How would you recommend that I start cave training

Hello, everybody:

I've always said that wrecks were my thing and that I'd stick to what I knew.

I saw some very cool cave videos recently and decided to consider cave training.

My search of the archives suggests that there are several training entities and certifications available.

Are the differences between agencies similar to those between PADI, NAUI, etc? In other words, is this a case (as I strongly suspect) where the instructor is the key? Do you have specific people that you would recommend?

In addition, I've read what seems to me to be strange rules regarding the use of doubles and lights. I say strange because, up here, most of the boats will let us use pretty much whatever we want as long as we meet the minimum requirements. We can upgrade to our heart's desire.

Is is true that someone will actually tell me that I can't use certain gear configurations. I can see why lights might be an issue (keeps you in the light zone), but will they actually prohibit me from using doubles?

I was also hoping for your thoughts on experience level. I'm a Northeast wreck diver with penetration and decompression experience. I'm a PADI DM (soon to be AI) with the usual batch of pretty cards (nitrox, buoyancy, wreck, etc...). I've also taken DIR-F. I am signed up for TDI's Advanced Nitrox and Decompression Procedures course this Spring. I'm considering an intro mix course this fall.

In terms of equipment, I dive double 104's or single 120's on a Halcyon rig. I've got other equipment that is appropriate for wreck diving (can light, reels, dry suit, argon, Jetfins, etc...). In general, will this equipment cross over?

Finally, I'm curious about your suggestions for training locations in the U.S. As far as I know, there are no suitable caves in my area. Florida seems popular, but MikeFerrara and Chickdiver have posted some reports on other locations that sound very cool.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Equipment should be pretty much the same between caves and wrecks.

Doubles, good primary light, two backup lights, long hose, good fins, primary reel, safety spool, etc.

Cavern training is usually done with single tank and h-valve, but if you are planning to progress through the entire cave course or have previous experience with doubles, this shouldnt be an issue. I took the entire course in doubles.

Anything else specifically you want to know about?

Cave Diver:

Thanks for the quick response:

Two Questions:

1. With whom did you train and were you satisfied with the training?

2. Where did you train?

'Wrecks:

Since you have taken a DIR-F class and are familiar with their approach, I would strongly recommend a GUE course for you (well, I would under any circumstances.... ) for several reasons, those being:

1. Most of the "other" agencies will not want you to start off in doubles, unless you do a "one week wonder" OW to Full Cave class.

2. The training and instructors are very, very good. (PM me if yo would like some specific recommendations).

I would also recommend that you get trained in Florida- for a couple of reasons. Florida caves are one of the most arduous cave diving environments you will encounter, they are (compared to Mexico) cold, they have high flow, etc. You wont find a lot of these elements in Mexico, so if you train in Fl and go to Mexico for some diving you are more than prepared, however, if you train in Mexico and then dive in FL, you might be in for some surprises. I know that sounds kind of silly, but I have know several people over the years who trained in Mexico and then would only dive there becuase "Florida caves are too hard".

Good Luck and have fun.

We dive the Missouri caves alot but I don't think much training goes on there. Conditions are less certain in Missouri (there is always good conditions somewhere in Florida) and the Missouri cave we dive the most doesn't have a circuit or traverse that you can do. The cave also drops to 150 a couple hundred feet is and for the most part stays there so you rack up deco pretty quick. We usually do a single stage and always use mix, 50% and O2. The cave that we dive that does present the oportunity to do a traverse often has lousy vis at least around the entrances. Most instructors wouldn't use it for training most of the time.

My money says you can get a good class regardless of agency as long as you pick a good instructor. I don't know alot of cave instructors but I have been impressed by a few.

chickdiver once bubbled...
'Wrecks:

Since you have taken a DIR-F class and are familiar with their approach, I would strongly recommend a GUE course for you (well, I would under any circumstances.... ) for several reasons, those being:

1. Most of the "other" agencies will not want you to start off in doubles, unless you do a "one week wonder" OW to Full Cave class.

2. The training and instructors are very, very good. (PM me if yo would like some specific recommendations).

[snip]

Click to expand...

Hi... my name is Bob and I'm a "one week wonder" .....{Hi Bob}....

I just got back a few days ago from the class, and decided upon this route for several reasons:

1. Of my last two hundred dives, all but 10% were in doubles. I had no intention of learning in singles.
2. I knew and had dove with the Instructor (from Indiana) on several occasions. I had a good of what to expect from him, and he knew what to expect from me.
3. My buddy and I took DIR-F together. We practice relentlessly, and are brutally frank critiquing each other's skills. We hoped this might also be a "tune-up" for Tech 1 we're working toward.
   [/list=1]
   
   Even though my buddy and I did well in the class, I found the "Law of Primacy" hard at work when non-DIR things came up in class (This was a non-GUE course). I was allowed the flexibility to try things my way and their way. After meeting and talking briefly with David Rhea part way into class at one of the sites, I have to admit a twinge of "buyer's remorse". However, at some point after Tech 1, we will probably work in a Cave 1 course..... We'll see how it goes.....
   
   Even though I now have a Full Cave card, I am "big" on diving within my limits and gaining experience slowly. If you go this route, don't be lulled into a false sense of confidence by the cert card in your wallet.
   
   I feel that many people jump into Tech and Cave classes too soon for a multiplicity of reasons. With almost 400 dives and a realistic understanding of my skills, experiences, and limitations, I had no qualms about an intense "one week wonder class", however, I wouldn't recommend this approach for very many people. Of the 3 people that started the class, only my buddy and I made it through. The other guy was already cavern certified and had a high opinion of his ability and skill.
   
   The politically correct version of the week of training can be found
   here
   
   If there are any questions or more details desired, I would be happy to exchange PM's.

cwb

I am glad that approach worked out for you. As you astutely pointed out, it isn't for everyone. I think it can be a good option for people like yourself with experience inthe equipment, but for the average open water diver coming into this type of diving it usually ends up being a nightmare. I meant no offense with the term "one week wonder".

Good diving.
Chica

chickdiver once bubbled...
cwb

I am glad that approach worked out for you. As you astutely pointed out, it isn't for everyone. I think it can be a good option for people like yourself with experience inthe equipment, but for the average open water diver coming into this type of diving it usually ends up being a nightmare. I meant no offense with the term "one week wonder".

Good diving.
Chica

Click to expand...

No offense taken! As an analogy, I was in the Army National Guard for many years and heard the term "Weekend Warrior" thrown around a bit, too. Guess they didn't realize that some of us took our duties seriously.

I agree with your statements. If I had to make a "carte blanche" statement for people I didn't know, I'd say don't do it in one week.

I agree with basically everything that's been said here so far. I too am a "one week wonder," but like cwb, had a fair bit of experience before doing the one week course (in fact, it sounds like my experience level was very similar to cwb's). I really didn't feel overwhelmed by the one week course at all, and found it amazingly fun and educational in fact. BUT... like the others have said, if you don't have a significant amount of experience yet, I recommend against the one week course. You really have to be comfortable with your buoyancy, skills, and in general before you can do the intensive course (at least if the course is done properly). In fact, even with my experience, I would have prefered to do the course over a longer period. The only reason I did the condensed course was because I live in Canada and am a student, which equals no money to go to Florida very often to finish the various steps of the course.

As for the instructor, from the research I did and the things I've heard, I think it's really the instructor that counts, and not the agency. The GUE course has certain advantages to it, but it also has certain disadvantages (from what I understand; I've never done a GUE course)... this is also the case for all the other agencies. The only cave instructor that I have personal experience with is Bill "Bird" Oeistrich. I have no point of reference (other than research I did when I was looking to take the course), but Bird was outstanding. He has a phenomenal amount of experience, he's amazing in the water, and he has a great way of teaching that really made me feel comfortable. The other thing I liked about him was that, while he was very particular about the way he did things, he was open to alternatives (I like a certain degree of rigidity, but not too much).

If you'd like any more details, send me a message. Good luck with the course... I'm pretty sure you'll love it.

Josh

Thanks to everyone for the great advice.

I don't really feel ready for full cave in a week. It's taken years to get to the point where I'm comfortable with fully penetrating wrecks and they are nearly as long as a cave.

I do note that there is an option to combine Cavern and Intro Cave. That strikes me as interesting.

Assume for the moment that the instructor wants me to take the course in singles. If I do that, is there any reason I can't turn around and use doubles once the course is over? Not to exceed the intro limits, but because I like redundancy and I really like my doubles. I even work the OW classes in doubles.

Thanks again.