PADI Trimix

[voidware]

I have it on very good authority (PADI Examiner and one of the leading course directors) that PADI is going to release a trimix course this fall or thereabouts. I wanted to know if anyone knows anything about it or has any opinions (I know you do...). Also rumor has it that the DSAT TecDeep diver is a better course than IANTD and TDI's equivalent (but i am going to get flamed for that), do you think that this course will fall into that category?

Brandon
PS: sorry for the abscense my course-load has killed me and i was working on my instructor

[Doppler]

I am unfamiliar with the course itself and so cannot comment; however, as is often mentioned, it's not the course, it's the instructor.

One thought that does creep in though is that a few years ago, a PADI course director told me that I was "stupid to believe that ordinary divers had the skills to handle any gas but air!" He basically went on to tell me I was going to kill someone if I continued in my "unprofessional" ways. He explained that PADI had all the answers and that conducting staged decompression dives would result in immediate death and dismemberment (well, something like that).

How times change.

DD

[MikeFerrara]

I was told by an educational consultant at PADI that they planned to introduce a trimix course this year.

[Big Bubbles]

I am taking the Dsat course right now and I think the course is done very well allthough it does depend on the instructor. This course must be very close to TDI's course because we are going to write the TDI exam as well and get a C card from them also. This course gives you intro to Trimix.

[WreckWriter]

Naui has, so Padi must also or lose market share. My guess is that it will be severely limited and will probably utilize weird mixes (like 80% for deco).

WW

[faye]

The dsat course seems to have the course totally laid out from begining to end. It's like an open water course except with more advanced skills. while the iantd and tdi seem to allow the instructor some more latitude as to the make up of the course and how he wants to teach it.

The padi course uses 100 for deco

[WreckWriter]

faye once bubbled...
The padi course uses 100 for deco

Only 100% or other mixes too?

WW

[Drew Sailbum]

Our regional PADI dude said that the Trimix course is set to roll out in summer. He then went on to clarify that "summer" equates to September in PADI-time.

Haven't seen it yet, but it will be interesting to compare it to other materials I've got from other agencies.

[MikeFerrara]

WreckWriter once bubbled...
Naui has, so Padi must also or lose market share. My guess is that it will be severely limited and will probably utilize weird mixes (like 80% for deco).

WW

Hasn't NAUI been in the tech stuff for a while? No doubt PADI has seen that "tech" has become more popular and they're interested in their share of the market.

From what I've seen of IANTD and TDI instructors PADI may have something to offer if they would only enforce their standards. Maybe the other agencies allow instructors to add things but it seems far more common for them to leave things out than add them. I theory a PADI course doesn't allow ommissions. IMO, tech training is no place to be leaving things out.

My argument with PADI (literally) is where do they expect to get tech students from? Certainly not from their Advanced classes? I am also an IANTD instructor and don't sell many Advanced Nitrox classes. The reason I don't sell them is the cost and the amount of time I quote to students. The fact is though that it is rare that I get a student who is ready to begin tech training. It seems like I have to teach most to dive before i can start anything tech.

IMO, No agency that fails to mention basics like trim and finning techniques in recreational training has any business teaching technical classes. Unfortunately I think that describes most agencies.

[ericfine50]

I am interested in seeing where they get the instructors from. For a long time it seems PADI has put out the message that only air, above 130 fsw is the only type of diving to do.

Eric

[metridium]

PADI Trimix???

:confused:

Oops, thought I'd wandered into the Scuba Humor forum for a minute.

Hmmm....

Fin pivots at 180', anyone?

Or how about wearing steel doubles, a couple of stages, and using your drysuit for buoyancy?

[MikeFerrara]

metridium once bubbled...
PADI Trimix???

:confused:

Oops, thought I'd wandered into the Scuba Humor forum for a minute.

Hmmm....

Fin pivots at 180', anyone?

Or how about wearing steel doubles, a couple of stages, and using your drysuit for buoyancy?

I'm not sure what your experience with tech classes is but I have seen lots of tech instructors doing skills like valve shut downs and lift bad deployment sitting on a platform or the bottom. The DSAT class, in fact requires these skills to be performed midwater. The performance requirements are very clear and I'm sure they will do at least as good of a job of inforcing the standards as the older tech agencies.

I have the DSAT tech rec standards and there are no fin pivots required. I also don't recall any text in the standards that suggest you use your suit for buoyancy control when wearing double 104's.

IMO, there are things that the DSAT tech courses could be slamed for but you missed all of them.

[MechDiver]

WreckWriter once bubbled...
utilize weird mixes (like 80% for deco).

WW

Why would 80% be *weird*?

MD

[WreckWriter]

MechDiver once bubbled...


Why would 80% be *weird*?

MD

There's no point in using it. 100% is much better in my opinion.

WW

ps- Read this article http://www.divetekadventures.com/Technical_backersDozen.htm for the science behind it.

[MikeFerrara]

ericfine50 once bubbled...
I am interested in seeing where they get the instructors from. For a long time it seems PADI has put out the message that only air, above 130 fsw is the only type of diving to do.

Eric

Well, maybe at one time but they have had a nitrox class for a long time. At present most of the DSAT instructors are also tech instructors for other agencies. So...you may get the same instructor whether you buy a DSAT or a TDI course. I would expect that to change in the future.

Technical diving has come a long way in just the last few years. It doesn't suprise me that some agencies, instructors and divers who were not interested a couple of years ago are interested now.

There are also business issues. PADI/DSAT spent some money to develop the program and the materials. It doesn't make sense to do that until you think the market is such that you will get a return on your investment.

[ericfine50]

Mike,

That is true. When I worked on a boat, the PADI instructors I saw were not the best, I am not saying that it is that way for all of them. but the talk abuot nitrox (padi was teaching it) was that is was bad and a 7 foot hose would strangle someone. I just want to see people teach the class that can teach a class at this level. Lets wait and see what happens.
Eric

[metridium]

MikeFerrara wrote...


I'm not sure what your experience with tech classes is Prospective tech student who remembers PADI teaching both things I mentioned. Have you heard of any plans to stop teaching drysuit buoyancy?

Could you clarify PADI's relationship with DSAT?

[MechDiver]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


There's no point in using it. 100% is much better in my opinion.

WW

ps- Read this article http://www.divetekadventures.com/Technical_backersDozen.htm for the science behind it.

Thanks for the link WW, but I saw very little *science* there. It is mostly a totally worthless rant.
Granted, 100% is better, but 80% is also useful. Each to their own:)

MD

[WreckWriter]

MechDiver once bubbled...
It is mostly a totally worthless rant.

I don't agree with this but you're right, to each his own.

WW

[MikeFerrara]

metridium once bubbled...
Prospective tech student who remembers PADI teaching both things I mentioned. Have you heard of any plans to stop teaching drysuit buoyancy?

Could you clarify PADI's relationship with DSAT?

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to sway you toward taking the DSAT class. IMO, about the time you start taking divers below 130 (or there about) you should be teaching trimix. Anyone smart enough or good enough to do deep dives that require multiple gasses and staged decompression can handle a couple of additional calculations.

I also think some phisiology is appropriate to learn at this level (or sooner) and there is little to none in the current DSAT courses.

PADI as well as other agencies do use fin pivots when introducing a new diver to buoyancy control. whether or not you think this is useful it has nothing to do with technical training.

PADI, as well as most other agencies do teach using the dry suit for buoyancy control in single tank recreational diving. The reasoning is that when using a single tank and properly weighted about the time you add enough gas to control the squeeze your neutral. Another point worthy of not is that some (most?) dry suit manufacturers recommend that methode in their literature. Most agencies will be very slow to tell you to ignore the manufacturer recommendation on how to use a piece of equipment. I disagree with the practice but when wearing double 104's it will be very difficult to use the suit for buoyancy control so again as far as the DSAT tech class goes I don't think it's relevant. I have never seen the standards for the IANTD or TDI drysuit classes so I don't know what they teach. The only agency that I know of for a fact that teaches not to use the suit is GUE and they don't have a drysuit class. Except for the new triox class and DIRF they don't have any recreational diving classes at all. I wouldn't recommend any tech training if you haven't made freinds (one way or the other) with your dry suit. Applying some common sense if you train with an instructor who does 95% of his dives in double 104's, what do you think they will tell you.

DSAT is a Corp affiliate of PADI. I don't know how the leagal papers are worded but essentially DSAT does things like video production, tables and in general all the technical stuff.

[O-ring]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


I'm not sure what your experience with tech classes is but I have seen lots of tech instructors doing skills like valve shut downs and lift bad deployment sitting on a platform or the bottom. The DSAT class, in fact requires these skills to be performed midwater. The performance requirements are very clear and I'm sure they will do at least as good of a job of inforcing the standards as the older tech agencies.

I have the DSAT tech rec standards and there are no fin pivots required. I also don't recall any text in the standards that suggest you use your suit for buoyancy control when wearing double 104's.

IMO, there are things that the DSAT tech courses could be slamed for but you missed all of them.
Maybe I am the only one, but I am impressed that the skills are specified in the standards as being performed in midwater. I am very happy with my instructor (TDI), but knowing what I know about how the class could have been run, I know that the reason I am happy with my class is entirely due to the instructor. By codifying this type of stuff into the standards, PADI/DSAT may very well make the class a better overall class that will rely less on the merits of the individual instructor to make it great.

I will reserve judgment until I see the thing, but have no doubts PADI has the capability to put out a quality course and quality materials if the organization just applies itself.

[faye]

Only a card-carrying stroke would do somethng like this, and
showing up with 80/20 is no different than wearing a sign on your back
saying "I am a stroke, and have the papers to prove it". It announces to
all the world that you have no clue, kind of like wearing clip-on
suspenders or having dog dirt on your shoes.

sounds like an open minded individual!?!

[WreckWriter]

faye once bubbled...
sounds like an open minded individual!?!

I don't believe he, nor anyone else, ever claimed he was open minded :)

WW

[faye]

good call

lol