Television show on Sharks

[fish_bowl]

Hi guys,

I was watching this television show on sharks and it was the neatest thing. They were showing different kinds and talking about if they were aggressive or dosile. The best part was the diver who was video taping the whale shark right in front of its face. I really want to see a whale shark now.

Did anyone else see the show on TV? I think it was on on Sunday night.

The part that made me sad though was the people catching the sharks for their fins. They had clips of huge hammer heads and other kinds of sharks (I'm not really sure what they were) but the people would cut all of their fins off and put them back in the water ALIVE.

it was kind of sad.

Then they went back into diving with sharks which looked cool.

Has anyone tried this?

just thought I would share what I saw.

Fish

[seahunter]

What would be preferable?
Should the fishermen ensure the shark is dead before the inedible parts are returned to the ocean?

[Butch103]

It is my understanding that much of the shark is edible.
If not where do the shark steaks come from?
Also what about the "miracle" sharke cartilage?, Do they just use the dorsal fin for this?

[Diversauras]

Most of the shark is edible and the practice of finning them decimates the population and wastes the majority of the animal, and there is only one real consumer of shark fins anyway. I think they are still picking on whales too.

Some places, finning is illegal and probably should be world wide. It's like harvesting chickens for their feet, imagine thousands and thousands of chickens stumbling around without feet ;) It would be really hard to herd them wouldn't it?

[Boogie711]

Shark fins command a considerable premium over the rest of the still-edible, yet not as revenue-generating portion of the shark. As a result, unscrupulous shark hunters gather live sharks, haul them on board, lop off their fins and toss the still-living carcass overboard. The only saving grace is that the 'still living' carcass usually lasts a few seconds before being eaten alive by his shark colleagues in a feeding frenzy below.

Seahunter - your comment is sad, because you'd be outraged if people were rounding up puppies and harvesting them for their ears and tails before throwing them back out unto the street.

PETA hasn't launched a campaign against shark-finning yet, but they have launched a campaign against the Korean community for eating dog-meat.

I'm convinced it's because there are no rich liberals living in Berkeley, California, with a pet shark named Fido, looking for something to do with their money, but I digress.

[fish_bowl]

Seahunter - your comment is sad, because you'd be outraged if people were rounding up puppies and harvesting them for their ears and tails before throwing them back out unto the street.

I agree with this statement. Killing an animal just for one part is not really ideal. I mean I believe in fishing and hunting to sustain life but this is not right. The one thing I got from the program was how long it takes for sharks to reach maturity. I can't remember an exact age but its not one or two years. I think they said 6 to 7 years. and they only have a few young (5 to 6). So killing a large number of sharks for fins alone really harms the population. I hope they do make it illegal to fin. I have also heard that the drugs made from sharks are really a placebo anyway.

[seahunter]

My comment was designed to get a response - worked good eh?

Any waste of any form of a natural resource is criminal. It is not only wasteful but simple theft from the rest of us and for the worst possible reason - personal profit.

With respect to sharks specifically, I don't know if they are in danger or not. Nor do I know what may be the cause of any decrease in the shark population. There are a dozen reasons why that may be happening.
Unfortunately the many groups that claim to be experts in this area use exaggerated and unvalidated figures to shock people into supporting their cause. PETA is a perfect example. It would not be so bad if their cause was justifiable but many groups including PETA collect millions of dollars but only a tiny percentage is used for the protection of the animals. The vast majority of the money collected is used to perpetuate PETA, that is, internally to support the thousands of PETA 'volunteers' and to keep their name in front of the public so the public thinks they are doing some good and continues to send money. Kinda' reminds you of politicians - gets elected based on good intentions and then spends millions to convince you they're doing a good job so you'll re-elect them. If all the money collected actually went for the stated cause, the problem would be solved!
PETA hasn't a hope of stopping the consumption of dog meat in Korea nor should they!! Eating dogs or horses or cattle or any resource is perfectly normal and acceptable. How do you suppose the East Indians feel about us eating their most sacred animal - the cow?
Waste of the resource is the problem whether it's shark meat, dog meat, bears or cattle.

[fish_bowl]

I agree,

I took an environmental issues class and I don't believe in a lot of the environmental activists and animal rights groups. And I think you are right about different groups making things look worse then what they are. Perhaps there are only a few boats that were caught killing sharks only for their fins and now everyone is making a stink about it. Its just like the cancelation of the spring bear hunt. won't get into that. Its a touchy subject for me.

Anyway I just wanted to add that I think that it is so interesting that there are so many different kinds of sharks out there. I didn't even realize there were so many. I think I know about 5 shark names (hammer heads, whale, great white, lemon) but after watching that show I got to see some new and really interesting ones.

Fish

[No Fish]

I agree with Seahunter. It always pays to look into the details of an issue, from all perspectives. Emotion is a powerful tool.

Sometimes I wonder if some folks are really trying to make a difference or are they trying to make themselves feel better. (look into where most of your recycling goes)

BTW, I have eaten (and enjoy) shark but won't try shark fin soup. I don't like the idea of "finning" either.

[seahunter]

The term 'finning' and the image it conjures up is distasteful. I wonder if anyone knows exactly what parts of the shark are useful. That is, while the fins are certainly 'meaty' and are used in soups or broths or steaks, can other parts of the shark be eaten too?
I suppose the rest of the shark could be ground up and made into dog food for the Korean market (being a bit silly here).

Seriously though, does anyone know for sure if there is a use for the rest of the shark. Thinking about it ( I have caught and eaten shark), I'm not sure if there is much more to a shark other than the fins.

[fish_bowl]

Well I'm not sure about the soup of sharks but it probably involves boiling the fins like chicken soup is made from the bones of chickens.

As for what other things they are used for, I know they make drugs out of the cartilage of the fin. kind of sad I know.

I know this is Ontario but I think hearing from freshwater divers gives things a little different perspective.Has anyone out there ever swam with sharks??

[bigz]

"Preparation H" used to contain shark liver oil! Haven't looked at the container lately (no need, thank goodness) so I can't swear by the current contents. I refuse to eat shark meat because of the depletion of fish stocks factor. Same goes for Chilean Sea Bass. Shark liver oil is used for medicinal purposes; the liver is the largest organ in a shark, and has been studied for quite some time for a number of medical reasons - cancer being a major interest.

I am very tired of hearing from PETA. Their latest rant relates to the use of dolphins and sea lions in Iraq. These animals are helping clear the harbours of sea mines - mines that are delaying the delivery of humanitarian aid. Why isn't PETA complaining about the effect of burnig oil wells on marine and other animal life?

[Boogie711]

A) Nothing was intended personally, (Seahunter) and

B) I may not be a redneck, gun toting hunter, but I did meet one at the Holiday Inn Express I stayed in last night... (obscure joke - forget it.)

If God wanted us to be vegetarian, he wouldn't have made cows from steak. Koreans have every right to eat whatever they want, and PETA has no business telling them otherwise.

I just didn't want anyone to think I actually didn't support killing smaller creatures. I'm just saying, if you kill them, kill them for a good reason. :D

Now, on the other hand, if people were out there torturing snakes, I'd be the first to send them money. :D

[seahunter]

No problem here with the killing of snakes ... provided you eat 'em!

Apparently they are quite good .. like chicken. Interesting how everything weird is compared to chicken. Squirrels, rabbits, rats, frog legs .. they all taste like chicken.
You've seen the cartoon of the guy and girl frog relaxing in bed after some fun and the guy frog is saying to the girl frog ..(ready?).. "They're right! We do taste like chicken!".

Snakes I suppose are similar to morays which are quite popular among the residents of many Caribbean islands. Sting rays too!

Swimming with the sharks is a popular pastime but now is also being attacked by detractors who feel such close interaction is bad for the sharks. At one level I can appreciate that close contact between sharks (or any other of God's creatures for that matter) and humans is bound to be a bumpy road to hell for the animal.
You can take the PADI Shark Diver Specialty class at our facility (no pool session!) and do the dives and get the cert in Bahamas.

So let's see.... sharks, soup, chicken, snakes, rednecks, 'Preparation H', Chile, and so on....

What was the topic of this thread??

[No Fish]

.Has anyone out there ever swam with sharks??

Yes, In Tahiti. It's neat but to be truthful, I actually enjoy seeing rays and other neat fish more. For sure, you are VERY AWAKE when the sharks are swimmimg around. They were black tip reef sharks.

BTW, I found it interesting that there is a good market for shark in England. It is sold for fish & chips. Typically what we called dog sharks (on the west coast). Man, there are millions of them. You have to prepare it right to remove the urea in the meat (sharks don't urinate, they get rid of it through their skin), but I guess folks like it

[fish_bowl]

I have always enjoyed the taste of urea and I can see why the English would like shark so much.

Alright I'm KIDDING. I have never tried shark but since I really don't like to eat fish or sea food (I think it tastes too fishy) I don't know if I would want to try shark.

NO FISH... I think its cool that you have swam with sharks and I believe you when you say you are very awake. I found when I did my pool sessions (I acutally haven't been out in the wild diving yet) that I was relaxed and could almost sleep. Ahhh relaxing warm pool. But I think if I were surrounded by sharks I would want to stay somewhat alert. Not too mention the adrelanine that would be pumping.

As for other animals and animal rights groups. Boooooo.. I hate it that as humans we think we have the right to everything (of course not all of us).. We think we are above all and that we are the protectors of the world. Animals are there for us to eat and if they were brave enough, and if we didn't have guns, they would hunt us too. Well not rabbits. Maybe Jack Rabbits. They are kind of big. :out:

I can't believe I stirred up so much mentioning a shark show.

Fish

[seahunter]

" ..fish taste too fishy.."
I know exactly what you mean. I have the same problem with hamburgers! They taste too cowy. And porkchops too! they are much too piggy tasting!!
Seriously, I personally am not a big fish fan (sounds like a junior scuba club!). I love shellfish (shrimp, lobsters, scallops, etc) but am very fussy about what fish I eat. It is entirely a taste preference though. I do not let my emotions control what my body consumes. I would eat chocolate coated earth worms if they were so fattening.
This is one of the disturbing things that has been quietly noticeable throughout this thread - that our emotions control our perspective about nature. Nature has no emotions. Whether a shark is being eaten (finned) or is eating you, he has no emotions. A shark doesn't say to himself "Damn, I'm hungry. I know I shouldn't because they probably have a wife and kids but I'd love a diver right now." or "I'm sorry but I just have to have a bite of you to see what it tastes like." Remember that sharks stomachs have been found to contain everything imaginable - licence plates, boat bumpers, golf balls as well as the usual assorted body parts from sea creatures and humans. You are as important to him as a licence plate.
My point is that the animal rights terrorists would have us believe that animals get sad, happy, loving, angry or hurt when, in fact, they act entirely by natural instinct. A cat purrs and rubs your leg because you are it's source of food and water or because that action helps rid it of itchy skin or keeps it warm. This doesn't imply that animals don't have brains. The cat recognizes what you are good for just as a crow recognizes that a man in a field is harmless unless he has a long stick (gun) and they each take appropriate, instinctive action for their self-preservation.
Those who believe that animals have the same emotions as humans have simply ascribed human charactaristics to those animals. Nothing is a greater insult to the magnificent craetures in nature nor as dangerous to their future since that attitude is proven to provoke actions on our part that will doom the animals. Give deer a birth control pill so they don't overpopulate an area - that's natural! NOT!!
Don't fall into the Disney World trap!! Mickey Mouse is a cartoon - not a documentary!
I recall the first time I saw Bambi. Loved it, and I jumped up in the theatre and shouted "Great shot!!" when the hunter got the running deer!
Didn't seem to affect Bambi's ability to procreate. In fact, with the old girl gone, Bambis and his fawns had a greater chance of surviving. Now that's nature!!

[No Fish]

I have been sitting here for a while figuring out how to respond to the last two posts. OK, I give up.

How do you combine a paranoia about:rolleyes: gun toting jackrabbits with the disturbing fact that Mickey Mouse is not real?

I think the points that Fish_bowl and Instigator...Ooops I mean Seahunter:) made are right on for the most part (the comment about Disney for sure, you beat me to it) .

However, getting back to the original post, IMHO we are all discussing ethics. Yes, ethics. I think that is what really bothers us when we see either wastefulness in the fishing industry or when we see emotions used as a tool to manipulate the public to promote the agenda of some uninformed fringe group chanting pseudo-science. Actions of unethical people.

I am always pleased that ever since I have been active in the "world of scuba" that I observe a collection of folks that actually are quite ethical. I like that. I know there are always a few exceptions, but they are few.

Phew ....Now I have to go look into this Mickey Mouse thing....maybe my dog has a few thoughts on this. I'll go ask her now..........

[cyklon_300]

inexhaustible and will never be overharvested. Just ask the Japanese and Norwegians...they know.

I see no problem encouraging the use of factory ships, 40-mile long purse seines unlimited bycatch, shark finners, dynamite/cyanide fishing, etc.

I've dived with hundreds of sharks, the ones that have had their fins hacked off have a hard time keeping up, tho...

[seahunter]

It's difficult to convey a tone of voice via email.
Of course I realize that you are being facitious cyklon but the insertion of a small clue to that effect so that casual readers who have not followed this entire thread don't go ballistic might be wise.

There was a time when those opinions were valid but the last 50 years has seen an incredible increase in the world's population PLUS a tremendous improvement (?) in the efficiency of factory fishing vessels. International conservation practices must be applied and enforced where in place already or tuna sandwiches will be more expensive than abalone stew or caviar pate.

It is very difficult to persuade whole nations to change their culinary preferences. Imagine the impact on the USA if hotdogs were endangered! Likewise large industries with a major investment in ships, plants and workers will fight attempts to limit their operations. Often the governments of those countries will fight too since the loss of that industry will result in an immense cost to the government.

It's only recently that the big picture has become clear. It will take a lot of education and money to change the status quo. It's not that long ago that divers from the Calypso dynamited passages through coral reefs in the South Pacific so they could get the ship through and make U/W movies.


'Seahunter' ... 'Instigator' ?? I donno! Certainly instigator is not inaccurate but seahunter has such an innocent ring to it.

[cyklon_300]

a smiley/winky face in it to denote that it contained sarcasm...my bad...you're kidding, right?

Losing hotdogs from the menu? Oh, the horrors...

By all means, governments and industries should proceed with extreme caution in imposing any limits that could prevent overfishing. There's plenty of time to drag collective feet and make money from the remaining, but dwindling, marine resources.

BTW, the above comments contain sarcasm, too...

[fish_bowl]

I'm not an instigator. He he. I again will mention this. I have no quams about killing animals for food. In fact, I am strongly against ethical decisions in the world of animals because it usaully ends up causing more harm then doing good. For instance, the Spring Bear Hunt was canceled because a billboard was put up in Downtown toronto showing a 12 year old boy hunting for bear and from some activists putting up a website showing the horrible Northerners (I'm a northerner so I can use this term) Killing poor defenssless bear cubs. So as a result there was a large amount of pressure to cancel the spring bear hunt. And what was the result, more bears in northern Ontario, coming into towns and cities looking for food because there are too many of them.. or they have been chased out of territories by other males who either don't want a female with cubs in her area or they do not want young males bothering them... There are more cub deaths now that males are killing children that are not theirs then there was before (I think the statistic was accidental cub shootings were like 2 a year) really low.. I can't remember exactly.

So anyway just to let you know that I understand how things in the animal and fish management world work and I like the idea of hunting for food. Just a little disturbed by taking one part of the shark (fins). couldn't they use the whole shark? I feel like it is a bit of a waste

Oh yes.. As for CATS. seahunter.. have you ever had a cat.. (this is in a fun joking tone so no offence). My cat has thoughts of her own. For instance.. "If I pretend my foot hurts, the humans will pick me up and I won' thave to walk on the cold floor".. Or "If I drop the girls glasses on the floor she gets upset and wakes up and feeds me."

Just to let you know that I think they think more then we do.. and have emmotions. My cat does not like when I'm sad.. she gets sad too..

Also.. Leave MICKEY alone. he never hurt anyone. Pick on Donald

Fish

[wetvet]

Hello, Ontario.

Thought Id chime in on the whole animals and feelings thing....animals DO have feelings.....my wifes dog is the most smug bastard Ive ever met. We do tend to antropomorphise a lot though. In vet school, we were shown slides of dogs in different situations, and tell what emotion he was exhibiting.....was only a couple dogs, with the same expression....class gave him up to 25 different emotions. I have ethical issues with the dismemberment of live animals.....Club 100 baby seals to death, but dont rip the fins off a shark (or worse the penis off a seal) and release it live. I find suffering more distasteful than death. If your economics force you to take only fins off sharks, at least have the decency to kill them. Under no circumstances, economic or otherwise, should a penis be removed from any body:wacko: IMHO.


Cheers

Wetvet