Why Ever take Advanced Open Water...

[PvtStash]

when with another 26 dives you can get your Master Diver?


I have 22 dives now and I'm looking to further my dive education in the Fall (Octoberish). I will definately have more than 50 dives by then, I'm looking at my continuing education options and see that with Advanced Open Water I get 4 specialties (excluding stress & rescue) and with Master Diver 4 specialties including stress and rescue.

My thinking is if I'm going to pay for Deep, Nav, Night, EAN, Stress & Rescue (and have over 50 dives already) I'd be a fool to have that card read Advanced when I can have it read Master, ie I'm not going to pay for it Twice.

I cant imagine there is AOW-specific training (Not the specialties) as if that were the case you'd think SSI would make AOW a pre-requisite for Master Diver (they dont).

The only reason I can think of why anyone would take AOW over the Master program is if they (for whatever reason) didnt think they could get 50 dives in.

What am I missing?

[wedivebc]

If you find a decent instructor you can actually learn something from AOW. If not it's another card to add to the deck.

[PvtStash]

that you believe there IS AOW-specific knowledge that Wouldnt be addressed in a Master program?

Is it really all the luck of the instructor draw? as if there IS no agency-sanctioned course-program/syllabus?

[salibandy]

In your case it make total sense to skip your Advance card.

But imagine someone who has done all the specialty courses and hasn't reached 50 dives. He wants to go dive a particular site but is not allowed to because he has not chosen to get an Advance card. See what I mean? In his case, it would make sense to.

[b1gcountry]

I think everyone should note that this is in the SSI forum, and IIRC, SSI does not have an AOW "class" you just need to take four complete specialty courses, including deep and nav. Once you have your four courses, you just need to apply for the card, and pay a processing fee.

If you already have your 4 specialties, you already have the AOW certification, you just haven't paid for the physical card yet.

Tom

[ucfdiver]

There's a few dive ops in S. Fl that won't let me dive on their boat because I don't have AOW, even with other cards that clearly permit me to go 100ft deep.

[Web Monkey]

when with another 26 dives you can get your Master Diver?


I have 22 dives now and I'm looking to further my dive education in the Fall (Octoberish). I will definately have more than 50 dives by then, I'm looking at my continuing education options and see that with Advanced Open Water I get 4 specialties (excluding stress & rescue) and with Master Diver 4 specialties including stress and rescue.


The various SSI levels are composed of complete individual classes like Navigation, Stress and Rescue, etc.

There is no requirement that you purchase any C-Card at any particular point, so if you're going for "Master Diver" you can wait until you've met all the requirements, then get the card.


Terry

[jonnythan]

Advanced Open Water is just 4 courses and 25 dives. Master Diver is 4 courses, Stress & Rescue, and 50 dives.

You could have your AOW card, then take Rescue to get your Master Diver card. Master Diver and AOW are not separate courses. They're just "qualification levels."

AOW is indeed a prerequisite for MD because you automatically are AOW after four courses and 25 dives.

[PvtStash]

aha... ok that makes sense... , the way its being packaged/sold at my LDS made it seem as if they were courses in and of themselves that were taken in sequence.

[heelsfaninpa]

One thing you should also know about the Stress/Rescue course...To get certified Stress/Rescue, you will also need a first aid and cpr class. That's one thing that my LDS failed to mention to me when I signed up for the class. Luckily, I am certified first aid and cpr through my job, so when I finished my Stress/Rescue course, I took in my first aid/cpr certification cards and a few weeks later I received my Master Diver card including the stress/rescue specialty included on the card.

If you haven't taken a first aid and cpr class, you will need to do that prior to getting your master diver certification.

[garyfotodiver]

Why worry so much about a(ny) C-card? As my friend Mikey the DM says, "Dive, dive, dive!"

[Saspotato]

Why worry so much about a(ny) C-card? As my friend Mikey the DM says, "Dive, dive, dive!"

Because some charters like to see them before you are allowed to dive at certain dive sites. So in order to "Dive, dive, dive" you need the card first! :) At least, in my experience.

[garyfotodiver]

Because some charters like to see them before you are allowed to dive at certain dive sites. So in order to "Dive, dive, dive" you need the card first! :) At least, in my experience.

In my experience, you need the experience first. I have seen too many new OW divers unable to complete dives for their "AOW" without the instructor nursemaiding them. This, in my opinion, is a less than useful method of creating competent recreational divers.

First get completely comfortable with the skills that were taught in the OW class. Accomplish this by diving within your comfort zone. Then, and only then, start broadening your perspective. There is no rational need to dive, for example, a wreck at 110fsw on your second post-certification dive.

I want to dive with you, and not after you. :D

[cave_diver]

Yes, except for some locations in the Caribbean and in South America, you will need a c-card to get on the boat. Unfortunately, in some locations in Europe you need the "right" c-card to get on the boat. I have had occasions were NSS-CDS, NACD, and IANTD cards were rejected since nobody knew the training agencies. An old PADI card I rarely show anybody (uhhh, the ugly picture on it really hurts) saved the day!

[Saspotato]

In my experience, you need the experience first. I have seen too many new OW divers unable to complete dives for their "AOW" without the instructor nursemaiding them. This, in my opinion, is a less than useful method of creating competent recreational divers.

First get completely comfortable with the skills that were taught in the OW class. Accomplish this by diving within your comfort zone. Then, and only then, start broadening your perspective. There is no rational need to dive, for example, a wreck at 110fsw on your second post-certification dive.

I want to dive with you, and not after you. :D

I am confused, I thought you were saying why would anybody get *any* cert card ever, and I was pointing out that many charters require them so that is a reason why people get them. All charters in my area require OW at least, so you do need at least one c-card to go and dive to build up your experience on boat dives at least. If you want to check out 30m sites, you need AOW card, 40m, you need Deep card, and then deeper than that you need technical certs.

I was not commenting on whether people *should* be getting them. :) That is a whole other issue!

[garyfotodiver]

I am confused, I thought you were saying why would anybody get *any* cert card ever, and I was pointing out that many charters require them so that is a reason why people get them. All charters in my area require OW at least, so you do need at least one c-card to go and dive to build up your experience on boat dives at least. If you want to check out 30m sites, you need AOW card, 40m, you need Deep card, and then deeper than that you need technical certs.

I was not commenting on whether people *should* be getting them. :) That is a whole other issue!

Of course you need a c-card to get on a boat. My point is whether you should "collect" cards. I see too many divers who are uncertain of their skills going on a card-collecting spree. In my opinion, these divers are not doing themselves any good.

Learn to dive first. A competent diver's skills are better than any card.

[Saspotato]

Of course you need a c-card to get on a boat. My point is whether you should "collect" cards. I see too many divers who are uncertain of their skills going on a card-collecting spree. In my opinion, these divers are not doing themselves any good.

Learn to dive first. A competent diver's skills are better than any card.

Agreed!

[captmike]

All this card play and PADI/FAA style ratings restriction is why I miss NASDS. When my wife and I certified back in 1980, NASDS didn't believe in all that patch and rating hooey. They believed in a very well trained diver that could operate within the total sport diving world surface to 132ft. They made sure you did beach dives, boat dives, down to wrecks,night dives and proper use of the dive tables, emergency assents etc. At the time I was also going to flight school and you could see PADI and the others creating the little "I'm better than you" enviroment of exclusivity. A patch for this and a patch for that. They were big on making sure you understood taking care of your equipment and VIPS for tanks and hydros for steels back then. It was thought then that the new Aluminum 80's could go without hydros, well that went by the wayside. Anyway, a well trained diver that could stay in shape, take care of his equipment could buy his gear and enjoy a long period of unrestricted diving. But the yuppy-artsie dive shops of the 80's and 90's started the restrictions, with the annual inspections of gear and soon the restrictions on dives,depths, access to dive boats for not having the flavor of the day card, no computer and not being current. One can pretty well tell a bonehead as he approaches a boat, preps his gear, and gets into the water, that is what a dive master is for and good ones can bring along a diver or convice him that the dive might be too much for him. I am not against getting further training or specialty training like ice diving or nitrox, etc, but using it as a pecking order or exclusive access card is not what it is for. In my book an agency certified diver is either an open water sport diver 0-132ft, a dive master, or scuba instructor. After that, go join the SEALS.

[Saspotato]

In my book an agency certified diver is either an open water sport diver 0-132ft, a dive master, or scuba instructor. After that, go join the SEALS.

What about divers that dive deeper than 132ft who are not dive masters or scuba instructors? :P

[captmike]

Past sport dive limits, definately is the territory of specialty training and gear. I see the Europeans doing it all the time, but not my interests and so I am not concerned with the restrictions that go with that kind of diving.

[supergibbs]

I took the AOW from my local dive shop but it was all inclusive. It's home study then a Q&A session/written tests and then the dives. My shop lets you borrow the books for free as long as you don't write in them and the AOW card was included. I didn't ask if I could get a discount if I waived the new card and waited for Divemaster but it was a pretty good deal. $279 which included a boat trip and rental tank/weights.

[Gr8LakesWreckDvr]

aha... ok that makes sense... , the way its being packaged/sold at my LDS made it seem as if they were courses in and of themselves that were taken in sequence.

I'm in Toledo too. Just out of curiosity, which LDS do you use?

[PerroneFord]

I need to get one of those AOW cards one day... Probably be fun.

[ErikH]

Past sport dive limits, definately is the territory of specialty training and gear. I see the Europeans doing it all the time, but not my interests and so I am not concerned with the restrictions that go with that kind of diving.

Just out of curiosity, what do you see 'those Europeans' do all the time and where? As far as I know, most technical diving is either cave diving in Florida and Mexico or deep diving in some deep blue waters you won't find in Europe. I got to admit there are plenty of technical divers here in Holland and across Europe, but I would expect a lot more of them in those regions where you can actually do those kind of dives.

[Web Monkey]

Just out of curiosity, what do you see 'those Europeans' do all the time and where?

They sneak in while I'm sleeping and drink all my beer and eat all my leftover pizza!

No, wait. I think I did that. Sorry. :D

Terry

[Paco II]

I see that this thread was started a bit ago, but thought it worth adding that in some countries, where diving is highly regulated, ops will only allow you to go down a certain depth depending on the card you carry. in my own experience, this has been 20m max with OW card, anything deeper requiring an AOW or better card. I agree with earlier posts that say experience is of greater importance, but once you have some degree of that, getting an AOW or better card will allow you to do any dive around the world with fewer possible limitations.

[mir]

In all honesty you should not have to pay for the cards since they are a symbol of your accomplishments in paying for their courses and logging all of your dives. they just gave me mine at 22 dives knowing good and well I was going to complete the remaining 2 qualifying dives needed for AOW and after your stress and rescue course and 26 more dives I'd be asking them to go ahead and give the Masters certification.

[ErikH]

In all honesty you should not have to pay for the cards since they are a symbol of your accomplishments in paying for their courses and logging all of your dives. [...] after your stress and rescue course and 26 more dives I'd be asking them to go ahead and give the Masters certification.

You can always ask ;) But seriously, those C-cards do cost your dive center money. You paid for your S&R course, so you'll get a C-card for that specialty. But you never paid for the Master Diver card. That card is just showing that you have 50 or more dives, AOW and S&R. You can prove all that with your divelog and the AOW and S&R C-cards. No need for an extra Master Diver card I would say.

If you do want to have that card, every SSI Facility can order it for you, as long as you are willing to pay for the costs ;)