I was reading a pretty harrowing article the other day in a magazine (OK, it was FHM's UK edition, so sue me) about a technical dive in a sink hole in South Africa to recover a body at a depth of about 930 feet, and the article contained a throwaway sentence: "Fewer people have dived recreationally below 800 feet than have set foot on the moon."
I had to say that I thought at the time that was extremely unlikely (as only 11 people have walked on the moon, according to Wikipedia), but equally, there must be damn few people who have ever gone below 800 feet for fun (point of fact, the guy writing the article was the only who survived that expedition, and from his report, that was a pretty damn close thing and only because of superhuman efforts by his surface support divers).
FHM is not what I would normally consider a source for factual research, but the guy certainly wrote as if he knew his diving pretty damn well (I'd post his name, except I can't recall it, and I don't have my copy anymore), and he did a decent job of trying to explain it all to a non-diving audience, so I did wonder if that comment might be correct.
Does anyone know?
deepstops
June 4th, 2008, 09:59 PM
Recreationally speaking, I'd bet he's right.
But commercial divers go deeper than that every day.
I was reading a pretty harrowing article the other day in a magazine (OK, it was FHM's UK edition, so sue me) about a technical dive in a sink hole in South Africa to recover a body at a depth of about 930 feet, and the article contained a throwaway sentence: "Fewer people have dived recreationally below 800 feet than have set foot on the moon."
I had to say that I thought at the time that was extremely unlikely (as only 11 people have walked on the moon, according to Wikipedia), but equally, there must be damn few people who have ever gone below 800 feet for fun (point of fact, the guy writing the article was the only who survived that expedition, and from his report, that was a pretty damn close thing and only because of superhuman efforts by his surface support divers).
FHM is not what I would normally consider a source for factual research, but the guy certainly wrote as if he knew his diving pretty damn well (I'd post his name, except I can't recall it, and I don't have my copy anymore), and he did a decent job of trying to explain it all to a non-diving audience, so I did wonder if that comment might be correct.
Does anyone know?
I believe that you are referring to David Shaw and Don Shirley who dove in South Africa at Bushman's hole.
Dave Shaw died while recovering the body of another diver that perished there years ago. Both bodies were recovered when they pulled up the line.:(
Google it for more info.
Safe Diving
Rhone Man
June 4th, 2008, 10:10 PM
I believe that you are referring to David Shaw and Don Shirley who dove in South Africa at Bushman's hole.
Dave Shaw died while recovering the body of another diver that perished there years ago. Both bodies were recovered when they pulled up the line.:(
Google it for more info.
Safe Diving
That's exactly who the article referred to. Thank you. You obviously know the story but I had never heard it before - it was pretty harrowing.
If the data is correct and I counted correctly, there's been 13 dives below 800' but some were done by the same diver so the FHM article is correct.
icestac
June 4th, 2008, 10:20 PM
I believe that you are referring to David Shaw and Don Shirley who dove in South Africa at Bushman's hole.
Dave Shaw died while recovering the body of another diver that perished there years ago. Both bodies were recovered when they pulled up the line.:(
Google it for more info.
"Raising the Dead" is a great book on the David Shaw and a compelling read if you find it.
~Jeff
leko916
June 4th, 2008, 10:28 PM
On a side note, here is a FULL version of the Dave Shaw story
Dave Shaw | Outside Online (http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200508/dave-shaw-1.html)
This article gives the full details of the dives, including depths, and details about what ultimately took his life.
Walter
June 5th, 2008, 06:53 AM
They filmed the process and made it into a documentary.
only 11 people have walked on the moon, according to Wikipedia
Never trust Wikipedia. Each Apollo landing (the only manned moon landings to date) has resulted in two people walking on the moon. Apollo's 11, 12, 14, 15, 16 & 17 landed on the moon for a total of 12 people, they are:
1. Neil Armstrong
2. Buzz Aldrin
3. Charles Conrad, Jr.
4. Alan L. Bean
5. Alan B. Shepard, Jr.
6. Edgar D. Mitchel
7. David R. Scott
8. James B. Irwin
9. John W. Young
10. Charles M. Duke, Jr.
11. Eugene A. Cernan
12. Harrison H. Schmitt
Rhone Man
June 5th, 2008, 07:53 AM
According to the list posted by icestac above, only 7 people have recreationally dived below 800 feet recreationally (although some of them more than once):
1. S. Exley
2. J. Bowden
3. N. Gomes
4. J. Bennett
5. G.M. de Oliveira
6. D. Shaw
7. P. Bernabe
So it looks as if Don Shirley's assertion was accurate.
I noticed Don Shirley's name was not on the list. Pretty brave to try and rescue David Shaw having never been to that depth before yourself.
deepstops
June 5th, 2008, 08:17 AM
as only 11 people have walked on the moon, according to Wikipedia
I'm not sure which Wiki page you were reading but this one lists 12 moon walkers: List of Apollo astronauts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apollo_astronauts)
bleeb
June 5th, 2008, 10:58 AM
Recreationally speaking, I'd bet he's right.
But commercial divers go deeper than that every day.
And similarly, there have been exactly zero people that have been to the Moon recreationally.
Sounds more like a factoid worded to look impressive but is really an apples-to-watermelons comparison.
Mike Edmonston
June 5th, 2008, 11:15 AM
And similarly, there have been exactly zero people that have been to the Moon recreationally.
Not to mention that all 12 were on closed circuit rebreathers! :D
bleeb
June 5th, 2008, 11:48 AM
And similarly, there have been exactly zero people that have been to the Moon recreationally.
Not to mention that all 12 were on closed circuit rebreathers! :D
:rofl3:
Walter
June 5th, 2008, 12:01 PM
And similarly, there have been exactly zero people that have been to the Moon recreationally.
LOL! I love it!
Rhone Man
June 5th, 2008, 12:02 PM
It does remind of another famous 'apples to oranges' comparison that I have heard more than once:
"More people have climbed Mount Everest than have dived with Great White Sharks."
Probably true (I am reliably informed by people who have done it that you get about 12-20 new ascendees a day up Everest), but not really relevant to anything.
bleeb
June 5th, 2008, 12:08 PM
It does remind of another famous 'apples to oranges' comparison that I have heard more than once:
"More people have climbed Mount Everest than have dived with Great White Sharks."
Probably true (I am reliably informed by people who have done it that you get about 12-20 new ascendees a day up Everest), but not really relevant to anything.
At least most of those are on OC, even if it is without a mouthpiece. :eyebrow:
Gombessa
June 5th, 2008, 01:33 PM
And similarly, there have been exactly zero people that have been to the Moon recreationally.
BBC ON THIS DAY | 6 | 1971: Man plays golf on the Moon (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/6/newsid_4093000/4093061.stm) :eyebrow:
nadwidny
June 5th, 2008, 11:03 PM
Not to mention that all 12 were on closed circuit rebreathers! :D
Considering it was more or less a commercial operation one would think they would rather have gone surface supply.
I guess the length of the umbilical was a bit of a problem.
I was just doing some reading around on this, and I noticed that Mark Ellyatt's dive in Thailand is not on this list. Was Ellyatt's dive regarded as "disqualified" for some reason?
BarryNL
June 15th, 2008, 05:33 PM
That's exactly who the article referred to. Thank you. You obviously know the story but I had never heard it before - it was pretty harrowing.
You can find the video of the dive from Shaw's head cam and some extra documentary here:
YouTube - The Last Dive of David Shaw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF4iFJ-G74o)
danemeyer20
June 16th, 2008, 02:10 PM
didnt know they had a video of that, i cant even imagine what was going through his head. dam that would suck. RIP
PuyallupCoug
July 17th, 2008, 02:29 PM
***edit*** someone beat me to the punch. Disregard this message.
Thalassamania
July 17th, 2008, 02:49 PM
Er ... what's "recreational" in this context?
Rhone Man
July 22nd, 2008, 09:28 PM
Just as an epistle on the OP, I was reading Gary Gentile's The Technical Diving Handbook (good book by the way, speaking as a non-technical diver reading it out of interest) and he was cross referring to a Navy study that was published in 1989 about tests on the use of rebreathers below 850 feet.
So although much military stuff is classified, I think we can probably take it as read that the US Navy was diving to those depths (and publishing the results) whilst mullet haircuts were still in fashion, and back when everyone still thought Kevin Costner could act.
Scared Silly
July 22nd, 2008, 11:33 PM
It does remind of another famous 'apples to oranges' comparison that I have heard more than once:
"More people have climbed Mount Everest than have dived with Great White Sharks."
Probably true (I am reliably informed by people who have done it that you get about 12-20 new ascendees a day up Everest), but not really relevant to anything.
There has been somewhere around 3000 ascents of Everest. Typically 150-300 during the month of May each year.
String
July 23rd, 2008, 12:33 PM
Er ... what's "recreational" in this context?
In my view if you're diving for fun/hobby/without financial reward its a recreation so qualifies as recreational.
Thalassamania
July 23rd, 2008, 02:04 PM
And if you're diving for "fame and fortune" that will (hopefully) turn into cash on the lecture circuit?
Zer0
July 26th, 2008, 10:17 PM
Interesting read....
A Journey To 308 Metres - The Deepest Open Circuit Scuba Dive Ever (http://www.tech-dive-academy.com/journey.html)
DoogaDiver
July 17th, 2009, 04:38 PM
So although much military stuff is classified, I think we can probably take it as read that the US Navy was diving to those depths (and publishing the results) whilst mullet haircuts were still in fashion, and back when everyone still thought Kevin Costner could act.
Hold the phone!
When did mullets go out of fashion?
On a serious note, I spent the last two days researching David Shaw, his world record breaking dive, his last dive, and his life in general. He was a remarkable man and a remarkable diver. There are several videos available on Youtube which include the footage from Dave's helmet camera, as well as one which included commentary from Don Shirley. I also read the final accident findings, which are very insightful and educational. Those findings, along with many other great articles are available on Don Shirley's website here :http://www.technicaldivingafrica.com/home.html.
David Shaw's personal website has been left completely untouched since his fatal dive. The tab detailing the plans for the body recovery details the plans leading up the dive day, as well as for the follow-on days. He has several lengthy reports from previous deep dives, to include the dive during which he discovered Deon's body. The website is both informative and chilling.
Gdaaym8z
October 9th, 2010, 11:40 AM
I realize this is an old thread but just read through it from a link in the current "Everest" thread. I didn't see anyone else mention this but Dave Shaw's website is still up and viewable. It obviously hasn't been updated since his death. It has some of his journal/dive log entries. Interesting stuff.
DEEP CAVE (http://deepcave.com/pages/3/index.htm)
Gday.
neuro
October 9th, 2010, 02:08 PM
I was just doing some reading around on this, and I noticed that Mark Ellyatt's dive in Thailand is not on this list. Was Ellyatt's dive regarded as "disqualified" for some reason?
Actually, this list is wrong. Not only Mark Ellyatt is missing, but also polish diver Dariusz Wilamowski, who hit 246m in the Garda lake (IT). Yes, in COLD water ;]
Cheers,
p.
Tortuga68
October 9th, 2010, 02:15 PM
That would probably be because the thread was started before Daruisz made the dive
And there was some controversy surrounding the actual depth of Ellyat's dive
Dr Wu
October 9th, 2010, 02:25 PM
Actually, this list is wrong. Not only Mark Ellyatt is missing, but also polish diver Dariusz Wilamowski, who hit 246m in the Garda lake (IT). Yes, in COLD water ;]
Cheers,
p.
It also does not include any of the bodies on the bottom of the ocean that at some point hit 800 feet on the way down.
Thalassamania
October 9th, 2010, 03:17 PM
I've been to way more than 800 feet (in a submersible) but I've never been to the moon, once upon a time I did hope to be able to go there.
Back in the mid 1980s I went to dinner with Alan Shepard after a conference, it was a few of early astronauts (Mercury and Gemini) and a bunch of underwater types. The underwater folks were giving Shepard a hard time about the money that went into the space program and how little was being spent on undersea work. He turned to us and said, "I know what's really going on here, on the last moon shot I got to go and none of you did."
Hammerhead
October 24th, 2010, 01:18 AM
On a serious note, I spent the last two days researching David Shaw, his world record breaking dive, his last dive, and his life in general. He was a remarkable man and a remarkable diver.
I live in Hong Kong and knew Dave socially. Never dived with him, but talked a bit of tech and rebreathers a couple of times (another friend of mine was John Bennet (http://www.pacificdivingllc.com/jbmemoriam.html)), so we had a bit in common.
Not sure if my memory is 100% on this, but I know it's close; Dave died before he had completed 350 dives, which seems a very low number to what he was trying to achieve on his final dive.
From others I spoke to after the event, it became obvious that nothing was going to get in his way.
John was similarly driven, although in his case, his death has the feel of a freak accident.
In either case, both men left a partner and children behind, which saddens me.
Tortuga68
October 24th, 2010, 05:07 AM
IIRC Shaw had 333 logged dives
Clearly he was a talented diver, but it's possible that if he'd had more experience he may have survived what turned out to be his final dive
He did his certification training in Puerto Galera, but I don't know if he knew JB
Rhone Man
October 24th, 2010, 08:56 AM
Don't want to be disrespectful to the dead, but I am told that when more experienced cave divers watch the video of Shaw's death, they can just feel it going wrong as "little" bad decisions continue to mount up. I think Philip Finch wrote something to that effect in his book.
Just saying.
Dr Wu
October 24th, 2010, 10:57 PM
?.. "little" bad decisions continue to mount up.
The entire dive was a bad decision.
Unless it's primary goal was a grab for attention. In that case it worked well.
People are still talking about it.
Which is something.
Rhone Man
October 25th, 2010, 07:28 AM
The entire dive was a bad decision.
I'd probably agree with that. I should probably have said "little errors of execution".
Hammerhead
October 28th, 2010, 11:50 PM
Don't want to be disrespectful to the dead, but I am told that when more experienced cave divers watch the video of Shaw's death, they can just feel it going wrong as "little" bad decisions continue to mount up. I think Philip Finch wrote something to that effect in his book.
Just saying.
I'd recommend that people do not watch the video- it's very disturbing, and yes, you can just see it all going wrong.
tyesai
October 29th, 2010, 04:04 AM
I'd recommend that people do not watch the video- it's very disturbing, and yes, you can just see it all going wrong.
