Which do you think is better and why?

[akforsyth]

I have been looking around at harness/backplate systems lately and would like to get everyones opinion on which they think is better. Please feel free to add any other brand/style you wish to the conversation. TIA.

[cnidae]

Well everyone has their opinions. I’ll probably get bashed for this one. I think OMS is far superior to the others stated. The reasons are simple, the bands are not death traps like people have stated in the past they keep the Bag (Bags) closer to the body unlike the others and in a smaller space than the doubles occupy. So the chances of them getting snagged are extremely low. One of the other concern with them that I’ve heard is if you get your BC speared by a gun then the bands will force most of the air out. Getting speared by a gun is very unlikely. I’ve also read that the irregularity in the shape of the bag caused turbulence (DIR). This is ridiculous; the volume is so low compared to a normal bag without the bands that the turbulence is irrelevant. Another down side I’ve heard expressed is the entrapment of air in different locations of a BC with bands. This is just another statement to bash BC’s with bands. In no way do they cause a negative effect on your buoyancy, if anything they help by slowing the air movement down so shifts in the divers latitude are smoother.

I have a OMS single bladder set up and a double bladder set up. I’ve not seen the others you’ve stated with double bladders (and I’ve only dove the Halcyon and the OMS) so I don’t know how they get around the increased volume to streamline the diver. Most people will say there is never a reason to have a dual bladder; they say “ you should be weighted so you can swim to the surface if a buoyancy failure occurs. There is no way someone can weight them self in such a way to be able to do this in the waters and depths we dive in my area. The diver will always be negative; I would love to see someone swim from 400’ slinging 3 80’s to there first deco or shallow enough to deploy a lift bag. Some will argue that, DIR states one should use the lift of there dry suit in these cases, to me there is no way I’m going to rely on my dry suit for lift. Some say they would just use their lift bag, totally uncalled for. I’m just expressing points that show that a dual bladder is necessary in some applications. So there you have it, just my opinion. This is in no way to bash the DIR guys on this board. I use allot of DIR gear configs. and DIR has some excellent material and techniques.

[Uncle Pug]

Most backplates are going to be the same functionally.

Personally I like having the slots in the plate for use with Halcyon's built in single tank adapter wing... but if you are going to use an STA then you don't need the slots.

The big difference will be plate material... SS or Aluminum (don't go plastic.)

As for the harness... it is just 2" weightbelt webbing with some d-rings, weightbelt keepers and other small stuff. Nothing spectacular and nothing brand specific.

Since you didn't ask about wings I'll leave it at that.

[Amphibious]

I'm going to say Backplate and wings, and as a second choice, the TP2 (if you're going to be diving only singles)

I wouldn't buy halcyon personally, don't get me wrong, they make top-notch equipment, but soooo $$$$$

Right now I'm going with a G.U.T.S. Custom 6lb plate and DiveRite Clasic wings. I'd rather get excelent equipment that does the same job as a Halcyon set, and spend the money I saved on a twin-set of PST104's.

a couple of us are diving Gary's BP's, $130cdn vs $160us for a Halcyon plate. I really can't tell the difference in performance.

If you want to try out a TransPac 2 let me know, feel free to borrow mine.

Willer

[100days-a-year]

Dive-Rite SS B/P with one piece continous harness,2 Highland Engineering D-rings and one or 2 bent in vise d-rings.SS buckle.2 Dive-Rite weight pouches on waist for strobe,spools,SMB.Bladders from 18# Halcyon to 65#knock-off of Dive-Rite .OMS STA when diving singles.

[ScoobieDooo]

OMS IQ harness, OMS SS BP, OMS No-Sag Pockets, OMS Bungee single bladder wings, OMS Eanx computer. No issues, no problems.

Tried the Halcyon Pioneers - no diff. Too much money in my opinion.

Never heard of *anyone* dying from OMS Bungee Wings.

[ColdH20diving]

I use an OMS IQ PAK, wing and SS back plate, all the talk about bungeed wings of death and air trapping are just that, TALK. Halycon no doubt makes quality gear, but it's way over priced. Most of the equiment mentioned on the list is quality gear when used appropiately. IMO buy the best gear you can afford that matches the type of diving you intend to do.

[detroit diver]

I chose other. UP hit it on the nose.

A backplate is pretty much a backplate. There are so many other manufacturers than just those listed on your poll. Fred T makes a GREAT BP and it's reasonably priced. I've got his AL BP and a Halcyon BP and it's made very well. Not cheap.

Harness are just harnesses-although you want a continuous harness.

Bungee wings of death are just bungee wings of death. Oops, couldn't resist!:D

[ScoobieDooo]

Detroit Diver,
Tell me, who this phantom cadaver is that died on OMS Bungeed Wings, please, enlighten me.

[detroit diver]

ScoobieDooo once bubbled...
Detroit Diver,
Tell me, who this phantom cadaver is that died on OMS Bungeed Wings, please, enlighten me.

Hijacking of threads is illegal and immoral.

Do a search on bungied wings of death. Lots for you to read there.

[ColdH20diving]

Scoobiedooo, You know they can't come up a single fact to support the bungeed wings of death statement. All that nonsense comes from DIR/GUE, one would think they could sell their Halcyon gear on it's own merits.

[divedude]

I will have to go with other
I bought 10' of weight belt, took a 1/8th plate aluminum,Cut drilled and bent it, bought some d-rings, clips and a OMS blatter.
Took me one afternoon to build, I also made my own tank bands for twin 80's..... No I will never win any DIR awards! But then I've been diving longer than most GUE-DIR converts.

[ScoobieDooo]

Cold 2 Hydrogen atoms and 1 Oxygen Atom,
Hahaha....

Yes, I know they can't. I have spoken to many OMS users, some VERY accomplished divers at that, deep divers, tech divers, deco divers, etc. and no a single one can give me details, names, etc. of a single OMS fatality.

Any firm that sells their same wings for over $100 more than OMS HAS to justify it somehow.

As I said, I have dove both brands so that’s no just IMO, I saw no difference in my diving with the Halcyon vs. the OMS. Yea, the Halcyon looked like a quality wing - no doubt about it - but then, so does my OMS as far as I can tell.

It all hype...

[ElectricZombie]

For backplates, FredT would be my 1st choice and Halcyon my 2nd. For wings, only Halcyon. Their wings are extremely well made and are very, very durable.

[DiveTub]

On Sunday I put together my Zeagle Backplate with Standard Harness, fist one into Australia and I am in LOVE.

I got in soo much trouble last night because as my wife tried to get into bed she was pushed to one side to make way for my new rig.

As I dive wet I put on the 55# dual bladder a couple of Twin Faber 12Lt Tanks and a Sexy Chrome Manifold with a couple of Mares Ruby's hanging off it.

I am going to take it for a splash one night this week. And will give a report on it.

[andibk]

I have been using double bladder 100 lb OMS for the last 7 years with no problems. My personnel one I just changed not from being worn out but just for being faded. Only recommendation would to carry extra bungy cords in your box since they do break on a occassion other then they I will keep diving with OMS.

Bruce

[dmdalton]

As UP said I like haveing the slots in the Halcyon BP son it can be used with the Halcyon wings without a STA. Hence I like the Halcyon BP and I feel the Halcyon SS BP in finished much nicer than the others and if you quit diving can always be used as a mirror to shave!

However, I recently bought a Halcyon AL BP and thought that the the finishing and workmanship was far below their other products, in fact not even as nice as the Dive Rite AL BP, more like something Bubba would crank out in his garage and sell for $50. This weekend a dive buddy showed me his new Halcyon AL plate and had similar comments and concerns so mine was not just a bad production run as I had to wait for mine to arrive after a 2 month backordered 6 months ago and my buddy just got his last week after a one month backorder.

So in the end I voted for Halcyon because of the slots but if I did it again I would get someone elses AL plate.

Dave D

[omar]

After using Dive Rite, Halcyon, & Koplin, I am going to get a Fred T heavy. The one piece harness is the same for all of them.

BTW

Died while diving bondage wings.........
John S. Claypool, Jane Ornstein

omar

[ColdH20diving]

omar once bubbled...
BTW

Died while diving bondage wings.........
John S. Claypool, Jane Ornstein

omar

You just can't post the above without giving specifics. There's nothing here to explain the circumstances or prove that their deaths were related to their equipment. If we all went by that logic there would be no equipment safe to dive with as divers have no doubt died wearing various brands/types of equipment. I'd really like to know the rest of the story.

[JamieZ]

Jane Ornstein died from a O2 hit . """Investigators believe she mistakenly switched her breathing supply over to an oxygen-rich mixture known to be highly toxic at great depths.""" Nothing to do with what type of gear she was wearing.


Here's a link.
http://web.outsideonline.com/magazine/200101/200101disp1.html

John Clayton died with unknown circumstances (he was lost at Sea for 3 days) trying to help a student "Elkins" who was apparently having BC problems. Which was a bungied wing. This bungied wing statement was made by people who dont like them. Not by anyone investigating the death.

[ColdH20diving]

Scubanarc, thanks for the information. Honestly I don't understand all the trash talk about banded wings. They can't support their claims of "bungeed wings of death" when questioned, It's getting old not to mention stupid.:)

[omar]

Claypool was the student. Elkins was an instructor who tried to help in the rescue attempt and died as well.

The O2 hit theory for Ornstein only comes from McNulty. This is to minimize his lack of response to save an overweighted student that did not have the proper equipment (ie. steel stages, bondage wings) lack of experience and no real instructor to mentor her. The Outside story is grossly incomplete and inaccurate.

omar

[AquaTec]

PUG you are so diplomatic and non opinionated these days.
of course you are right the question did not mention wings at all, so you left that hot topic alone.

I see there is strong OMS talk this time, i think that is why it is good to rehash stuff as opposed to just looking at old threads.

as for the question at hand, I totaly agree with PUG. back plate and hraness are nothing realy special. other than the material it is made out of, and the oppinion of a continous hrness or not.

personaly I made my own backplate out of SS about ten years ago, and I do not use a continuos harness, simply because i never thought of it when i built mine and there was not a lot of information about them then. it has served me well so i have not replaced it...if i were to do it over again i would probably go with a single peice of webbing. but i am not really concerned about anything breaking and causing me great grief.

now to stray off the topic....I use two types of wings.
I love my OMS dbl bladder bunged wings for open ocean, deep , and wreck diving. why....cause the air doesn't shift, the wing stays in tight to your body, the air is well distributed evenly. [which doesn't work for DIR cause their stage bottles are all on one side] dbl bladder for redundence, a dry suit is foolish at depth, and swiming up from 400 feet is not going to happen. anybody who is properly weighted at 20 feet with emptly tanks will be very heavy at 300-400 so i want the back up.
a bag is out of the question at depth well at least not as good an option as your reserve bladder.

I use a dive Rite wing with Abs backplate for cave diving simple to be simplistic, and use my drysuit as back up.....which i would never do in the open ocean. I use the abs backplate to get some of the weight off of me

[JamieZ]

1

[JamieZ]

(((John S. Claypool, 34 Experienced in sport, technical, and law enforcement
diving.
Instructor qualified to teach novice through advanced nitrox.

Mike J. Elkins, 36 Experienced in sport and technical diving, pursuing
further training
in order to improve his skills and capabilities.

Larry J. Roth, 42 Experienced in military, sport, and technical diving.
29 years experience.)))

Apparently we were both wrong in away. Elkins was not the instructor though. The whole bungie wing thing was another made up story by GI to suffice his huge inflated ego. This is just my opinion, all knowledge obtained was from Techdiver Mailing List.

All the info about bungie wings was made up from people who weren't even there and from people who never did any kind of investigation. Just people who are always shooting their mouths off about who is a stroke and who isnt. Same old story.

[-BlueHole-]

try here:

www.divesystem.com

[Divesherpa]

A stainless plate is a stainless plate, an aluminum plate is an aluminum plate. If you buy Halcyon, you support the hard working (barely above minimum wage) work force of High Springs, Florida. If you buy a Dive Rite, you support the work force of much larger Lake City Florida. High Springs is about 17 minutes from my house. Lake City is about 35 Minutes from my house.
Buy either one and help MY local economy. As for wings, I've got a few hundred dives on a Dive Rite wing and a few hundred on a Halcyon wing. I've got about a hundred dives on an OMS wing too. I like the inflator hose better on the Halcyon, but for the $200 cost difference, I can buy 5 inflator assemblies and make whatever I want. I have only had a few problems with any wing. The wing in question was the Halcyon, but in all fairness, I was diving in sand restrictions and had a problem with the power inflator button jamming. I fixed it both times. I also had the deflator jam coming out of Cow Springs. That's not a wing problem though, it's a sand issue.

In the end, it really doesn't matter what you buy as long as it will meet your requirements. OMS, Dive Rite, or Halcyon Most of the people who say that you should only dive Halcyon have very little technical experience and are going on what they are told, not what they have actual experience with.

I was a Halcyon dealer a couple of years ago. My wholesale prices were close to Dive Rite's retail prices. I bought in to the whole Halcyon gimmick too. People hype it up and build it into something that is unnecessary. It's only a wing or a plate, it will not make you superman!! I sold a few (mostly to myself), then dropped the dealership. Now, I teach through dealers of OMS and Dive Rite (separate shops).

[leadweight]

Easy to don and doff.
Most comfortable.
Packs small & light.
Holds tank closest to your back.
Does not need a crotch strap with singles.
Very streamlined when used with Travel Wing.
Holds tank securely.

Main disadvantage: If you back your F-150 over it, it will probably break.

[DIR Tec Diver]

Hello,

I am not going to get sucked into another one of these battles over the best systems, but there is a reason why the worlds best divers choose Halcyon.

Get the best, your life depends on it...

[O-ring]

DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
Hello,

I am not going to get sucked into another one of these battles over the best systems, but there is a reason why the worlds best divers choose Halcyon.

Get the best, your life depends on it...
I thought John Bennett used OMS stuff? He does hold the world's OC deep dive record, doesn't he??

;)

[King Kong Matt]

LEEEEEEEEEETTTT'S GET READY TO.............

RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMBLE!!!

[Dryglove]

I use a fredt SS heavy plate and 2pc STA.Fred makes very high quality stuff.

For singles i use a 36lb halcyon pioneer wing.

I just recently started diving doubles and purchased a OMS 55lb single bladder non-bungeed wing.It is very similar to the halcyon explorer wing.My only complaint about the oms wing is the long corrugated hose.I have a shorter one on order.

[leadweight]

DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
Hello,

I am not going to get sucked into another one of these battles over the best systems, but there is a reason why the worlds best divers choose Halcyon.

Get the best, your life depends on it...

I must have missed the announcement of the worlds best divers last night. It was on the Oscars, wasn't it.

What your life mainly depends on underwater is your brain. To which I might add that there is a major disconnect around here between the recreational divers and the technical divers. Most of the recreational divers get driven off, especially by a few thoughtless members who have become obsessed with DIR. Simple questions like which computer should I use get answers like "none". That may be the DIR philosophy, but it is a useless answer to the overwhelming majority of recreational divers. (If the same question was asked by someone who is obviously contemplating technical diving then advocating the use of a bottom timer instead of a computer is a different story.) Not every DIR diver has this problem, but the few that do cause disproportionate damage.

[detroit diver]

DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
Hello,

I am not going to get sucked into another one of these battles over the best systems, but there is a reason why the worlds best divers choose Halcyon.

Get the best, your life depends on it...

I like Halcyon as much as anyone, but let's face it-a BP is pretty much a bent piece of metal with holes in it. Nobody's going to die if they use a different brand metal BP.

[O-ring]

leadweight once bubbled...


I must have missed the announcement of the worlds best divers last night. It was on the Oscars, wasn't it.

What your life mainly depends on underwater is your brain. To which I might add that there is a major disconnect around here between the recreational divers and the technical divers. Most of the recreational divers get driven off, especially by a few thoughtless members who have become obsessed with DIR. Simple questions like which computer should I use get answers like "none". That may be the DIR philosophy, but it is a useless answer to the overwhelming majority of recreational divers. (If the same question was asked by someone who is obviously contemplating technical diving then advocating the use of a bottom timer instead of a computer is a different story.) Not every DIR diver has this problem, but the few that do cause disproportionate damage.
We would all get along fine if people would just understand that you don't need a computer for solo ice diving...

[leadweight]

I try to keep my ice confined to a glass of my favorite beverage. In that situation solo or with a buddy, I don't use a computer either.

Seriously, solo ice diving is outside the accepted dive industry definition of recreational diving on two counts, overhead and no buddy.

[Dryglove]

leadweight once bubbled...


Most of the recreational divers get driven off, especially by a few thoughtless members who have become obsessed with DIR.

Thats putting a little too much on it.When i first joined this board i had never heard of DIR.I posted my questions on equipment and listened to everyones opinions and chose what best worked for me.I had several arguments with the DIR guys here about my equipment and configuration at that time.I was never run off or treated badly.I was explained how and why they do what they do.After a while i noticed the DIR guys were on to something and there equipment and styles of diving made a lot of sense to me.

I was a regular sport diver for two years before i ever found this board.I have never considered my self a bad or dangerous diver but feel i am a more confident and aware diver since picking up on DIR.Im not saying DIR or their equipment configuration is for everyone.Im not even 100% dir and feel i wont be till i take DIR fundamentals.Even then ill probably continue to use my computer on single tank dives.Do what works for you as long as your safe and confident with what your using.

[decomdoug]

I also made my own. 1/4 Alum plate, Slotted and drilled, 12' of stock belt webbed the same as the old backbacks before BC's, old S.S. buckle and a set of DR's Wings. Bands made from 1/16" X 3"X 18" S.S. Two S.S. pieces of allthread, 2 wingnuts, 4 - 1/4-24 X 2" S.S. bolts and nuts. Works with double steel 60's and 72's. I have been useing this setup for about 23 years and have had it down to 220fsw "only way to fly!"

[Rick Murchison]

What's the job? That defines the tool.
Rick

[Tekkie]

I'm pretty happy with my Halcyon BP and Wing, but then again I haven't tried out any OMS or Dive Rite equipment. In my opinion a backplate is a backplate and a harness is a harness the only thing that changes is the wing.

Tekkie

[roturner]

akforsyth once bubbled...
I have been looking around at harness/backplate systems lately and would like to get everyones opinion on which they think is better. Please feel free to add any other brand/style you wish to the conversation. TIA.

I voted for DiveRite. Main issue for me is availability. You can get Halcyon stuff over here (Europe) but it's *way* expensive and the diverite gear is nearly as good an you can pay for it without asking your wife if she would feel badly living in a smaller house.

R..

[medic13]

well thought I jump into this one, I recently bought a dive right back plate and harness ,seems good quality ect one thing I didn't know and its my fault is that dive -rite don't have single tank adapter strap slots cut into there backplate so what do you do you take to local machine shop mark spot from wings ect and have him cut them for you and de-bur them bingo good to go with out single tank adapter !!!
well as far as weight system not sure, weight belt , oms no sage weight pocket , dive-rite weight pockets they all look about same to me !!
wings well there again with out being able to dive and com-pair again i have to say personal choice seems over all Halcyon wings seems to rule but my self bought dive-rite for know till I can save money afford my second rig for doubles !!!

[roturner]

medic13 once bubbled...
well thought I jump into this one, I recently bought a dive right back plate and harness ,seems good quality ect one thing I didn't know and its my fault is that dive -rite don't have single tank adapter strap slots cut into there backplate so what do you do you take to local machine shop mark spot from wings ect and have him cut them for you and de-bur them bingo good to go with out single tank adapter !!!
well as far as weight system not sure, weight belt , oms no sage weight pocket , dive-rite weight pockets they all look about same to me !!
wings well there again with out being able to dive and com-pair again i have to say personal choice seems over all Halcyon wings seems to rule but my self bought dive-rite for know till I can save money afford my second rig for doubles !!!

IIRC there is a single tank adapter in their catalogue. Your solution wil probably also work.

R..

[roturner]

O-ring once bubbled...

We would all get along fine if people would just understand that you don't need a computer for solo ice diving...

LOL

[tomcat]

i do only singles diving in tropical waters. if you're using a bp/harness setup, heck, you don't even need weights! and i'm talking about an aluminium backplate.

i don't know about the bigger wings, but comparing halcyon's 27 pioneer wing on a bp to diverite's travel wing on a TP II, halcyon's wing does seem more stable in the water. orientate yourself any way in the water and you just stay there. no issues. with the travel wing on a TP II, i have heard numerous people complain that it rides up on you, leaving you somewhat unbalanced. maybe it's because a crotch strap doesn't come standard on it and people don't bother getting one.

i say, on top of asking what type of diving you do, you gotta also consider the specific lift that you are using and compare those wings only.

[thethumper]

I dive both (not @ the same time) DiveRite TPII w/Rec wing & a DiteRite Al BP w/a Classic wing. I changed the corr. hose to a shorter on & replaced the pull dump w/an elbow. My TPII is wonderful for singles. The BP & harness w/my dbl Catalina 3300 Al 80s are posing a trim problem. With NO weight & a 3mm Goldcore Full & 5mm farmer/shorty I sink like a stone HEAD 1ST. Gotta work on trim. The plate is on the bottom holes & the bands are all the way to the top. I have no complaints w/DR. I just can't see paying that kinda jack for what aeems to be the "same" product.
JMHO