Equipment Buying Question

[Kosh]

I’m doing research on equipment, and have found a lot of good information on this site. Thanks everyone! Now I’m narrowing things down, so I thought I’d use you guys as a sounding board. The diving I plan to do is typically 1-3 trips a year, Caribbean and/or FL (i.e. somewhere warm). I may do a few dives in local quarries (mid-Atlantic area). I am getting wreck certified in early June in the keys. Don’t know how into wreck diving I’ll be until after the class.

Here’s what I’m down to:

BC

SQ Balance (with the new quick release). Cost at the local dive store ~$490. Pretty much a lock on this one. I want a back inflate, and I like the looks of this BC. Read good things about it on Scubaboard and elsewhere. (No, I do not want to get into a BP/wings setup at this time.)

Reg

AL Titan LX (with a LX octo) Had one shop owner tell me how he sells a lot of these. They are durable, small, and not a big bank buster.

The local shop I want buy from carries AL stuff, but not this reg (I’m sure they can get if for me). The LDS tells me to get an Apeks. I originally thought about Apeks regs, but thought the ATX 200 was too expensive, and I know the ATX 50 is more than the AL. So now I ask. Do I really need a reg with an adjustment knob (like the one on the ATX 50)? Could I get the AT20 or 40 (without the knob) and still be getting a good reg? Should I stick with my plan to get the AL Titan LX and see if this shop can order one?

Computer

Suunto Mosquito or Vyper. Nearly the same price with the same functions (am I correct on this one?). Big difference is the size. Any pros/cons of one versus the other?

I didn’t get the prices for the regs or the computers from the LDS, so I can’t ask you all any questions about whether or not the prices are crazy. I know the LP prices for the gear, so I can judge by that, but obviously LP prices will be cheaper than the LDS.

Of course I still need a SPG and compass. I think I can figure them out once I get the other items finalized.

Sorry for the long post, and hopefully the post makes sense. TIA for any comments you can provide.

Daryl
:)

[chris_b]

Kosh once bubbled...
Do I really need a reg with an adjustment knob (like the one on the ATX 50)? Could I get the AT20 or 40 (without the knob) and still be getting a good reg?

You don't need the extra adjustment knob. I have an ATX50 and a TX40, and, once set, I haven't touched the ATX50's adjustor. If you ever envision yourself doing any colder water diving (you mention quarries) you should consider the ATX40 over the AT20, the cost difference probably isn't huge. For tropical diving only, the AT20 should be fine.

Happy shopping!

[RICHinNC]

go wrist computer mount..you will be happier in the long run...
and,,,,if the one you noted is a wrist mount...disregard!!

[NetDoc]

I love my Cobra... the air pressure integration is great.

[awap]

Kosh once bubbled...
I know the LP prices for the gear, so I can judge by that, but obviously LP prices will be cheaper than the LDS.

Daryl
:)

My LDS does his best to compete with LP prices. And when he can't, he tells me to get it from LP and he will be happy to service it.

By the way, Apeks is made in the UK and Aqualung is a French company - if that matters.

[Kosh]

Keep 'em coming. Awap, I had thought about the "french connection" so to speak, but aren't SQ, Apeks, and AL all owned by the same people?

[awap]

Kosh once bubbled...
Keep 'em coming. Awap, I had thought about the "french connection" so to speak, but aren't SQ, Apeks, and AL all owned by the same people?

I'm pretty sure Apeks is British. US distributer was Zeagle and is now Seaquest. I have not heard of any French connection with Seaquest. Much Scuba stuff is so worldwide that it is often hard to tell.

[SeaJay]

Kosh once bubbled...

SQ Balance (with the new quick release). Cost at the local dive store ~$490. Pretty much a lock on this one. I want a back inflate, and I like the looks of this BC. Read good things about it on Scubaboard and elsewhere. (No, I do not want to get into a BP/wings setup at this time.)


Fair enough. Frankly, with only a few dives planned per year, I think this particular situation might be one where I personally wouldn't have recommended a bp/wing anyway. Since it often takes three or four dives to get everything adjusted "just right," it would take you more than a year at that rate... :D

The Balance is a very nice BC... I'm a fan of the "minimalist" ideology behind it, and it seems to be a quality piece. I am particularly fond of the blue/black combination, too. The size of the wing is ideal for tropical diving as well, which apparently is what you are planning.

The Balance is missing some features, which you may find is actually a PLUS rather than a negative. For example, it's missing usable pockets. Sure, it's got one stuffed in there, but for the most part, it's hardly useful. The negative aspect of this is that you're very limited as to what you can carry. If you plan on carrying a disposable underwater camera, for example, you're going to have to clip it off (and they are annoyingly buoyant) rather than be able to put it away in a pocket of some sort. The advantage, obviously, is that there is no pocket to cause extra drag on the BC, and it makes for a rig that's cleaner and simpler and more streamlined than others.

An option to the Balance is a Dive Rite Transpac II, which is something that I would recommend checking out before buying the Balance. The Dive Rite to me doesn't appear to be as "finished" as the awesome-looking Balance, but the Dive Rite "TPII" is a modular unit, meaning that you can easily change the size of the wings to get the lift you want (without forcing yourself into diving with more lift than you need). The TPII also allows you to purchase separate pockets and such so that you can add and remove any feature you want. This in itself is an advantage, but may be more than is necessary or even desired for someone who's diving just a couple of times per year.

By the way, one disadvantage to the TPII is the fact that the pull dumps are pretty worthless. While the pull dumps on the Balance work nicely because of their smooth action and stable mounting point, the TPII's pull dumps are simultaneously stiff and mounted on the changable wing... A point which is not stable enough to effectively work right.

That said, as a believer in the tenants of DIR, I personally feel that pull dumps aren't worth the hassle. But I can understand how someone who dives just a few times a year might consider these points pretty seriously. Only recently did I come to the conclusion that I wasn't a fan of pull dumps... Prior to this, I very much liked them, and you might feel the same, depending on your experiences with them.

One more thing about both of these BC's... While the Balance is moreso than the TPII, neither of these BC's are advertised as "hard pack" BC's, meaning that the tank effectively is attached directly to the material of the BC... Not to a hard backplate, which helps add stability and structure to the system. I personally am not a fan of "soft pack" BC's, as I find that they simultaneously hold my tank too low out of the water and too high in the water. This, for me, results in the tank hitting the backs of my legs when I'm walking to the dive site while also hitting me in the back of the head if I try to swim horizontally. The system, for me, is improved if I really cinch down on the shoulder straps, but then the system is entirely too tight around my shoulders, and the net result is that the entire BC is held too high up on my body when I'm in the water.

Thus, I personally prefer something with some internal stucture in it... And if you were to take a Balance and add a hard backing, you'd have the Balance's big brother (Black Diamond) or the Scubapro Knighthawk.

With the Black Diamond, though (which has a very good internal structure that is extremely comfortable and much more stable, keeping the tank pretty much where it's supposed to be all the time) you get a lot more "extras" which might not be of interest to you. For example, there is the addition of two more pockets (adding usability but also adding drag), pointless additional D-rings (probably just to look better on the shelf) and a lot more lift in the bladder (not only creating more drag, but turning an otherwise stable BC into a real face-planter if all of it is used). There is also the addition of a cummerbund, which to this day I can't understand the point of, especially because they are made of elastic and do not help with stability at all.

The Knighthawk is a very nice BC as well, keeping a little more in tune with the Balance's ideology of simplicity, yet adding a hard backplate in the midst of the BC. I'm also a fan of the Scubapro tank band, a stainless steel unit that many of us use on our "tech" backplates. I like the Knighthawk also because the bladder of this BC is a full circle, meaning that air can easily travel from one side to the other, reducing the problem of air trapping when inverted or horizontal (annoying as hell when you're swimming down and trying to dump). As with most BC's, however, there is a lot of extra "stuff" on it which seems pointless and does nothing but create drag. One such example is the "epaulet" that is on each shoulder, especially the right one. At least you can justify the left one by feeding your inflator hose though it. Another example is the second, right shoulder pull dump, which I thought a great idea until I realized that it meant that there were now FOUR dumps on this BC... A bit excessive and failure-prone, IMHO, when a single good one would probably do the job just as well, with 1/4th the liklihood of failure. There also seems to be a lot of adjustment straps and such left over as "danglies" when you've got it adjusted, but that can be fixed with a set of scissors and a match. Lastly, as with the Balance, the concepts of "pockets" are pretty worthless... When you dive with this rig (as with the Balance), you're going to end up having to clip everything off, adding to the "Christmas tree" syndrome.



AL Titan LX (with a LX octo) Had one shop owner tell me how he sells a lot of these. They are durable, small, and not a big bank buster.

The local shop I want buy from carries AL stuff, but not this reg (I’m sure they can get if for me). The LDS tells me to get an Apeks. I originally thought about Apeks regs, but thought the ATX 200 was too expensive, and I know the ATX 50 is more than the AL. So now I ask. Do I really need a reg with an adjustment knob (like the one on the ATX 50)? Could I get the AT20 or 40 (without the knob) and still be getting a good reg? Should I stick with my plan to get the AL Titan LX and see if this shop can order one?


Aqualung regs have gotten great reviews at Rodales, and I know some people who swear by them. I don't think you can go wrong with most of their stuff, but I think you hit the nail on the head with the comment about the LDS... Since regs need to be serviced annually (and you're only going to put 3-4 dives per year on them in-between), it seems to me that the important thing is to purchase a reg that your favorite LDS can service easily and inexpensively. ...So it seems that you've made good initial choices by narrowing it down to AL and Apeks.

Personally, I find the "extra knob" on the regs annoying... I've sometimes dived an entire series of dives before realizing that somehow, that "extra knob" got turned (which is nothing but a "detuner" for reducing breathing efficiency. My question is, "Why would you ever want to DETUNE a reg?") So personally, I prefer the simplicity of the regs without the extra knob. They all have adjustments to prevent freeflow anyway.

...So I would look at a reg that is commonly sold at your favorite local dive shop... One without the adjustment. You will probably find that in a simple AL reg. The Apeks AT40 would be an excellent choice, too, but might not be as commonly seen by those who are going to service your regs. I personally would avoid the AT20, since the unit's lack of heat exchanger means that the reg would not work well under 60 degrees or so... Not that you ever plan on diving anything less than that... It's just that resale of the unit would be significantly reduced, and there's only like a $25 difference between the two regs.



Computer

Suunto Mosquito or Vyper. Nearly the same price with the same functions (am I correct on this one?). Big difference is the size. Any pros/cons of one versus the other?


Yes... Many.

The big question is, do you plan on wearing the computer out of the water? The Vyper (my personal choice) is too big to wear as a watch. The Mosquito can be worn as a watch, but I personally don't see that as an advantage... I don't want to "beat up" a couple-hundred-dollar piece of dive gear by wearing it on a daily basis. I'll save that for my $20 Armitron.

If you don't plan on wearing the watch on land, then I suggest the Vyper... You'll appreciate the ease of use underwater, and the larger display.



I didn’t get the prices for the regs or the computers from the LDS, so I can’t ask you all any questions about whether or not the prices are crazy. I know the LP prices for the gear, so I can judge by that, but obviously LP prices will be cheaper than the LDS.


Yes, by far. I, too, have had good experiences with Leisurepro, and recommend them for your gear. If you are buying any Suunto product, though, I recommend purchasing from Eric at http://www.ass.com.sg (no, that's not a typo). His prices are even better, his shipping is much less, and his customer service is the best I've seen.

Good luck with your purchases.

[Ziggys_Friend]

Kosh once bubbled...
I’m doing research on equipment, and have found a lot of good information on this site. Thanks everyone! Now I’m narrowing things down, so I thought I’d use you guys as a sounding board. The diving I plan to do is typically 1-3 trips a year, Caribbean and/or FL (i.e. somewhere warm). I may do a few dives in local quarries (mid-Atlantic area). I am getting wreck certified in early June in the keys. Don’t know how into wreck diving I’ll be until after the class.
:)

Why not? I just bought my first set of gear and got a Halcyon SS BP/Wings and just love it (also just finished a DIR/F course so I'd have a clue). If you're going wreck diving, why aren't you considering BP/Wings since it has lots of advantages.

Re gauges, I have a Vytec and love it ... Buying online you can get them for under $750 and you can save an additional $2-250 by not getting the transmitter and just going with an SPG (which you should have anyway). No matter what you get, go wrist mounted - it makes all the difference in the world and in a wreck you do not want anything dangling.

~<//><

[cstreu1026]

The Balance does get great review, especially by those on here that use it. I was considering getting one mywelf for travel until I picked up a Deep Outdoors Matrix and sold my Sea Quest Raider. The Matrix is similar to the Dive Right TPII. However it has a removable stainless steel backplate that can be used if you feel it necessary. I will be using it locally but when i travel I more than likely remove the back plate and STA.

As far as the AL Titan it is a nice reg and I thought about it for myself just a couple of months ago. I got a chance to try it along with an Atomic Z1 and Apeks ATX100. The Atomic was hands down the best and was only a few dollars more than the Titan. I actually ended up buying a Scuba Pro Mk25/S600 for about $100 more than the Titan. So far it seems to breath as well as the Atomic, though I wish i had saved the money and bought a Z1. You should also consider the Mk25/G250 as it falls in between in the pricing and is suppose to be a super reg, just a little larger than the S600 first stage.

[jplacson]

My local Halcyon dealer is recommending the Apeks ATX100. It's the current world record holder so at least I know the thing will work at any depth! :lol:

Seriously, it seems a bit pricey over here at US$500 with the AT20 Octo (I think it's a regular AT20 with just a yellow cover) But I figured that since I'm now starting to dive regularly (at LEAST 2x a month, or once a week) I decided to invest in decent, if not great gear so I won't have to 'upgrade' anytime soon.

The Apeks (from my own personal research) is great since the 1st stage is environmentally sealed... this means that it's generally more resistant to dirt, grime, and other in-water contaminants that get in regular 1st stages. According to my LDS, this also reduces the frequency of servicing... he said that even if it's recommended to service the reg every year... the Apeks can go for about 2 years with no problems. Just be VERY careful about not getting it flooded.

I was also told that the Vyper was one of the best recreational dive computers available... so I went to my local Suunto dealer... and what a surprise! They were selling the Vytec for only US$60 more (no transmitter) ... so I got the Vytec instead (US$380)

If you're going to be diving so infrequently... you might want to ask around for people selling their old gear. There are a LOT of people who upgrade quite often and sell slightly used gear for a great price! A friend of mine is selling his slightly used OMS BC rig for only US$280 with less than 20 dives on it.

I was actually tempted to get it, but it's red...and doesn't go with my outfit!!!! :lol: seriously... I'm too set on Halcyon already... but at $280, that's a great deal.

If you have a lot of diver friends... I'm sure they have slightly used gear that they wouldn't mind selling cheap. :)

[erichK]

You should also consider the Mk25/G250 as it falls in between in the pricing and is suppose to be a super reg, just a little larger than the S600 first stage.

I've got a G250 and my wife and daughter both have Apeks ATX 200's. I've had a lot more trouble with the G250 than they've ever had with their 200's, though it may be a case of comparing aplles and oranges. The G250 was quite used, and is mated with a MK 10, while the 200's were almost new.

Nevertheless, I think that APEKS is probably the better choice, between the sealed 1st stage and the solid feel and excellent reputation of their equipment (they seem to have pretty well won the drysuit valve business).

Can you tell me more about the BC you bought? I'm trying to upgrade to a slimmer setup (from a Mares Synchrotech pro), but doubt that I really want to go for a full BP/wings because half of our diving is tropical-vacation, with little protective wear and the rest is often involves shore dives for which I'd rather not be struggling with a complicated-looking harness.
Also, although I like big steel tanks, I doubt that I'll need doubles, and certainly not big ones.

[aquaoren]

My local Halcyon dealer is recommending the Apeks ATX100. It's the current world record holder so at least I know the thing will work at any depth! :lol:

Seriously, it seems a bit pricey over here at US$500 with the AT20 Octo (I think it's a regular AT20 with just a yellow cover) But I figured that since I'm now starting to dive regularly (at LEAST 2x a month, or once a week) I decided to invest in decent, if not great gear so I won't have to 'upgrade' anytime soon.

The Apeks (from my own personal research) is great since the 1st stage is environmentally sealed... this means that it's generally more resistant to dirt, grime, and other in-water contaminants that get in regular 1st stages. According to my LDS, this also reduces the frequency of servicing... he said that even if it's recommended to service the reg every year... the Apeks can go for about 2 years with no problems. Just be VERY careful about not getting it flooded.

I was also told that the Vyper was one of the best recreational dive computers available... so I went to my local Suunto dealer... and what a surprise! They were selling the Vytec for only US$60 more (no transmitter) ... so I got the Vytec instead (US$380)

If you're going to be diving so infrequently... you might want to ask around for people selling their old gear. There are a LOT of people who upgrade quite often and sell slightly used gear for a great price! A friend of mine is selling his slightly used OMS BC rig for only US$280 with less than 20 dives on it.

I was actually tempted to get it, but it's red...and doesn't go with my outfit!!!! :lol: seriously... I'm too set on Halcyon already... but at $280, that's a great deal.

If you have a lot of diver friends... I'm sure they have slightly used gear that they wouldn't mind selling cheap. :)
Just for information, the current deep dive record as far as I know is @313meters and is held by the Mares Abyss.
http://www.mares.com/NS_NewsView.asp?news=55
@Kosh:The Apeks is a great breathing reg but I'd suggest choosing a model that will fit your diving.
That said, for diving 1-3 times a year in warm water, the TX20 would be just fine but than you start telling that you are considering to do some quarry diving and maybe even wreck diving. In this case, you shouldn't be considering the TX20 because it is suitable for diving in warm water only! Don't you think that it would be cheaper to buy a better reg from the beginning that will grow with you instead of having to upgrade if you'll decide diving more in colder water or going deeper, where it is almost always colder. BTW, I don't think the AL Titan LX is suitable for cold water either(Not sure though, I know to little about Aqualung)

[jbichsel]

aquaoren wrote - "BTW, I don't think the AL Titan LX is suitable for cold water either(Not sure though, I know to little about Aqualung)".

It depends on what you mean by 'cold'. I use my Legend LX into the low 40's with no problem at all. Aqualung's Supreme designation is what sets up the second stage for 'cold' water, you know, where you get the chainsaw out to cut a hole?

As to the adjustment knob and 'detuning', I see it and use it as just the opposite. I rarely touch it, but sometimes when I ...er...uh...ummm......have ACCIDENTLY exceeded recreational depths, it is nice to have that extra boost. Of course my reg is adjusted to where if a gnat flies within 10 feet on land, air will flow.

As to ease of maintenance, I think you can't beat the Legend. THe Titan requires a bit more work and a bench where the Legend just needs a tank valve and allen wrench.

As to BC's and 'cheap', don't go there. Inexpensive is OK, cheap is not. Of course budget is always a concern, but don't shortchange yourself. Try the styles and brand you're interested in and pick what fits and suits you best. Remeber, your reg and BC could be part of your family for 10 years or more and you don't want to be disappointed in 5 years. Spending some extra $$ now can save a lot more $$$ later.