and donating your own regulator) is the ideal configuration in most situations.

But there are situations where it is NOT POSSIBLE to breathe from the long hose. Perfect example being the full face mask.

But, lets say a recreational diver did use one of those recreational FFM that are available. Doesnt it make sense that they have a backup reg if for some bizarre reason their dive buddy had an out of air situation?

And if you agree then doesnt it make sense that the donating reg, whether your breathing the hogarthian system (long hose) or say from an FMM (short hose), resultably be a long hose?

And if that is an agreement by most of the people on this board doesnt it make sense that regardless whether your breathing from the long hose or int he case of the FFM your breathing from the short hose that your donating reg be a long hose?

If there wasnt any value in using the "Bungie Style - Donating longhose from ones retaining device" then why is it mentioned in most of the tech books and websites when they discuss using the hogarthian system?

Though i dont ever plan to use a FFM im sure some recreational divers are using it if for any other reason then cold water diving or being able to talk back and forth to each other.

Do i think FFM's are good for all situations? Nope!

Do i ever plan to use an FFM? Nope!

Can someone use an octo with an FFM? It appears so!

Should the donating reg be a longhose? It appears so!

Does the Bungie System address the issue of donating a longhose when there isnt a choice but to breathe from a short hose as a primary reg? Sure does!

Is it for everyone? Nope, but if i had to dive with an FFM (recreational style not commercial) and someone was in an out of air situation, be it in an area with limited space or open ocean, i sure would like the option of donating a reg to that person and it appears eveyrone agree's that reg should be a long hose.

[WYDT]

Quest once bubbled...

Is it for everyone? Nope, but if i had to dive with an FFM (recreational style not commercial) and someone was in an out of air situation, be it in an area with limited space or open ocean, i sure would like the option of donating a reg to that person and it appears eveyrone agree's that reg should be a long hose.

Since neither you nor I have ever even used a FFM I think our debate is rather pointless though it may be amusing to some others ;)

If you have a long hose it should not be stuffed in a bungie. :wacko:

Hypothetical situation... If I were using a FFM and had a reg on a long hose I would "park it" by clipping it off to my right shoulder d-ring just like if I were using a stage. The hose would be routed just like if I were diving the normal "Hogarthian" setup. That's what I meant by "if you aren't breathing the longhose it's clipped off to your right d-ring".

[Bob3]

I use a bailout & a sideblock with most of my FFMs, the rig has a QD. For buddy diving a normal length second stage hose is used & the whole bailout assembly is passed off, and then the QD is disconnected.
How's a guy supposed to take a nap without a FFM? ;)

[MikeFerrara]

I have a couple of FFM's that I don't use because of the equipment configuration issues like sharing air and gas switches. I have thought of using one on my O2 bottle but haven't done it yet.

[MikeS]

Thanks for the information and entertaining argument. You’ve helped me think of issues that I hadn’t, that’s what’s great about Scuba Board. I need to reevaluate the idea of getting a FFM as it looks like it creates more problems than it solves.

Mike

[cast55]

Looking at the post dates here, this reply may be ridiculously late, but here's my take:

First off, that list of reasons for not using FFMs is entirely valid, and I still stand behind every one of those points.

That said, I still have to use them in some situations, like diving swiftwater, or working dives when I need voice comms, or blackwater dives that don't necessitate wearing a helmet.

When I use them, it may be on surface supply, which in addition to the umbilical requires a bailout bottle. This is connected via a standard DSI bailout valve.

When using a FFM on SCUBA, it is done on the standard DIR rig, with a couple of differences: The FFM is actually connected to the hose which would ordinarily feed the backup reg (around the neck). In this case, that hose will need to be a few inches longer to accomodate turning your head all the way to the left. The FFM feeds from the right like any other second stage, so with the AGAs that come with the showerhead reg with a left side feed, I use a rigid tube 180 degree adapter that makes it feed from the right. The long hose reg is as per normal, except you use a backup (non pneumatically balanced or detuned) second stage instead of a high performance balanced second, and it gets clipped off on the right chest d-ring, just as it would if you were on a stage. In this position, it is ready for donation at all times.

I do not do multiple gas dives while wearing a FFM, or in fact anything other than those dives where the risk of not wearing it outweighs the risk of wearing it. For fun diving, be that recreational or technical, there is no place for these.

-Sean

[saturated]

If you want to use the long hose config with a ffm check out the kirby morgan m48. It would eliminate alot of issues raised previously.

[TX65]

On the FFM issues, I use one and have been since my diving beginnings as a commercial diver. Why do I use it? I prefer it for many reasons but those are my reasons and may not be yours.

In my rig, I use a DSI manifold block mounted on the right shoulder strap of my harness with two independant 1st stages feeding it. I then run one hose from the manifold block to the 2nd stage on the mask.

This is nothing new, DSI manufactured this block for use with the EXO. It is also an adaptation of the side block on a Superlite helmet so it is a proven system. I prefer this arrangement to a side block on my lightweight mask since I dont want the added weight or hoses up around the mask.

To accomodate gas switching, you install an extra bailout valve (comes with one and a non return valve) and that way you can switch between gases by turning knobs located on you chest. To add a safety margin, the two knobs are different colors.

If you want quick disconnects, you can install them between the mask and manifold block as well as between the 1st stages and the manifold block. Make sure you use good ones like the Hanson stainless units that prevent flow on either hose when disconnected.

Oh, I run an Octo off the block in the event of a 2nd stage failure on the mask or an OOA emergency for others. I also carry a compact mask in a pocket on my BC. In addition, my BC and my drysuit are fed of this block.

Compared to running a 2nd stage and an octo on every tank it is less complex since I only have two 2nd stages vs four 2nd stages with conventional scuba running doubles.

To increase to three tanks, I can either add another valve to the block or can uncouple the tank not in use and couple the new one in with a quick disconnect.

One final comment, if full face masks or helmets were unsafe, they wouldnt be the standard of the commercial diving industry.

[cast55]

TX65 once bubbled...

Compared to running a 2nd stage and an octo on every tank it is less complex since I only have two 2nd stages vs four 2nd stages with conventional scuba running doubles.


This statement makes absolutely no sense. A doubles rig has two first stages, and two second stages (1 primary and 1 backup). Also, let's not lose sight of the original discussion, which was regarding the use of full-face masks in SCUBA applications. The DSI block is good gear, but not necessarily the most appropriate setup for SCUBA, especially when doing multiple gas dives. One of the greatest advantages of stage diving is the complete independence of the stage from the rest of your rig, allowing it to be jettisoned at any point during the dive, or handed off to another diver if necessary - actions that are precluded if these gases are connected to a block on your body. Also, by doing these manual gas switches with a half-mask and reg, your buddy is able to tell by visual inspection whether you are on the right gas, and act accordingly. Similarly, if a buddy starts to act a little strange, it is a very simple (and prudent) matter to offer the long hose (bottom gas) to immediately rule that out as a possible problem. When it is not, you go back on the long hose - no big deal. If you are wearing FFMs, any attempt at gas donation requires either a bailout on the part of the distressed diver, or connection and manipulation of the distressed diver's block - complicated enough to make one shy away from donating at the slightest provocation, and time consuming enough that when there really is a problem, you have just allowed time for the situation to go from bad to worse.

As far as safety is concerned, did you happen to read my initial post concerning the risks of FFMs? Sure, FFMs and helmets are the commercial diving standard, but that is in conjunction with other commercial diving standards which do not allow for the sort of diving we are discussing: extended excursion mixed gas dives on self-contained open circuit gear, utilizing completely in-water accelerated decompression on enriched mixtures. As open circuit SCUBA divers, we have issues to consider which are moot in commercial operations.

-Sean

[TX65]

As I said in the beginning, I have my reasons for using FFM equipment and my rig.

The point of my post was to describe how I have rigged my system to facilitate switching between gases using a FFM and how I allow for another diver requiring use of my gas.

I typically dive two different Nitrox mixes. One of these is my bottom gas and the other I switch to for any deco stops or just to wash my system out. These mixes may be in 2 tanks or 4 tanks. I do not dive Trimix, nor do I care to (I breathed enough Heliox in my past). Nor do I dives to 350 fsw,,,been there...done that.

As far as the comment that my rig makes no sense, it does.

Lets look at a dive with a set of doubles and a deco tank. I have a 1st stage on each tank just like you do, but instead of having a primary and backup 2nd stage on each 1st stage, I run a single hose from each 1st stage to the manifold block. Each connection has an on/off valve and a Non-Return Valve mounted clearly on my chest where I can see it.

From the manifold block, I run two 2nd stages with one being on the full face mask and another available in case my primary 2nd stage fails or another diver needs to access the same gas I am breathing.

Now, you bring up a point about another diver is next to me using a FFM. First, like a good buddy, I would be sure they have the ability to share gas with a 2nd stage and have a spare mask for themselves if they have to ditch their FFM. I am also prepared with my spare mask to be able to ditch my FFM to share gas with them or another diver.

I could go into if they had a rig like mine, what could be done to couple them, but time is marching on.

I prefer using a full face mask for the range of diving I currently do. I have built my rig to be able to switch gases and I have built-in redundancy for CMA and to allow for a buddy diver in the event they require assistance. I also have accepted the nuiances of possibly ditching my FFM and donning a conventional mask should I need to.

Great thing about sport diving is people are free to apply their knowledge and experience. If everyone only did things one way, we would all be diving Mark V helmets and Scuba wouldnt even be around.

[BigJetDriver]

TX65 once bubbled...
On the FFM issues, I use one and have been since my diving beginnings as a commercial diver. Why do I use it? I prefer it for many reasons but those are my reasons and may not be yours.
One final comment, if full face masks or helmets were unsafe, they wouldnt be the standard of the commercial diving industry. :D

I've been using the Divator MkII, and the EXO 26 for many years now and have found them to be very safe and useful. My all-time favorite has become the Widolf, as resurrected by Tracy Robinette of Divematics. I use it with my Extended Range Mixed-Gas Inspiration so that I can utilize a long-range through-water OTS comm unit. Damn, is that mask comfortable, even with the installed DSV block and APEKS second stage!

As Bob3 once asked: "How's a guy supposed to take a nap without an FFM?" Of course, I'd have to ask how a guy is supposed to get a nap with all those bubbles roaring around his head anyway,eh?

=-) :D

[mntdiver]

Tell me how many people have ever been harmed by diving a full face mask when properly trained. There have been far more that are still alive because they were wearing one then have ever been hurt because of wearing one. Add communications and the safety factor goes up exponentally.

Go unconscious for whatever reason wearing your DIR rig and I hope you said good bye to your loved ones...