30 or 40LB wing?? Advice

Well I'm about ready to buy a new wing. Not sure what size to get. I'm thinking the 30lb. I'm 6'1" 250lbs and do a couple types of diving. In Carribean I usually use about 14 pounds of lead with no exposure suit. 18 with 2/3 mm wet suit. and use 80 AL tanks. When home and diving in quarries I use 7mm Suit and single HP119 Steel tank. I think I normally need a little over 20 pounds of lead. I also have a new Drysuit I have not used yet but will be trying in the near future DUI TLS 350. I THINK the use of the steel HP119 might be pushing the 30. Any Advice????
Thanks
David

DavidHickey:

Well I'm about ready to buy a new wing. Not sure what size to get. I'm thinking the 30lb. I'm 6'1" 250lbs and do a couple types of diving. In Carribean I usually use about 14 pounds of lead with no exposure suit. 18 with 2/3 mm wet suit. and use 80 AL tanks. When home and diving in quarries I use 7mm Suit and single HP119 Steel tank. I think I normally need a little over 20 pounds of lead. I also have a new Drysuit I have not used yet but will be trying in the near future DUI TLS 350. I THINK the use of the steel HP119 might be pushing the 30. Any Advice????
Thanks
David

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Exposure suit buoyancy largely determines the required wing size, not the cylinder.

If you need ~22 lbs of lead + about 2 lbs of regulator, ad ~2 lbs of empty steel tank, you are using about 26 lbs of total ballast. 2-4 lbs of this is necessary to sink your current BC. That leaves about 22-24 lbs of buoyancy for you and your suit.

In fresh water you might be a 1-2 lbs buoyant.

If your heaviest wetsuit is only about 20 lbs buoyant you don't need or want a 40 lbs wing.

Do you want to tow a 40 lbs wing around in warm water?

Tobin

I use a 40 lb wing for doubles, and it's plenty for that, so I'd imagine it's overkill for a singles rig. My husband uses a 30lb wing with a steel 120 and a steel backplate, and it's plenty of lift.

cool_hardware52:

Do you want to tow a 40 lbs wing around in warm water?

Tobin

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Nope, but not sure I want to tow around a 30 lb wing either. Looks to me as if this is becoming at least a three wing hobby, warm water, dry suit and doubles. I was stuck on the 30lb, 40 lb question also. With a dry suit I was needing 30 lb's of lead, so maybe I would make it, maybe not. Then I had a night mare, I am at the back of a boat, take off my rig, with my pony, and it sinks. I have to get a student to go down and get it for me.

Ten lb's of lift in in salt water is slightly bigger then a six inch cube. Spread that out around your wing and I am not sure the increase in drag coefficient is much.

So maybe a 20-25 wing for warm and a 40 for cold.

Should be great for sales Tobin.

adios don O

donooo:

Nope, but not sure I want to tow around a 30 lb wing either. Looks to me as if this is becoming at least a three wing hobby, warm water, dry suit and doubles. I was stuck on the 30lb, 40 lb question also. With a dry suit I was needing 30 lb's of lead, so maybe I would make it, maybe not. Then I had a night mare, I am at the back of a boat, take off my rig, with my pony, and it sinks. I have to get a student to go down and get it for me.

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A 30 lbs buoyant drysuit is at the top of the range, but not unknown.

Lets assume you have a 32 lbs buoyant drysuit, and are using a steel tank and Stainless backplate. The plate and harness are worth about 6 lbs and the empty steel tank about -2, and a reg is about -2 that means your rig will provide about 10 lbs of ballast with an empty cylinder and be about -18 with a full tank. Even the worst conceivable pony set up is not going to be 12 lbs negative. How again does your rig sink with a 30 lbs wing?

donooo:

So maybe a 20-25 wing for warm and a 40 for cold.

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The largest singles wing we make is a 40, and you will have a hard time convincing me you need one. (Most of these are sold to PSD divers who are vastly overweighted doing zero vis searches on the bottom)


Any bc needs to be able to float the diver's rig at the surface if they ditch it with a full tank, and be able to compensate for the maximum change in buoyancy of the divers exposure suit.

How many single tank rigs will be more than 30 lbs negative? I haven't seen one

How many wetsuits will be 30+ lbs positive? I haven't seen one of these either.

How many drysuits will be 30 lbs positive? These I have seen, but it has always been with undergarments necessary to long exposures. Long exposures require more gas than most can get from a single tank.

True warm water diving can be accomplished with very small wings.

Consider a SS plate, reg and full al 80. Together these will be about -10 lbs.

Consider the typical 3 mm full suit. 4-8 lbs positive is typical.

If your rig is -10 and you suit cannot loose more than 8 lbs of buoyancy due to compression you can use a truly tiny wing.

Tobin

Yep Tobin, all of that is right, Except, I am talking dry suit and 30 lb's with an AL 80. Yes it is a function of underwear and yes you can wear a weight belt. Despite the fact that I should wear a weight belt I am looking at a rig that will weigh real close to 30 lb's. The reality is most of us are looking at things like weight plates, weighted STA's and weight pockets for harnesses to avoid a weight belt. (Yes my pony is only around -6) If I slipped out of my harness at the surface, with the pony attached, it would/will weight more then 30 lb's. If I stay in the harness, no problem. Maybe even a 20 lb wing.

With practice and experience I hope to get down under 30lb's and maybe will go to a weight harness or back to a belt, but right now I need 30lb's with my dry suit. My last dive with a shop BC actually took 32 lb's with an Al 80. It looks like the BC was at least a +4.

I will let you know where I end up. My first salt water, dry suit dive, with an AL 80 will be with 30 lb's. I hope that I can drop some of that. So I will be the first 30 lb single rig that you haven't seen.

O, and you left off my 8 lb weight plates, 6 lb STA and assumed a steel tank.

don O

donooo:

Yep Tobin, all of that is right, Except, I am talking dry suit and 30 lb's with an AL 80. Yes it is a function of underwear and yes you can wear a weight belt. Despite the fact that I should wear a weight belt I am looking at a rig that will weigh real close to 30 lb's. The reality is most of us are looking at things like weight plates, weighted STA's and weight pockets for harnesses to avoid a weight belt.

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A 6-8 lbs weight belt is not a big deal, and using one would allow you to safely use a 30 lbs wing.

In cold water you won't notice much difference between a 30 or 40 lbs wing, not in a 7mm wetsuit or a drysuit with all the trimmings.

It's the warm water diving where a 40 compared to a 30 will be noticed.

Having a selection of wings sized to a specific application is great, but most of my customers want one wing to serve for cold water and warm water diving. The key to making a reasonable choice is to avoid oversizing the wing for cold water application.

Hanging all your ballast on your rig does exactly that.

Tobin

cool_hardware52:

A 6-8 lbs weight belt is not a big deal, and using one would allow you to safely use a 30 lbs wing.

In cold water you won't notice much difference between a 30 or 40 lbs wing, not in a 7mm wet suit or a drys uit with all the trimmings.

It's the warm water diving where a 40 compared to a 30 will be noticed.

Having a selection of wings sized to a specific application is great, but most of my customers want one wing to serve for cold water and warm water diving. The key to making a reasonable choice is to avoid oversizing the wing for cold water application.

Hanging all your ballast on your rig does exactly that.

Tobin

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Yep, using a weight belt might be where I end up.
Agree, in my dry suit the difference should not show between a 30 and 40 lb wing. Agreed, in warm water I will have a 25 lb. wing.

But we might agree that 30lb's is overkill for most warm water diving.

So this is starting to remind me of the discussion of having a unique wing for singles and a different wing for doubles as one wing is not right for both. I suspect that I am not, nor will be the first guy with different wings for warm and cold water diving rather then trying to find the place in the middle.

As for hanging all of my ballast on my rig, yea I agree, but, I never bought a weight integrated BC either. I am just trying to figure out weight, balance, comfort and convinence with a new rig. Practicing in 55 degree water sucks.

don o