Has Nikon gone mad?

[cdiver2]

I just receved this ad for Nikon/Canon new cameras A Pair of Mid-Size Hotties from Nikon & Canon | B&H Photo Video Pro Audio (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/newsLetter/Mid-Size-Hotties.jsp)

Is there a need for a high end still camera to do movies or a GPS !?

[John_B]

The Nikon video mode is actually using the live mode view with a good sensor to get that many "frames" to support video, and does it through the lens of an SLR, which is really what makes it unique. So you use existing glass to do things like fisheye wide angle and depth of field techniques. The DOF is where its really at, because standard HD video has a real deep DOF with everything in focus, vs. selective focus (which is more about cinematography than anything else). That part at least is very cool. The shortcomings of this, and why Nikon put it in a prosumer camera and not a top end model, is that the video has a 5 minute limit because that's the amount of time it takes for the sensor itself to overheat. Frankly, that's when the BS flag went up for me, when I'm burning the sensor out of a dSLR to take video I gotta wonder what the point is. Really, its not that its not a cool concept, its just the early implementation that has some serious problems. Not just the above, but that there is no sound input (n.b. I didn't say there weren't stereo audio inputs, there isn't even a mono input). And the camera form factor is pretty much crap for taking video in the first place. But there are some camera fora where this thing is being astroturfed to an extremely high level (funded of course by the powers that be at the big N). There are people so duped that they are saying the will sell all their Canon stuff (and the glass is where the costs are) which is crap because Canon, Sony, etc. will be all over this in 3/6/9/12 months. So IMO its not the be all/end all, but it is a step in a cool new direction. What really needs to happen (and I say this as a recovering shutterbug without any real education or experience with digital video) is that the digital video cameras need to get better lenses so the amateur cinematographer can "tell the story" with techniques like selective focus, etc. the same way the pros do. IMO (and again I'm not an expert in video but I am a huge fan) the story on the video end is being written by Big Red (http://www.red.com/) (which is the guy who started Oakley) starting with the Red One 4K and the new 5K Epic which hasn't been released yet.

As far as the GPS is concerned, I can see where optional recording of GPS coordinates would be cool. I did a weeklong amateur photoshoot in the Sierra Nevada's where the canisters were all numbered and the sites recorded with Sharpie on a 7.5 topo map. The thing is, you could do that with an iPhone app these days, it probably doesn't need to be built into the camera body. But again, a step in a cool direction.

Me, I'm still waiting for an L series 18-200 lens from Canon.

Then again, take this all with a grain of salt. Many years ago (pre-digital) I once took 71 pictures of the same flower (different lighting/glass/film) trying to get that "one" art shot. :D

[cdiver2]

The Nikon video mode is actually using the live mode view with a good sensor to get that many "frames" to support video, and does it through the lens of an SLR, which is really what makes it unique. So you use existing glass to do things like fisheye wide angle and depth of field techniques. The DOF is where its really at, because standard HD video has a real deep DOF with everything in focus, vs. selective focus (which is more about cinematography than anything else). That part at least is very cool. The shortcomings of this, and why Nikon put it in a prosumer camera and not a top end model, is that the video has a 5 minute limit because that's the amount of time it takes for the sensor itself to overheat. Frankly, that's when the BS flag went up for me, when I'm burning the sensor out of a dSLR to take video I gotta wonder what the point is. Really, its not that its not a cool concept, its just the early implementation that has some serious problems. Not just the above, but that there is no sound input (n.b. I didn't say there weren't stereo audio inputs, there isn't even a mono input). And the camera form factor is pretty much crap for taking video in the first place. But there are some camera fora where this thing is being astroturfed to an extremely high level (funded of course by the powers that be at the big N). There are people so duped that they are saying the will sell all their Canon stuff (and the glass is where the costs are) which is crap because Canon, Sony, etc. will be all over this in 3/6/9/12 months. So IMO its not the be all/end all, but it is a step in a cool new direction. What really needs to happen (and I say this as a recovering shutterbug without any real education or experience with digital video) is that the digital video cameras need to get better lenses so the amateur cinematographer can "tell the story" with techniques like selective focus, etc. the same way the pros do. IMO (and again I'm not an expert in video but I am a huge fan) the story on the video end is being written by Big Red (http://www.red.com/) starting with the Red One 4K and the new 5K Epic which hasn't been released yet.

As far as the GPS is concerned, I can see where optional recording of GPS coordinates would be cool. I did a weeklong amateur photoshoot in the Sierra Nevada's where the canisters were all numbered and the sites recorded with Sharpie on a 7.5 topo map. The thing is, you could do that with an iPhone app these days, it probably doesn't need to be built into the camera body. But again, a step in a cool direction.

Me, I'm still waiting for an L series 18-200 lens from Canon.

Then again, take this all with a grain of salt. Many years ago (pre-digital) I once took 71 pictures of the same flower (different lighting/glass/film) trying to get that "one" art shot. :D

I would like Canon to come out with something like 12-100 L, at a reasonable price..dream on

[John_B]

I would like Canon to come out with something like 12-100 L, at a reasonable price..dream on
If it were an 18-200 L it wouldn't even have to be at a reasonable price...

[vladimir]

Not just the above, but that there is no sound input (n.b. I didn't say there weren't stereo audio inputs, there isn't even a mono input).

According to the NY Times reviewer, here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/28/technology/personaltech/28pogue.html?pagewanted=2&sq=nikon%20d90&st=cse&scp=2

There’s a microphone and speaker, but the sound is mono.

On Nikonusa.com the camera "tech specs" say:

Movie Modes:

Movie with sound
HD 1280 x 720/24 fps VGA 640 x 424/24 fps QVGA 320 x 216/24 fps

From the B&H specifications page:

Video Recording:

AVI Motion JPEG Movie with sound
HD (1280 x 720 @ 24fps)
VGA 640 x 424 @ 24fps)
QVGA 320 x 216 @ 24fps)
Clip length limited only by available memory

Audio Recording: No

[friscuba]

the story on the video end is being written by Big Red (http://www.red.com/) (which is the guy who started Oakley) starting with the Red One 4K and the new 5K Epic which hasn't been released yet.



Wow, that Big Red looks like quite the camera... but it's also a $17.5K ten pound behemoth, $22K with recommended lens. I'm thinking it's being marketed towards serious film hobbyists and film makers.

I'm personally glad the major camera mass producers are adding video to their DSLRs. Canon just announced 30fps 1080p on their new 5D release, with a time limit of course. I didn't know the reason for the time limits prior to reading your post. At least we'll have options for some short video without having to set up a whole new camera/housing. My suspicion is that if the video quality can get to where it competes with the 400 buck camcorders out there, you'll see a lot more people picking up DSLRs with video than making 2 separate purchases.

[John_B]

Video taken with the Nikon D90 suffers from "jelly movement". Here is a link to a video snippet (http://s477.photobucket.com/albums/rr134/jamesmel9/?action=view&current=DSC_0012.flv) (photobucket.com) that is making the rounds of some of the camera forums... As you can see the skew is completely unacceptable with any sort of panning. Apparently this is due to the slow read-reset rate of the CMOS imaging hardware used in dSLRs. I've had the chance to verify this for myself with the Nikon D90, and I'm told (but can't yet verify, obviously) that the announced-but-not-yet-shipping Canon 5D Mark II may suffer from the same technical shortcoming.

There are good digital video cameras out there today that will do 1080p that are relatively reasonably priced; at least for the time being to get tack-sharp photos and HD video we are going to have to have two types of cameras. The Holy Grail used to be if you could use your camera glass for a video camera (and cinematographically speaking, Kubrick's work in that area is still the gold standard, but in his case cost was no object). Now it seems everyone thinks that the Holy Grail ought to be to wire digital video out of a dSLR (and theoretically the concept is off-the-charts cool). Unfortunately the technology for the digital imaging sensors used in dSLRs just doesn't seem to be up to snuff -- not yet, anyway.

FWIW, it shouldn't surprise anyone that the people at Big Red are working this problem from the other side. Given that they already have engineered their own rapid read-reset CMOS sensors, they are going to be selling a digital video unit that will allegedly also do the highest quality still photos. A dSLR killer, if you will. If anyone could do that, it would be those guys.

If nothing else, we live in interesting times. :D

[BobbyNiel]

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