Well yesturday I went up to the wonderfull Seattle area for a day of shopping, on my list of places to stop were REI (never had been) where I found some nice new polartec long underware for my drysuit. And Fifth Dimension Dive shop (I ened up going to both stores, and liked the Kent much better, had more DIR type gear on display) I walked out of FifthD 2hours later (including running off to lunch) with a 36# Pioneer Wing, BP, and Harness :), as well as a ScubaPro Mk25, S550 Primary, and R380 Backup Regulator, with Hogarthian/DIR hose config of the 7' Primary hose, and 22" backup hose, on a necklace.
What a glorious day, I can't wait to get out and dive it all... I'm really looking forward to my club dive this month as there will be other BP users there to help me make sure I have it all set up proper. FifthD set it up and helped me adjust it some, but it still needs some tweaking, with D-Ring locations, and with me wearing my dry suit. Plus I think he tightened the harness more when he put the wing and all on. I think I have my chest Drings located right (at my collar bone) but I think the harness is too tight, I don't think I'll be able to get it on with a drysuit on. The waist strap also seems like it needs loosening on the buckle side, it's sitting just a little too close to center line, and the Crotch strap needs a little work.
On the crotch strap there is the one Dring on the back side (butt area) where exactly is that supposed to be? should it be up close to the plate, down by my butt, or ??
Well Thanks to all for the help in convincing me that the BP/Wing and long hose are not just maybe the Right Way but the Best way... I can't wait to dive it, and I can't wait to see the look on my Rescue Diver Instructors face when he sees my hose config and BC :D Also, how bad is clorine on all the gear? I know it's bad, and I don't really want to take my gear in the pool, BUT if it's what I'm going to dive, I need to do the pool skills using my rig, especially since it is not the same config as what my instructor has.
Uncle Pug
March 30th, 2003, 02:07 PM
a lot of folks don't have the shoulder straps tight enough! You should be able to reach over with your right hand to you shoulder dump valve on the drysuit though.
Pool cholorine is really bad (IMO) and I certainly wouldn't subject any of my dive gear to it. I don't get why you need to go to the pool with an instructor who doesn't dive a bp/wing DIR setup. Why are you not doing this in shallow water with folks from your club who do dive the same rig? You are AOW certified right?
BTW, the butt ring needs to be in a location that you can reach back and touch it with your right hand... too high and the tank(s) will be in the way. Be sure to put your crotch strap loop through the front d-ring to hold it out of the way if you are not scooter diving.
Hey... you shouldn't have come all the way up here without diving with your dear Uncle Pug... what's up with that?!?!
WillAbbott
March 30th, 2003, 02:29 PM
Ok some clarification on my part Pug. I'm doing Rescue Diver this term in School, it get's me a credit twoard my degree, and farther education. My goal ATM is to eventually reach (which might be sooner as one other school has the class available) DiveMaster, and possibly Instructor through my current agency of PADI. On top of that I plan on doing IANTD Nitrox, Deep Air, and maybe Tri-Mix (all of which are way down the road just due to the cost of the classes, except maybe the Nitrox, and DM Class)
So thats what I meant, I'm going to be diving it with a non DIR or BP/Wing instructor. I've already used the BP/Wing before of course, and my club dive in 2 weeks will be with some DIR type people (actually not sure they are DIR, but deffinately Hogarthian) etc... But my class will be the typical Rescue Diver class through PADI, only I feel it's important to do it with my actuall O/W rig. And yes I am curently AOW. I'll play with the butt ring when I can, I think I have it in a location that fits all that criteria.
The reason I didn't go find UP and Dive is that I wasn't up alone, and couldn't go diving... I was up with someone else, and didn't have the opportunity... HOWEVER!!!! I just got a call Thrusday about a Job I applied for and they offered me the job, which I will be calling them back and accepting on Monday, at a summer camp, in Bellvue (on W Lake Sammaish, just off I-90) SO!!! UP, I will be in Seattle area ALL summer long, and NEED a dive buddie or 2... Hint, hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge ;) :D
I belive I start up there end of June or Beggining of July, and will be there 8weeks, until early September, I really hope to get out diving a BUNCH while I'm up there... not sure how weekdays (evenings) will work, but I know we will have from Friday Afternoon/Evening until Sunday Afternoon off each weekend, so I know all but like 2 of my saturdays (staff functions) will be free, and I will just HAVE to get wet while I'm so close to prime diving...
PM me if you want, and I can give you more details on where I will be located, and my Cell Phone/E-mail... More likely than not, Cell Phone will be the best way to reach me, as I'm not sure how good of access I will have to E-mail other than stopping in weekly to a friends house in Redmond.
Hope that clarified some, I will check the D-Ring and such later, and as soon as the Aquaseal dries (found 2 small holes in my drysuit after last dive :() I will check the fit with my suit on.
ElectricZombie
March 30th, 2003, 03:06 PM
WillAbbott once bubbled...
I walked out of FifthD 2hours later (including running off to lunch) with a 36# Pioneer Wing, BP, and Harness :), as well as a ScubaPro Mk25, S550 Primary, and R380 Backup Regulator, with Hogarthian/DIR hose config of the 7' Primary hose, and 22" backup hose, on a necklace.
Cool!! Good choices on everything. :thumb:
Dryglove
March 30th, 2003, 10:37 PM
Congratulations on your BP/wing.It must be an epidemic or something. I wish i could go visit fifthd in person.
I was thinking of selling mine and buying a transpack or similar. Ok im only kidding so calm down.... :D Sorry i couldnt resist.I love my BP/wing more everytime i dive it.
Here is a link to help adjust your BP http://www.baue.org/images/galleries/view_album.php?set_albumName=equipment&page=1
If your lucky and sweet talk pug ill bet he would custom fit it for you.If not go be the web and keep your fingers crossed.I had my shoulder straps way to tight at first and man was it miserable.Properly adjusted its a dream.
Ziggys_Friend
March 31st, 2003, 03:18 AM
WillAbbott once bubbled...
I'm really looking forward to my club dive this month as there will be other BP users there to help me make sure I have it all set up proper. FifthD set it up and helped me adjust it some, but it still needs some tweaking, with D-Ring locations, and with me wearing my dry suit. Plus I think he tightened the harness more when he put the wing and all on. I think I have my chest Drings located right (at my collar bone) but I think the harness is too tight, I don't think I'll be able to get it on with a drysuit on. The waist strap also seems like it needs loosening on the buckle side, it's sitting just a little too close to center line, and the Crotch strap needs a little work.
On the crotch strap there is the one Dring on the back side (butt area) where exactly is that supposed to be? should it be up close to the plate, down by my butt, or ??
Congratulations! I'm a new convert myself and just got back from a DIR/F course this weekend where I had my fit adjusted so let me share the wealth as best I can.
1) Harness ... you want it pretty tight with dry suit on .. try wearing the dry suit and bp/wings and bend over (be nice!) so you're torso is horizontal to the ground. In that position you (or your partner) should be able to get about two fingers between your harness and your chest. You don't want it too tight, but it'll probably get a little looser in the water so you might want to wait till after a dive or two to adjust it.
2) Chest rings ... think DUI on the highway ... seriously, standing with your arms directly out to the sides and bring them straight in horizontally and that's where your ring should be.
3) Waist strap ... I assume you mean buckle position. Yes, it should be just right of your center so the crotch strap can come up right in the middle (now isn't that fun). Knife goes on the waist strap to the left of the crotch strap.
4) Crotch strap, you want it tight, but your waist strap should still be at your waist.
5) Front D ring - this is your scooter attachment point, so unless you're ... scootering ... flip the ring up and thread the strap though it to keep it out of the way.
6) Rear D ring ... you want this about 4 fingers distance down from the bottom of your BP. Higher and you won't be able to reach it (under your tank), lower and things will hang down too much and be in the way.
Hope that helps ... and again, welcome to the wonderful world of BP/Wings!
~<//><
Jonathan
March 31st, 2003, 03:53 AM
ziggys_friend are you saying you have two D rings on your crotch strap? Never seen that - what's the rear one for?
cheers
Jonathan
MechDiver
March 31st, 2003, 12:00 PM
Jonathan once bubbled...
ziggys_friend are you saying you have two D rings on your crotch strap? Never seen that - what's the rear one for?
cheers
Jonathan
Halycon straps have 2. Butt is supposed to be for reel or tying off SMB stored in bp pouch. Remember something about using it to tow your spare Gavin.
Also a nice conversation item:)
MD
GearHead
March 31st, 2003, 01:27 PM
Congrats, Will. I'm sure waiting to dive the new gear is killing you, I love that feeling! :D
I'd love to join you and UP for some diving while you're up here this Summer. We can PM about it later.
Have fun dialing in the fit on your harness, you'll have it "just right" in no time.
Arnaud
March 31st, 2003, 01:31 PM
... from a new member, too.
Uncle Pug
March 31st, 2003, 01:32 PM
MechDiver once bubbled...
Remember something about using it to tow your spare Gavin.
But for those of us who only have one scooter... that is where your buddy hangs on for a tow home after he clips his dead scooter off to his own butt ring.
MechDiver
March 31st, 2003, 02:36 PM
Uncle Pug once bubbled...
But for those of us who only have one scooter... that is where your buddy hangs on for a tow home after he clips his dead scooter off to his own butt ring.
I **really** have a problem feeling sorry for scooter people :D
Where were you over the weekend? We sucked down some He and managed to scare *ell out of the OW students
MD
Uncle Pug
March 31st, 2003, 05:15 PM
MechDiver once bubbled...
Where were you over the weekend?
We didn't get to dive Saturday as we spent too much time working at the marina... we took the SS boom off of Uncle Pug (the boat) and cut the SS mast and dropped it to get ready for hauling the boat to Shane's. The plan is to rebuild the house, do some glass work and build up a portable surface supplied membrane nitrox system to get it ready for commercial harvest work. That really messed up the day.
Sunday after Church we went for a short shore dive.
Where were you?
MechDiver
March 31st, 2003, 05:43 PM
Uncle Pug once bubbled...
Sunday after Church we went for a short shore dive.
Where were you?
Probably about that time heading up I-5 for home. If your vis was like Hood Canal, you didn't miss much not diving.
MD
Ziggys_Friend
March 31st, 2003, 06:21 PM
Jonathan once bubbled...
ziggys_friend are you saying you have two D rings on your crotch strap? Never seen that - what's the rear one for?
cheers
Jonathan
Yep, 2 rings ... MechDiver got it in one (err, so to speak).
~<//><
P.S. If you do tie off a reel to the back ring (is that an ass ring?) ... hummm .... If you're also wearing a weight belt you want to route the crotch strap under the belt so it's ditchable (assuming you're diving ocean). Just a suggestion ... be careful the reel doesn't get caught on the weightbelt ... can't imagine where I learned that ...
Jonathan
March 31st, 2003, 06:59 PM
I want a reel back there - sounds painful! Doesn't it get in the way? I can understand from an entanglement point-of-view but with mine on the right hip tucked behind the canister I don't think there is much in the way of extra snagging points.
Jonathan
MechDiver
March 31st, 2003, 07:05 PM
Jonathan once bubbled...
I want a reel back there - sounds painful! Doesn't it get in the way? Jonathan
If you sneak up behind your buddy and let out about 5 feet of line, its almost as good as a scooter ;)
MD
WreckWriter
March 31st, 2003, 07:30 PM
Ziggys_Friend once bubbled...
P.S. If you do tie off a reel to the back ring (is that an ass ring?) ... hummm .... If you're also wearing a weight belt you want to route the crotch strap under the belt so it's ditchable (assuming you're diving ocean). Just a suggestion ... be careful the reel doesn't get caught on the weightbelt ... can't imagine where I learned that ...
Interesting. While I realize that you're a newly made expert since the weekend I wonder where you learned that a weightbelt goes over the harness. Last I heard it was the opposite. Has that thinking changed?
Please be careful about providing bad info such as recommending 30/30 in 165 feet of water. A DIRF does not qualify one as a trimix diver.
WW
Munin
March 31st, 2003, 08:09 PM
The issue of rear D-rings just came up on Quest. To summarize everything, scooters go on the front ring only, towing is done by the holding on to the strap, and only reels go on the rear ring.
Some people also don't like carrying reels on the rear d-ring in the ocean. Personally I don't but do it on occasion. I'll carry it on the left d-ring without stages and occasionally clipped to a stage neck boltsnap if I'll be taking it off right away.
If I dove rec only I would take it off, but that's just me.
SeaJay
March 31st, 2003, 11:44 PM
...What the problem is. I keep my spool on the butt ring... And I think it's a great place for it. Admittedly, a spool is much more compact than a reel, but that's a place which is right underneath the tank and is simultanously in the slipstream (causing no additional drag) and out of the way.
Why would it not be a great place for a reel or spool? Outta sight and outta mind until you need it...
Jonathan
April 1st, 2003, 12:58 AM
I may be visioning it wrong - but it sounds like a reel would be dangling a little bit. I have very big legs and in particular thighs that run together - I ware out trousers very quickly.
Sounds unconfortable to me - I can always give it a go because I don't have a scooter (I usually use that ring if I want to put my camera somewhere in a hurry) so I can give it a try if I ever get wet again! It's been toooooo long! I just hope TJO doesn't wimp out again on the 12th....
Jonathan
SeaJay
April 1st, 2003, 01:08 AM
No, no... It doesn't hang down THAT far!
I have big thighs too and the spool/reel doesn't come anywhere close to going between your legs.
It sits on your butt. In fact, it almost sits in the small of your back. The butt D-ring should be as high as possible without interfering with the tank.
A completely assembled setup should place that reel squarely on your butt, and behind the tank, in the slipstream...
Ziggys_Friend
April 1st, 2003, 01:56 AM
WreckWriter once bubbled...
Interesting. While I realize that you're a newly made expert since the weekend I wonder where you learned that a weightbelt goes over the harness. Last I heard it was the opposite. Has that thinking changed?
Please be careful about providing bad info such as recommending 30/30 in 165 feet of water. A DIRF does not qualify one as a trimix diver.
WW
WreckWriter, if I'm anything I'm a newbie DIR-F'pert and in my case the F does not stand for passing with Flying colors ... however, I am clear about some things though I may not have said it clearly. MHK said the crotchstrap should go under the weight belt so the weight remains ditchable. I know there are discussions on the board on weather it should be ditchable or not, but I'm just passing on what I was taught (and remember we were diving ocean). I found threading the crotch strap that way is a lot easier said than done - practically I found I needed to put my weight belt on first and then thread the crotch strap under it ... pain in the you know what and I'm getting an ACB ASAP.
As for being qualified as a trimix diver, perish the thought! If I gave that impression I sincerly withdraw it. However, I could swear what I said was over 100 feet they recommend going to 30/30 till ~165? Maybe that's way wrong, I couldn't remember the depth the mix switches and that's why I'm sure I put the question mark in.
~<//><
SeaJay
April 1st, 2003, 03:26 AM
Ziggys_Friend once bubbled...
I'm getting an ACB ASAP.
...Apologies for stepping in here, but if I can offer just a tidbit... Slap me if you want me to shut up. You didn't ask my opinion. :D
Like you, I'm also a newbie. Even if I wasn't a newbie, I'd still profess to be one. There's always someone with more experience, more skills, and more expertise on the board. WW is probably one of them... He's been diving a long time and is respected for his expertise. Certainly he looks at us both as newbies, Ziggys_Friend, and rightly so.
Firstly, relative to weights... I, too, hate weight belts, for exactly the same reason you listed above. Some people on this board (UP in particular) have very authentic points about why not to have your weights integrated into your bp/wings (or other buoyancy device). They claim that keeping them separate is the way to go. That debate is pertinent here, but for the sake of trying to keep my notoriously long posts to a minimum, I'll save that debate for another time.
ACB systems are gently discussed in the DIR-F manual, and they are not necessarily frowned upon. However, I've observed that many people try to avoid ACB systems because they add to the bulk of the rig and prevent the addition of more useful tools such as a canister light or Halcyon "hard pocket." They also force you to "tuck" the long hose, which some people prefer to hooking under a light or pocket - I personally am not one of those people.
That said, if faced with the choice of diving with a weight belt or an ACB system, I'm in the same boat with you... I'd choose an ACB system, 'cause I hate weight belts (at least while wearing a scuba rig of some sort... I prefer to wear one when freediving. Then again, I also wear a snorkel when I freedive, too, but that's another story.)
However, there is a third option which seems to be the most popular with experienced divers, but requires a much more "in depth" approach to proper weighting and trim. No doubt it was addressed in your recent DIR-F course, and so you should be very familiar with it.
Imagine this... You purchase your ACB system, and install it on your rig. From that point on, you'll have four "modes" that your ACB will be in... One for salt water with a single tank, one for salt with doubles, and again for fresh with a single, and fresh with doubles. After some diving in all four circumstances, you will, no doubt, end up with a very good working knowlege of what, exactly, you need in terms of weight before setting foot in the water.
And what I see is that people then dial in their bp/wing system such that they need little to no ditchable with singles/fresh, and simply add the required weight through the use of STA's, channel weights, p-weights, light cannisters, and the like. When each of these are planned properly, you can easily mathematically figure when and how much ditchable weight you need (if at all, depending on what you're comfortable swimming up and whether or not you have redundant buoyancy in a drysuit. Redundant first stages either on a single or a manifold solves many problems too.)
I guess what I'm saying is that as per the discussions which no doubt happened on the Friday night of your DIR-F class, there are ways to solve the weighting problem that simultaneously get rid of the weight belt, avoid the purchase of expensive and bulky ACB systems, and still keep you safe. Some people (UP included) still dive with a little weight on a weight belt (or some other ditchable item) but since the weight is so minimal, the giant, obtrusive weight belt is reduced to a managable size.
Furthermore, if that weight belt is still desired (I know I would want to avoid it or minimize it personally) then it may be placed either underneath the crotchstrap or over the crotchstrap, depending on whether you're diving in a drysuit or a wetsuit.
I'm assuming that you're diving wet if your preference is to keep the belt over the crotchstrap.
My point is that there are other cheaper, simpler, more streamlined, and more DIR ways to do this besides either ACB's or weight belts.
...So with all due respect, and from newbie to newbie, I would recommend keeping your weight belt, and "dialing in" your bp/wing with the right amount of weight (not to mention minimizing the amount of weight you need anyway) so that this hatred for the weight belt is no longer an issue.
What I see from most DIR divers who have gone down this path before is that if they purchase the ACB system, they quickly end up continuing to "dial in" the weight of their bp/wing anyway, and the ACB system quickly becomes devalued.
And as soon as that happens, they don't feel that the extra bulk is worth it anyway.
Of course, that's just my $.02, which you didn't ask for anyway. :D
raxafarian
April 1st, 2003, 06:07 AM
Ziggys_Friend once bubbled...
MHK said the crotchstrap should go under the weight belt so the weight remains ditchable. ~<//><
?? It's still ditchable with the crotchstrap over the weight belt. I can't imagine a situation where the extra 1/4-1/2 second to pull the weight belt from under the crotchstrap would matter. Plus, in my opinion, it adds a slight measure of security to KEEP the weightbelt from being accidentally dropped.
Ziggys_Friend
April 1st, 2003, 06:49 AM
SeaJay
Thanks for your thoughts. As you say, the less weight carried around the waist the better and I'm all for that. Heck, I dove an LP 95 this weekend for just that reason, less weight and brought the weight belt because I wanted the chance to experience it and talk with MHK about this very issue before I decided if/what to buy.
Also, as you say, there are several scenarios that I have to deal with - fresh water vs. salt water - cave diving vs. ocean - wetsuit vs. dry suit etc. However, for lots of reasons, for the foreseeable future I see myself primarily diving a wetsuit in the ocean.
Hence, when I asked MHK what type tanks he thought I should be diving and why AL80's are the DIR of choice in the ocean it became clear. Given diving Ocean in a wetsuit, I don't have the dry suit as a "back-up" BC. I have to plan for the very real world of hurt that would come from being 100' down with a failed BC needing to swim up (let alone adding a OOA buddy etc.). Having been there/done that re DIR-F you know how challenging that type situation can be ... sheeeshk ... we did a simple little OOA combined with no face mask and our buoyancy went all to hell!
Bottom line, at least until I move to a dry suit I'm sticking with a reasonable amount of ditchable weight and I'd much rather put that on the harness than add the additional weight belt.
Admittedly I'm new at this, but I found the separate weight belt getting in my way a lot. The crotch strap issue was minor, but as I'm working to develop my muscle memory I just would rather have that out of the way and hence the ACB. If/when I switch to a dry suit I may well shift to another weighting system and eliminate ditchable weight, but that's then and this is now. Personally, I figure I'll always be able to resell a good ACB system on ebay should that time come.
~<//><
P.S. SeaJay, did I ever mention how much your post on your DIR-F experience inspired me to go? It's true, though having reread it I can't for the life of me figure why>!?@ Again, thanks.
Ziggys_Friend
April 1st, 2003, 07:01 AM
raxafarian once bubbled...
?? It's still ditchable with the crotch strap over the weight belt. I can't imagine a situation where the extra 1/4-1/2 second to pull the weight belt from under the crotch strap would matter. Plus, in my opinion, it adds a slight measure of security to KEEP the weight belt from being accidentally dropped.
Fair argument and I can see your point. I think this is one of those items that I could argue either way and that ultimately leads me back to getting ACB weights.
Under the weight belt: It's almost certainly going to be more than 1/4-1/2 a second to pull that sucker free ... remember it's lead weight and we're talking about adding this little action at a time when I'm not likely to be thinking my clearest (hence the need for muscle memory, simplicity etc.). Also, what happens if I'm not the one doing the freeing of the weight - say I'm loosing it, OOA since my Wing was just punctured by a passing Great White and now I'm 100' down, buddy breathing and holding the two of us down like a rock ... well, you get the picture. Bottom line, IF we need to ditch the weight, time and simplicity rule.
Over the weight belt; I'm 100' down and "accidentally" free my weight belt ... that should be quite a rocket ride ... sure hope I'm heading into a hyperbolic chamber - do not pass go, do not collect $100. Believe me, I get the danger here too.
SO ... To me that leads me back to wanting weight that's secure yet ditchable. The fact that only 1/2 the weight in an ACB can be released at a time is a bonus.
Thoughts?
~<//><
Spectre
April 1st, 2003, 09:33 AM
Ziggys_Friend once bubbled...
Thoughts?
Well, This concept is DIMW - Doing it My Way.
Your weight serves two purposes. The first is offsetting the compression of your exposure suit. The second is to account for the weight of the gas in your tanks.
At the start of a dive with an AL80 tank, you should be 6 lbs overweight. Thus neutral with an empty tank at the end of the dive.
The average human lungs can displace ~9 lbs. So that means your lungs have a range of 4.5 negative to 4.5 lbs positive.
So if you carry enough ditchable weight to offset the air you used, then you will be setting your weight to something handleable during your ascent.
e.g. with aluminum 80s, carry 2 x 3lbs ditchable. If you have a problem with a full tank, you can ditch all 6 lbs. If you have a problem with a half tank, you can ditch 3 lbs.
This way you are never positive enough to not be able to control w/ your lungs.
I don't believe that a BC failure is an accident serious enough to accept the risks of an uncontrolled ascent.
Jonathan
April 1st, 2003, 10:11 AM
now I'm struggling with this one - how do you get your weight belt over the crotch strap? The strap comes from the harness under your bum to the buckle area in the front which would mean you have to put the weight belt very low. Anyone got any pics of this?
As to the reel - I have my smbs in the small of my back so that sounds very uncomfortable putting my reels (usually dive with 2) there. I'd need to see and feel that to be convinced - next time I'm in the pool maybe.
Jonathan
WillAbbott
April 1st, 2003, 10:16 AM
If my memory serves correctly (and I will probably re watch it again today to confirm) in the DIR-3 Video George Irvine says something along the lines of "if you're wearing a wet suit you want the weight belt over the BP Harness and crotch strap so it's easily ditchable in an instant, if you're wearing a dry suit you want it under the harness and crotch strap because now you really don't want it to come off accidentally, and if you need to remove the extra time won't hurt you" Something along thoose lines...
Granted I've never read the DIR-F book, nor been to a class (I'm hoping I can take the class this summer while I'm up there near Fifth-D all summer) so I don't know this stuff well, just seem to recall that being what George said in the DIR3 Video. Check it if you want, I plan on doing so to see if I remembered it right or not.
SeaJay
April 1st, 2003, 11:37 AM
Ziggys_Friend once bubbled...
SeaJay
P.S. SeaJay, did I ever mention how much your post on your DIR-F experience inspired me to go? It's true, though having reread it I can't for the life of me figure why>!?@ Again, thanks.
Wow! Really? How flattering! Very cool! :D ...So what'd you think of the class? Did it get to you like it got to me?
I'm with ya on the ACB's... And for the same reason... Most of my diving is done in the ocean, in a 3/2 mil suit.
Good luck with this.
pcscuba
April 1st, 2003, 12:10 PM
Could someone please tell where online or other places that I can go to see exactly what a DIR Setup actually consists of?:confused:
MechDiver
April 1st, 2003, 12:16 PM
pcscuba once bubbled...
Could someone please tell where online or other places that I can go to see exactly what a DIR Setup actually consists of?:confused:
