I will be purchasing a scooter sometime this year. At first I was dead set on a Gavin but have decided to at least look at a SS. Just curious to know what people think about the SS.
If you look at the pictures on the ss webpage the scooter just looks like a better made product. They G and SS both use Mako motors, I don't think the SS is rewound, and have the same rear end. Also the battery compartment just looks sturdier.
The SS has a single motorcycle type grip instead of the mako style. I have never used either scooters but a friend told me that the Gavin style handle was uncomfortable after a short period of scootering. You have to bend your wrist to hold the handle and engage the trigger. The SS grip looks more comfortable and I like the idea of a twist switch. But I have heard that the SS grip is not as sturdy as the G.
Anyway if you have any opinions of either please post them.
WreckWriter
March 13th, 2003, 10:25 AM
The ONLY thing I like about the SS is the grip, don't care for the twist throttle thing but I do like the angle. Gavins are faster, sturdier, and support from George is unmatched. I recommend Gavin.
WW
SLJ
March 13th, 2003, 11:48 AM
I agree with WW
SLJ
Uncle Pug
March 13th, 2003, 05:08 PM
I would like to try an SS.
You have to get used to how to hold the trigger and have the correct length of bridle our you will get cramps in your palm using the Gavin... at least that was my farm animal experience :D
DIR Tec Diver
March 13th, 2003, 06:35 PM
I have 2 Gavin scooters. They are absolutely incredible. Yes they are expensive, but you get what you pay for. I know Trey (George Irvine), and he is not only probably the world's best diver, but he knows scooters better than anyone, and that is why the world's top divers always choose Gavin. You get complete unquestioning support, and you will always have the confidence in knowing that your equipment is the best in the world.
This is your life, don't settle for anything but the best!
JamieZ
March 13th, 2003, 06:36 PM
Well I disagree on Gavins being faster. They have the same rewound motor. Which is basically the same motor thats in the Mako's, Aeris Voyager and some Tekna's. Except those three are not rewound for better performance. Here's my thoughts being that I own an SS. Their better balanced, their engineered with real parts unlike the Gavin with cheap plastic handles and triggers and a cheap PVC motor housing which defeats the purpose of having a higher amp motor because there's nothing to displace the heat like the aluminum housing on the SS scooter.
Scooters are the most basic piece of machinery, you dont need someone to fix your scooter for you if you can hang a picture on the wall. (No offense WW because I'm sure you could fix it yourself.) Besides if you bought an SS you wouldnt be fixing it you would be riding it. All and all you really cant go wrong with either one. I purchased an SS because Rodney truly makes a better product. If you cant get the 2 side by side look at pics on the web pages side by side. GI's looks like a handy man put it together Rodney's looks like a Technician/Engineer put it together. SS grip is solid HDPE not hollow.
PS DIR REC DIVER we heard you 300 other times that your Georges friend and how well you know him bla bla bla. Get a clue no one CARES. Puppet boy!
WreckWriter
March 13th, 2003, 08:18 PM
DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
I know Trey (George Irvine)
How does George feel about you talking up rebreathers on the Internet? I know him too and I'd be real surprized if his opinion of that was expressed in words that didn't involve livestock.
WW
omar
March 13th, 2003, 09:08 PM
Rodney Nairne builds the SS.
omar
JamieZ
March 13th, 2003, 09:31 PM
Your right Omar. Dont I feel stupid. I dont know where I got Darin maybe I was thinking of his last name or something, then again I think this Rec DIR Diver guy has got me doing loops. I edited it.
icediver
March 14th, 2003, 03:16 AM
I've owned an SS for a year now. I have the short and long haul. I did my research on the net and it appeared that the SS was made of sturdier components. The handle was one of the biggest factors in my choice, when your doing 2 hour scooter dives the last thing you want is wrist fatigue.
I have spoken to Rodney from time to time. However it was not due to problems with the scooter as it seems to be bullit proof.
T
lucid
March 14th, 2003, 08:29 AM
Its my understanding that the Gavin and SS have the exact same motor and rear end. The gavin has a larger relay (Couldn't a larger relay be put in a SS). The SS has an aluminum motor housing which I have heard helps with overheating. I am no electric engineer but wouldn't excessive motor heat lower burn time? The bulkheads in the SS and the entire battery carriage looks like its higher quality. Sucks that I would have to listen to all the stroke stuff if I go with a SS.
:confused:
lucid
March 14th, 2003, 08:54 AM
NM, I was just checking out dir quest and have decided that its not worth the farm animal jokes that will go along with owning a SS scooter :P
WYDT
March 14th, 2003, 09:38 AM
lucid once bubbled...
Its my understanding that the Gavin and SS have the exact same motor and rear end. The gavin has a larger relay (Couldn't a larger relay be put in a SS). The SS has an aluminum motor housing which I have heard helps with overheating. I am no electric engineer but wouldn't excessive motor heat lower burn time? The bulkheads in the SS and the entire battery carriage looks like its higher quality. Sucks that I would have to listen to all the stroke stuff if I go with a SS.
:confused:
Just some of my thoughts since I've dove both and own a Gavin....
The heat dissapation thing is BS. These motors are continuous duty dc motors that should not get hot at all. If they do something is wrong!
I have a Gavin and have driven an SS. I think my Gavin is a bit faster than the SS I drove but not a great deal. The Gavin is very well made and there's nothting "cheap" about it. I've never heard of anyone breaking the handle outside of an auto accident where the scooter was ejected from the car. In that case the handle and shroud were replaced and the scooter was ready to go.
I think the motorcycle style throttle on the SS is a bad idea. There's no way to lock it off. Sure you can turn the little plastic knob against it but if it were to twist on (the screw only uses friction to hold the handle) you would be in a world of shi+ as you'd now have a scooter locked ON. Also why would you want a "cruise control" feature on a scooter? I'd prefer my scooter to instantly turn off if I let off the trigger. Some say it's more comfortable to drive the SS but I can drive my Gavin with two fingers through small passages that twist and turn and the wkpp guys have driven them for 7+ hours at a time without problems.
DSAO!
Rob
WYDT
March 14th, 2003, 09:41 AM
icediver once bubbled...
I've owned an SS for a year now. I have the short and long haul. I did my research on the net and it appeared that the SS was made of sturdier components. The handle was one of the biggest factors in my choice, when your doing 2 hour scooter dives the last thing you want is wrist fatigue.
I have spoken to Rodney from time to time. However it was not due to problems with the scooter as it seems to be bullit proof.
T
Wrist fatigue is not a problem. You shouldn't have to horse the scooter around and I can drive my Gavin with my index finger and thumb with my hand just laying on top of the handle.
WKPP divers dive these things a lot longer than 2hrs, if wrist fatigue were a factor they would have designed a better handle.
DSAO!
Rob
MikeFerrara
March 14th, 2003, 10:15 AM
We’ll be right back after this message from our sponsors.
DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
I have 2 Gavin scooters. They are absolutely incredible. Yes they are expensive, but you get what you pay for. I know Trey (George Irvine), and he is not only probably the world's best diver, but he knows scooters better than anyone, and that is why the world's top divers always choose Gavin. You get complete unquestioning support, and you will always have the confidence in knowing that your equipment is the best in the world.
This is your life, don't settle for anything but the best!
ericfine50
March 14th, 2003, 10:36 AM
Insert DIR 3 Theme Music
lucid
March 14th, 2003, 10:46 AM
DIR Theme Music! (http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/multimedia/sun-sounds/movies/starwars/empire.au)
JamieZ
March 14th, 2003, 12:11 PM
I'd rather be called a farm animal then have a scooter I have to repair here and there. Just because its DIR or is used by the WKKK doesnt mean its a better product. The only reason why its used by the WKKK is because George wont let anyone use anything else. Its an easy way to keep selling Gavins.
Either one you buy Lucid you'll own a really nice new tool/toy. I have never gotten as much enjoyment in diving as I have on my scooter.
PS. If you havent gotten your finning techniques mastered yet wait on the scooter because if you dont you wont have the time when your flying around with a huge grin on your face.
I edited this post because its not worth argueing over. Good luck with your purchase.
WreckWriter
March 14th, 2003, 12:16 PM
scubanarc once bubbled...
Its really to bad that Lucid is going to buy an inferior product just because its DIR approved.
Either one you buy Lucid you'll own a really nice new tool/toy. I have never gotten as much enjoyment in diving as I have on my scooter.
While I don't agree that the Gavin is inferior I do agree that Lucid should make his choice based on things other than what someone might say. Do the research, try the products, then choose based on that. Who cares what someone on a mailing list says?
There's plenty of divers in South Florida that use each type.
I also agree 100% that it will transform your diving and greatly increase the fun factor, whichever one you get.
WW
JamieZ
March 14th, 2003, 12:31 PM
do agree that Lucid should make his choice based on things other than what someone might say. Do the research, try the products, then choose based on that. Who cares what someone on a mailing list says
How correct you are. It should be your choice from the research you've done which includes riding both and taking both of them apart to see which one is better built.
icediver
March 14th, 2003, 01:21 PM
WYDT once bubbled...
Wrist fatigue is not a problem. You shouldn't have to horse the scooter around and I can drive my Gavin with my index finger and thumb with my hand just laying on top of the handle.
WKPP divers dive these things a lot longer than 2hrs, if wrist fatigue were a factor they would have designed a better handle.
DSAO!
Rob
I noticed you didn't mention anything about the components.
T:wacko:
Cave Diver
March 14th, 2003, 01:32 PM
scubanarc once bubbled...
I'd rather be called a farm animal then have a scooter I have to repair here and there. Just because its DIR or is used by the WKKK doesnt mean its a better product. The only reason why its used by the WKKK is because George wont let anyone use anything else. Its an easy way to keep selling Gavins.
The WKKK is the little known, but much feared "deep south" branch of the WKPP.
Most of them are proudly known as RND (red neck divers) instead of DIR (doing it right) divers and they prefer to dive in white bedsheets rather than the DUI TLS 350.
I would tell you a bit more about them, but I think it would probably end up moderated anyway, so I'll spare them the trouble and not post it. :D
WYDT
March 14th, 2003, 01:49 PM
icediver once bubbled...
I noticed you didn't mention anything about the components.
T:wacko:
What are you talking about?? Are you trying to put words in my mouth?
I'll put my Gavin up against any SS any day and yes I've dove and seen inside both!
They are both good machines I just think the handle on the SS is a bad idea and there is nothing at all wrong with the handle on the Gavin!
Most people I know don't just own Gavins because someone tells them they have to (no one told me that!). They own them because they are the best machine made for the job... period!
WYDT
March 14th, 2003, 01:52 PM
scubanarc once bubbled...
How correct you are. It should be your choice from the research you've done which includes riding both and taking both of them apart to see which one is better built.
Agree there... that's exactly what I did.
Aquamaniac
March 14th, 2003, 01:56 PM
Some arguements just arnt worth getting into Rob.........
WYDT
March 14th, 2003, 02:07 PM
Aquamaniac once bubbled...
Some arguements just arnt worth getting into Rob.........
I know, I know... It just irritates me when someone pulls out the "you did it because you were told to" crap.
I'll try to keep my mouth shut now :rolleyes: :nospeak:
Aquamaniac
March 14th, 2003, 02:24 PM
Besides, the Wakulla debate looks like its alot more fun!:D
Damn she is a fiesty one!
WYDT
March 14th, 2003, 02:29 PM
Aquamaniac once bubbled...
Besides, the Wakulla debate looks like its alot more fun!:D
Damn she is a fiesty one!
Yeah, that one's getting out of hand! :wacko:
Of course it's a semiannual event... debating all the same ole things... over and over.... ;)
Uncle Pug
March 14th, 2003, 02:46 PM
WYDT once bubbled...
I'll try to keep my mouth shut nowDid somebody tell you to keep your mouth shut or is this your own idea?
wb416
March 14th, 2003, 02:52 PM
lucid once bubbled...
DIR Theme Music! (http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/multimedia/sun-sounds/movies/starwars/empire.au)
I think this is the real DIR3 theme song (http://www.bayareadivers.net/wb416/downloads/PeruvianSkies.mp3).
Be warned... Peruvian Skies is 6MB....
WYDT
March 14th, 2003, 02:55 PM
Uncle Pug once bubbled...
Did somebody tell you to keep your mouth shut or is this your own idea?
ZZZZIIIIINNNNG! It was my idea... :D
JamieZ
March 15th, 2003, 12:47 PM
WYDT,
You can have the last word about scooter preference after I say this one last thing.
First off you should read more about DC or AC motors if you think because their continous duty that they dont produce heat. When they heat up they need some way to dispate the heat and this is is why SS scooters use aluminum housings on their motors. Even if they only get warm and you have no way to get rid of it it still ends up being wasted energy.
I can see why your trying to justify your scooter and its because you paid allot of money for it and you dont want someone bashing it. Well I paid allot for mine too and I'm in this post for the same reasons and thats also why I purchased an SS their better built.
The speed thing . Gavins are no faster. Even if they were who cares how many times are you going to half to start and stop that scooter to adjust for prop pitch because your going to fast to go through small tunnels. Remember start and stop brings on higher amp draws which produces more heat. You say you've rode both, so have I. I've also had both apart side by side (big deal).
Motors produce heat "FACT" and if there's no way to get rid of it, eventually starts to burn the windings then eventually starts to burn out the motor. Ask any electrical engineer, ask any technician that works on motors every day (me). Ask Gamble who has worked on scooters for along time and still does. I'm in no way saying Gavins are junk but I am saying SS scooters are way better built.
Go ahead fire away. If there's any engineers reading this please tell me what I'm wrong about and if I'm right about any of it. Physics tells me I'm right.
Every device that converts one form of energy to another, loses some in the process. All of the energy consumed, eventually ends up as heat. The more efficient the process, the less heat is generated internally.
The little screw you talk of. You know the one you say locks off the throttle by friction instead of other means. This threads into a hole and does not use friction to secure it. It stays locked.
I'm not bashing you so please dont respond in a non-proffesional way. I'm just trying to explain to you that your mis-informed.
Aquamaniac
March 15th, 2003, 01:06 PM
scubanarc once bubbled...
WYDT,
You can have the last word about scooter preference after I say this one last thing.
First off you should read more about DC or AC motors if you think because their continous duty that they dont produce heat. When they heat up they need some way to dispate the heat and this is is why SS scooters use aluminum housings on their motors. Even if they only get warm and you have no way to get rid of it it still ends up being wasted energy.
.........
Motors produce heat "FACT" and if there's no way to get rid of it, eventually starts to burn the windings then eventually starts to burn out the motor. Ask any electrical engineer, ask any technician that works on motors every day (me). Ask Gamble who has worked on scooters for along time and still does. I'm in no way saying Gavins are junk but I am saying SS scooters are way better built.
Go ahead fire away. If there's any engineers reading this please tell me what I'm wrong about and if I'm right about any of it. Physics tells me I'm right.
Every device that converts one form of energy to another, loses some in the process. All of the energy consumed, eventually ends up as heat. The more efficient the process, the less heat is generated internally.
As an electrical Design engineer, specializing in electric motor/generator insulation systems, All I want to say is.......
You really should be more knowledgable in topic you are discusing before you go rubbing people up the wrong way.
In some respects you are correct, but in some you are far wrong, read up a bit more. Look into I squared R losses. The answers are all there.
Aquamaniac
March 15th, 2003, 01:23 PM
Lemme also just point out that WYDT said Gav's do not get hot.
THAT is a FACT.
BIG differance between a warm motor and a HOT motor.
If your a motor winder, you would also know about F Class and H class insulation systems, they can get pretty warm before doing ANY damage to the windings.
JamieZ
March 15th, 2003, 04:01 PM
So tell me what I'm right on and what I'm wrong on. Blue windings found on Gavin motors isnt from heat? Never said I was a motor winder. Said I was a Technician. Never said what kind but I do work with allot of different motors and I know they heat up. I never said anything about them getting hot but yes they do. Its caused by the constant start and stop which pulls high amps and thats with any non-variable speed scooter. So tell me what part of my post was wrong. This is not me trying to be a wise ass. Just me trying to learn as much as I can. Thats why I read this board every day. There is some very knowledgable people on here.
Since you are an Engineer, and actually I believe you. Which is better to house a motor in plastic or aluminum?
Wasnt trying to rub anyone the wrong way thats just how it comes out when you write on these boards. I just think I'm right. Maybe not about every little detail but about it being a better product, that I'm sure of. WYDT I dont even know him but knowing he owns a scooter and dives I'm sure I'd like him.
Im not qualified to compare Gav's to SS's. I have never owned either. (but Im saving madly):D
As far as the Gav's getting hot, I can only go buy what friends tell me.
What makes a better housing, plastic or Aluminum?
Open ended question.
If the motor design is poor, and inefficient, or in other words generates too many I2R losses (gets warm), then an aluminum housing would be a better option, so as to dissapate the heat generated. Remember you only need to keep the motor below its insulation class rating, most small DC motors are F class, therefore need to be kept below 155 degrees Celcius.
BUT if the motor design is good, and the operator does not overload it, then plastic is OK. This is because an efficient, correctly loaded motor does NOT generate excessive heat.
How do you make an efficient motor, or one that runs cool?
Well, that is a question that we ask our engineering staff at every board meeting :D , its what we strive toward.
Here are a few things.
1. Ensuring interlamination insulation is good quality, and making sure that there are not "shorts" in the lamination stack. Most of these problems occur when rewinding and repairing motors.
2. Ensure that the core is efficient, and "matched" to the windings. This is the core principals in winding design. Too much or too little back iron, and the losses will be high.
3. Most importantly, GET MORE COPPER IN THE SLOT!!!!!. More copper and less insulation in the slot, makes a more efficient motor. This is the MAJOR focus of new designs in windings. It is the biggest issue we have with GE and Siemens Westinghouse.
By reducing the thickness of insulation on the wire, without reducing dielectric strength, you can increase the efficiency dramatically, This is provided the winding data is modified accordingly.
Now, if you do want redesign a motor or generator, and DO need high quality insulation materials, that WILL increase efficiency, call the Engineering Manager at www.electricalfibers.com , I hear he is a Great bloke, and more than willing to help you out!:D
dave
JamieZ
March 15th, 2003, 07:16 PM
:) Thanks for the info Dave
RichLockyer
March 16th, 2003, 04:22 AM
From those photos it is impossible to tell if there is a REAL quality difference.
SS has an aluminum motor housing, Gavin has plastic. No effective difference though... the heat from the motor is still contained within the outer housing so neither will result in significantly reduced motor temperatures... there is still no good heat conduit leading to the water, unless the SS tailcone is black anodized aluminum. The SS housing looks cooler, but rule #6 doesn't apply on the bench :D
The SS legs look solid (I assume they are stainless)... not sure if I like the grips. :)
Battery connectors?
Yes, the SS connectors are high-quality Sermos power connectors with a solid, positive locking action.
The Gavin uses a connector that I am not familiar with, however, it DOES use gold contacts, which are superior in corrosion resistance. I am not aware of Sermos connectors (of that size) being available with gold contacts.
I'd actually give points to the Gavin for this part of the design for a couple of reasons:
1 - You aren't flexing the wire leads when opening the connector
2 - The positive lock isn't needed as there's no tension on the connector in the Gavin design. One side is fixed to the bulkhead.
3 - It is impossible to tell, but the SS APPEARS to simply have a hole in the bulkhead where the wire passes through from the battery compartment to the motor compartment. The Gavin is sealed, and uses the bulkhead jacks that you can see in the photo.
IF this passage is not sealed, then hydrogen from the battery compartment will pass into the motor compartment. This happened in a friend's radio controlled submarine... he made the local papers.
WYDT
March 16th, 2003, 11:55 AM
First off you should read more about DC or AC motors if you think because their continous duty that they dont produce heat. When they heat up they need some way to dispate the heat and this is is why SS scooters use aluminum housings on their motors. Even if they only get warm and you have no way to get rid of it it still ends up being wasted energy.
I'll defer to Dave on this part of the argument as I am not an engineer and he seems to have summed it up quite well.
I can see why your trying to justify your scooter and its because you paid allot of money for it and you dont want someone bashing it. Well I paid allot for mine too and I'm in this post for the same reasons and thats also why I purchased an SS their better built.
This is the part I disagree with you on. They are not better built and I believe the argument has been made effectively for the Gavin already. I'm not saying the SS is a POS, I'm just saying the Gavin is better. We're talking about "better" being a very relative term. Think of it like 14kt gold vs 18kt gold. ;)
The speed thing . Gavins are no faster. Even if they were who cares how many times are you going to half to start and stop that scooter to adjust for prop pitch because your going to fast to go through small tunnels. Remember start and stop brings on higher amp draws which produces more heat. You say you've rode both, so have I. I've also had both apart side by side (big deal).
The speed thing isn't a big deal as they both use the same rewound motors. I was just commenting mine seems a bit faster than the SS I dove but maybe it's not as it was a few months between driving the SS and my Gavin. No big deal here, they have "similar" speed.
Motors produce heat "FACT" and if there's no way to get rid of it, eventually starts to burn the windings then eventually starts to burn out the motor. Ask any electrical engineer, ask any technician that works on motors every day (me). Ask Gamble who has worked on scooters for along time and still does. I'm in no way saying Gavins are junk but I am saying SS scooters are way better built.
"way better built"? This is where I have a big problem. They are not. An aluminum motor housing does not make the scooter "way better built" and I believe Dave has proven that. Rich makes some good points as well.
Go ahead fire away. If there's any engineers reading this please tell me what I'm wrong about and if I'm right about any of it. Physics tells me I'm right.
Once again I'll defer to Dave...
Every device that converts one form of energy to another, loses some in the process. All of the energy consumed, eventually ends up as heat. The more efficient the process, the less heat is generated internally.
Once again I'll defer to Dave...
The little screw you talk of. You know the one you say locks off the throttle by friction instead of other means. This threads into a hole and does not use friction to secure it. It stays locked.
I'm pretty sure the "lock" on the SS I dove did NOT thread into a hole. Maybe Rodney has changed that as he should. Even if he has it can still get locked ON and that's not a good thing. Cruise control?? More like death control!
I'm not bashing you so please dont respond in a non-proffesional way. I'm just trying to explain to you that your mis-informed. [/B]
Looks like you are the one who's mis-informed but I'm not trying to bash you or SS either. I've said several times in this thread that SS is a good machine, I just believe and am backed up well here that Gavin is better. Not night and day better but better.
DSAO!!
Rob
RichLockyer
March 16th, 2003, 03:15 PM
WYDT once bubbled...
that SS is a good machine, I just believe and am backed up well here that Gavin is better. Not night and day better but better.
Even if the SS is better, is it good enough to be worth $100, $200, and $400 more than the Gavin?
I really hate to bring price into it, since cost is for strokes and a good quality product is worth it at ANY price (especially if it's saving your butt), but when you have two quality products that are of apparent equal quality, you then need to start taking that into consideration.
It makes sense that the Magnum scooters would cost more than the short bodies, but this takes us back to George's and the basic DIR philosophy of use the right tool for the job at hand. The cost issue has been eliminated as a factor is deciding what scooter would be purchased... if you need a small scooter for simple OW dives, you get the short. If you need hours of run time, you get the magnum.
While I'm sure that George doesn't lose any money on any of them, he makes a little more on the shorts while he makes a little less on the magnums. I'd be interested in seeing the sales figures but I'd be willing to bet that George sells a higher percentage of magnums while SS sells a higher percentage of shorts.
icediver
March 17th, 2003, 07:00 PM
The lock that you guys are talking about is not what you think. It is intended to lock the throttle in the off postion, so that you don't spin the prop when handing it on and off boats and such. So yes there is a hole drilled at the off position, and that is the only hole. If you have people using it as a cruise control that's their problem as this is not the intended design.
Just didn't want everyone to MISINFORMED.
The speed thing is a waste of time. My SS is faster than other SS's. I am sure that all G's are slower or faster than other G's.
T
WYDT
March 17th, 2003, 11:10 PM
icediver once bubbled...
The lock that you guys are talking about is not what you think. It is intended to lock the throttle in the off postion, so that you don't spin the prop when handing it on and off boats and such. So yes there is a hole drilled at the off position, and that is the only hole. If you have people using it as a cruise control that's their problem as this is not the intended design.
Just didn't want everyone to MISINFORMED.
The speed thing is a waste of time. My SS is faster than other SS's. I am sure that all G's are slower or faster than other G's.
T
If Rodney is making them fully "lock off" now that's good. They do however have a "cruise control" and it's designed to be just that....
This is copied directly from the Silent Submersion web site...
"The UV scooters replace the two Mako handles with a unique, one handed operation motorcycle style handle, which cuts power to the motor when released and also has a cruise control & lock-off feature. "
http://www.silent-submersion.com/uv/index.htm
This is a very dangerous "feature" in my opinion as it could allow the scooter to be locked ON.
Just didn't want everyone to MISINFORMED. ;)
icediver
March 18th, 2003, 12:17 AM
I stand correct. However that was not the intent when I purchased mine over two years ago. I guess there have been some changes made.
T
DIR Tec Diver
March 24th, 2003, 03:36 PM
I had a chance to use my friends SS scooter this weekend, and I thought it was quite nice. I still prefer my Gavins, but SS has done a pretty good job of copying the Gavin. I did not like the single handle on the SS, nor how it felt diving, I prefer the Gavin much much better.
The Gavin is also finished off a bit better. What I mean is it looks better machined and more refined. That is not what really counts, but hey you pay a lot of money, it better look good too.
Lastly, the service and support from Trey is a huge issue. He stands behind his Gavins 100%, and he will always be there to help out if needed. Service goes a long way in my book.
Just my thoughts...
lucid
March 24th, 2003, 04:03 PM
Ok this guy is completely full of crap.
The SS looks much cleaner than the Gavin. Take your blinders off :P
Also, I believe Gavin and SS are both copies of other scooters.
Heh, DIR Tech Diver is funny.
icediver
March 24th, 2003, 05:53 PM
He knows Trey. That might explaine it.
T
WYDT
March 25th, 2003, 10:17 AM
lucid once bubbled...
Ok this guy is completely full of crap.
The SS looks much cleaner than the Gavin. Take your blinders off :P
Also, I believe Gavin and SS are both copies of other scooters.
Heh, DIR Tech Diver is funny.
Re-engineer or copy?
Bill Gavin (an engineer who designs underwater vehicles, rebreathers, and other gear for the US Navy) and Trey basically re-engineered the Mako to make it perform better (rewound motor), last longer (more battery), and run nearly three times as deep (completely different body).
What does the SS do the Gavin doesn't??
Same motor, same body type... basically the SS is a copy of a Gavin with a different handle. Made so the people who don't like GI can buy a scooter that will do things similar to what a Gavin does (speed, depth, runtimes, etc.).
In my book that makes the SS a copy.
Also, Bill Gavin and Trey didn't design the Gavin to sell for profit. They designed it to accomplish a mission for which no other vehicles existed at the time. Gavins weren't even available to anyone not on the team for a while. Bill Gavin and Trey (GI) absorbed ALL of the research and developement costs.
