Why train as a DiveMaster?

[Lee Taylor]

I am considering taking the DiveMaster training. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcomed. What should I expect? Is the primary focus of the DiveMaster course, the training of students? Learning new skills? Learning boat activity management? Employment? What are the employment opportunitys for a divemaster? What is the typical pay rate?

:scubahelmet:

[jimdiverman]

Pay rate? Do you like to work for tips?

[Lee Taylor]

Pay rate? Do you like to work for tips?

I have four other income sources that more than pay my bills so income is not my purpose. My purpose is that I feel I have something to offer beginners. I did notice in some ads that the scuba "Instructor" makes about 25k per year. I am sure there are variations to that figure depending on personal situations. What I am deriving from your reply is that one typically does not sell "DiveMaster" services.

[String]

I am considering taking the DiveMaster training. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcomed. What should I expect? Is the primary focus of the DiveMaster course, the training of students?

Yes. Nearly all the divemaster course and especially the practical course is gearing the person to assist in teaching courses or acting as a supervisor role for lesser experienced divers.
There is very little in the course itself about improving and expanding your own personal dive skills - its all about getting the 22 or so skills from the core courses to demo quality and looking out for others.


What are the employment opportunitys for a divemaster? What is the typical pay rate?

Employment may depend where. In lots of places DMs wont get paid or employed (its freelance). "pay" will be usually just free fills or free boat trips as opposed to a salary. In lots of busy places in the world it'll be at or below minimum wage for 12hr days, 7 days a week. Most people do DM as its a step towards instructor only.

My view, if you want to go about teaching people to dive, go for DM. If you want to improve your own skillset and knowledge, do something like a advanced nitrox course, gue course and so on instead.

I don't see the point of anyone doing DM if they dont want to assist or become an instructor.

(Note this is PADI, other agencies may differ).

[Nemrod]

The pupose of the dive master is to supply dive shops with a supply of willing and motivated zero pay laborers to take all the risk exposure and run the cash treadmill and do all of the heavy lifiting, sweep the shop, wash the boat down, clean up the puke etc.

N

[JayJudge]

DM- Dive Mule as we refer to it. When I worked with an instructor, it was lump tanks, watch students, set up his gear, lump it to the water (he weighed 427 pounds, so you can imagine the lead needed....) All this, and I was offered free fills. I personally do plan on becoming an instructor, but I am already a music teacher, so obviously, I love to teach.
Nowdays, I work on a boat in NC. Being a DM teaches nothing about boat management, but it does put you through some skills you will need. Guided dives for new divers, looking over divers to see what skill levels they are- cards mean nothing IMHO. Diving off a perfectly good boat in 6 ft seas because you get to swim after someone that missed the lines. Helping sooth nerves for someone's first ocean dives. A lot of these are basic rescue skills, the pro rating is required for insurance purposes. As for the other fun things I get to do, that weren't taught in DM, helping a diver set up their gear or put them in a wetsuit because they are seasick. Climbing into the engine compartment because we are 30 miles to sea and lost a clamp on the port side engine. Insanely hanging off the wheelhouse with 150 pounds of gear on, anchor in one hand, and having my heart in my chest as I hear the "GO!!!!" to plunge 120 ft, hoping to find the wreck, find a good spot on it that we can hook, and then try to destress on the dive.....
What do I get for all this? Well, my fills are free, my boat rides are free, I get lunch, and a place to stay. Then, if I am lucky, I get tips. Its amazing though, people tip 15% for a bad dinner, and $20 for a 3 days of diving (not even 5%). Still, to me it is worth it, but, as it states you are 55, you might think about not working on a boat. That is not to be mean, as one of the best DMs I have know was 64. What it is though, is people's safe return to the boat on a bad day (pretty, flat, clear days rarely have that type of problem) may be dependent on your swimming 400 yds or more to catch a panicked diver, then helping to pull them back aboard to help with O2 or CPR or anything else. That can cause a lot of strain.
As for things like discover local diving, etc, that can be very rewarding. When I am playing at a quarry and see someone with 'the look of scary green water- I know it, I had on my first dive after OW)' , I truly enjoy talking to them, being part of their buddy team, whatever. But then, I only go to pay quarries for fun, usually with some other DMs. Any of the limited access ones are where I am looking for stuff for my own purposes. Sorry to go on so much, I just thought you might like to hear from a working DM.
-J

[Lee Taylor]

The pupose of the dive master is to supply dive shops with a supply of willing and motivated zero pay laborers to take all the risk exposure and run the cash treadmill and do all of the heavy lifiting, sweep the shop, wash the boat down, clean up the puke etc.

N

Great reply. Precisely what my negative side was thinking. All that aside, I do feel I have significant knowledge and skills to offer. I will likely give it a whirl, but only for the purpose of helping others in a position I was once in. Thankyou for your perspective.

[InTheDrink]

I don't see the point of anyone doing DM if they dont want to assist or become an instructor.

They do say that the best proof that you know/understand something is if you can teach it.

That said, it's an interesting topic. I always assumed I'd do my Rescue and then do my DM but my interest is primarily in safety and becoming a better diver so perhaps that's not the optimum route to my goal

[String]

They do say that the best proof that you know/understand something is if you can teach it.

Possibly but the teaching is a narrow range of skillsets as opposed to broad diving. DM teaches you how to teach mainly.

[Paco II]

I had felt the same way. My LDS is constantly trying to get me to do the DM/DiveCon course. But honestly, I have no intention of teaching, have no desire to be a dive mule, and lastly, just don't think it is worth the almost $2k it would cost me to do the course.


...That said, it's an interesting topic. I always assumed I'd do my Rescue and then do my DM but my interest is primarily in safety and becoming a better diver so perhaps that's not the optimum route to my goal

[JayJudge]

Wow $2K! Even the shop I did it through (counting books etc) was less than $600. If you want to become a better diver, simply get into a tech course. You learn what to do if you go into deco, how to shoot bags, most instructors will help you with your bouyancy, etc, etc. Just because you know how to plan a deco dive doesn't mean you have to do a deco every time.....or ever...its up to you. For me, being a DM allows me to do my wreck diving for free, or rather, at less of a loss. The whole of the liabilty issues comes into play as a pro too. Get a copy of Law and the Diving Professional, it is worth the read.
-J

[Paco II]

My LDS told me it was roughly $1400 for course and materials, then I added in about $600 for all the motel stays I would have to have. Still, way more than your $600. Maybe I'll come to your LDS ;) But seriously, as has been mentioned, if all one wants is to improve their diving skills, there are better routes then the DM/DiveCon one.


Wow $2K! Even the shop I did it through (counting books etc) was less than $600. ...

[Lee Taylor]

DM- Dive Mule as we refer to it. When I worked with an instructor, it was lump tanks, watch students, set up his gear, lump it to the water (he weighed 427 pounds, so you can imagine the lead needed....) All this, and I was offered free fills.
-J

This is something I will probably have a personal problem with. I have done manual labor by personal choice and I have done manual labor for pay but paying someone so I can do manual labor for them seems demented, sadistic, and just plain wrong. Accepting employment to do manual labor is another thing all together. Taking advantage of people never has gone over big with me. If I focus on my goal of helping others see the beautiful underwater world I suppose helping a few fat lazy ass instructors carry their load could be seen as exercise I need. I have overcome much larger problems than a day of manual labor.

[Nemrod]

Great reply. Precisely what my negative side was thinking. All that aside, I do feel I have significant knowledge and skills to offer. I will likely give it a whirl, but only for the purpose of helping others in a position I was once in. Thankyou for your perspective.


I wasn't saying there might not be some positives to it, especially if you intend to be an instructor or somehow make a non-living in this industry or enjoy working with people.

N

[Hank49]

If you work as a dm in a tropical dive resort area....Caribbean or SE Asia (Philippines, Thailand etc) you don't make much money but you live a pretty good life style. I can't see much reason to put in the effort to be a dm in the midwest or somewhere to do the "mule work" just to dive quarries for free air.

[Zippsy]

Here's my story:

Several years ago, I decided that I wanted to become a dive master. To be honest, part of the reason was to try to get some “free” dive trips but I also wanted to prepare for a fun job to do after an eventual early retirement from my office job. The plan, in the not-to-distant future, was to get out from behind the desk as soon as my son graduated from university.

The physical tests, drills and internship of the dive master program were fairly tough but not extremely difficult. The classroom lessons took a lot of studying but, again, the work was manageable. The problem was that also working a very busy full-time job during the week. Also, I am so competitive that I hate it when anyone else in the class does better than me on a test or a drill. Therefore I was working twice as hard as I might have needed to work. After one arduous week, everything seemed to be getting tougher – then the light bulb went off in my head. Here is my story about that epiphany which I wrote at the time:
__________________________________________________ ______________________

It’s 8:30 on Monday morning and I’m riding the lift up to my office. I’m damned tired and I’m not looking forward to the week. Last week, I was really busy at work but I still had to do the pool sessions on Wednesday and Thursday nights until 10:00pm to help Open Water students practice their drills. When I got home on Thursday night, I had to pack for a dive trip to Tioman on a live-aboard out of Mersing. As part of my dive master training, I, of course, had to lug gear all around and help both students and advanced divers as well as the boat boys with all kinds of things that would have worn me out even 20 years ago. As I got on the lift on that Monday morning, I was thinking to myself that, at 45, I may just be too old to be a dive master student.

There are five other people on the lift. The two going to the 32nd floor are obviously colleagues of each other and the remaining three, who are going up to the 41st floor, must also work together. They are all asking each other what they did over the weekend. The first woman admits that she and her husband “did nothing” all weekend. Her colleague says he watched the Arsenal / Chelsea match on TV. Another guy says he just slept late into the afternoon on both days. One person did some window shopping while the last person actually said “I just read the newspapers”.

What did I do over the weekend? I had a lot of fun. I also helped eleven people have a very enjoyable diving weekend. I helped one woman regain some confidence on her first dives after recovering from a bad decompression injury. I led another diver, on her last dive trip in Asia, to her first sightings of sharks (three at Renggis!) and a turtle (in fact, we saw five including one small Hawksbill with the tail of a fish still sticking out of his mouth at breakfast time). I helped educate some divers about the egg laying habits of cuttlefish.. I also helped make sure all the divers were safe and that they made it back to Singapore so they could tell exaggerated stories to their friends about the size of the sharks that we saw.
I also helped get some very apprehensive students to relax at 12 meters on their first open water dive. I helped make sure they were doing their drills properly so they could gain the confidence to dive. I gave advice to a newly certified diver on how she can make the most of her upcoming trip to the Maldives. I advised students on what equipment they each might need to buy first and how to make sure they were getting their money’s worth.

Suddenly, I started feeling a hell of a lot better on the lift. I remember the exuberance of the happy chatter I heard upon surfacing after one really great dive. I remember the awe I saw in the eyes of the students when they saw a “rock” swim away and change colors and texture (actually, it was a very well camouflaged cuttlefish). I remember the joy on everyone’s face when the last student hit bottom after 20 minutes of battling ear problems. I’m not so tired anymore. I’m now looking forward to the week because I have another pool session this week. I can’t wait.
__________________________________________________ ______________________

What has happened since that elevator ride? I did manage to pass the dive master class and I have since worked one or two weekends every month since then on dive trips to Malaysia. I also earned my Instructor’s card too. I still get goose bumps when I see the reaction of new divers after they see their first turtle, shark or even batfish. I also led a group of divers to the Maldives for a week. My goose bumps were considerably larger after seeing the reaction of seasoned divers seeing their first mantas (twenty at one cleaning station), whale sharks, octopi, dolphins, schools of eagle rays, intimately close encounters with Napoleon Wrasses, etc.

I feel that I have helped educate hundreds of divers about marine life as well as helping improve their diving skills. I have also helped ensure that they have had safe and enjoyable dive trips. Hopefully, that can be partially attributed to identifying risks and dealing with them before they are accidents although I know that luck is also part of the equation too.

I have greatly improved my own diving skills but that is not really something that they teach in the dive master course. I have improved by being constantly reminded that several divers are watching almost every move I make and they will likely try to imitate me. For example, I once knocked a crown-of-thorns off the reef with my pointer. During the next dive, another diver who had earlier seen me do this tried to move a different crown-of-thorns – bare-handed! Needless to say, I learned my lesson then that I better be doing everything by the book.

So, do I still enjoy the work? Without a doubt. It’s the best job in the world. I can’t wait to do it full-time. Is it for you? Maybe. If you want to do it just because you love diving as much as I do, save your money, don’t take the course and dive more often. If you really get a kick out of serving, educating and protecting fellow divers, being a dive master can’t be beat. You can tell by the smile on my face after every dive.

[LowVizWiz]

I'm currently a DMC and have been working with quite a few instructors even before I began to take my DM course and not once have I had to do anything I wouldn't normally do for my dive buddy. If I want to get home quickly I'll pick up his tanks and pack the car we drove while he talks to the students. No slave labor for me thank you very much!

I don't consider filling tanks in an air-conditioned room while talking to divers hard labor. It may be mindless, but not difficult! This shop doesn't even hire DM's to work the store... I do it while I'm there to help out the guy filling the tanks.

Working the boat it's a different story, while the DM does the bulk of the work, all members of this dive shop work as a team (including the instructors), but the DM gets the tips. Other operations are not as helpful. Again it depends who you work for.

You can look at it as paying to do manual labor, I look at it as an opportunity to learn from boat captains, instructors & DMs who all have something to share with you. And while I don't think I'll be working the boat because of my main job and family schedule doesn't allow it on a regular basis, it's great way to meet other divers who want your services and advice.

As far as becoming a better diver, well a rescue course will teach you a lot and tech classes much more than that, but working OW classes will test how YOU react to an emergency. No class can simulate a real life panic diver bolting for the surface (Happened to me assisting my first OW class) Does that make you a better diver? Probably not, but I can tell you that before this class, I would not dive with just anyone and after handling a few real emergencies and leading total strangers I have more confidence in my skills and my ability to cope with the unexpected.

I don't think it's for everyone, I wouldn't do it for a living. But I do enjoy helping divers and there are a lot of rewards if you enjoy that! Leading a group of divers for the first time on a new site that you know very well or having a stranger ask you how to overcome a challenge and seeing them succeed is very rewarding. Can you do that w/o becoming a DM? Sure, but most people ask someone they are diving with or the dive leader. Even the occasional tech diver on a recreational boat appreciates help with heavy gear. Just yesterday we had a guy diving a rebreather and a scooter, he was the best tipper on the boat!

The cost of the course including materials was $800 and honestly I don't know how they do it. I've been diving 4 times a day, twice a week for the last few months. Usually a class in the morning trip(2 dives) and a tour or refresher on the afternoon trip. Just the boat rides alone would be more than what I paid at $60 a pop! Not to mention free nitrox and getting my gear serviced, tanks VIP'd, etc. And that's not just me, because I'm taking the class, but every one who works for them. You do the math!

Now it's not all peaches and cream, I do drive 40 miles one way to work with them, but for me it's been money well spent

Research the shop, dive with them a few times and see how they handle things. Get to now the DM's and ask how it really is to work there.
Finally, figure out what your reason is for taking the course and then make a decision based on that.

I hope this helps you.
Wiz

[RooX]

great story zippsy! really makes it all seem worthwhile. rather inspiring!

[texdiveguy]

I found completing a good DM program to be very useful in terms of skill and knowledge development. I was active as a DM for a couple of years and enjoyed being involved with classes. I never had any interest in going onto the o/w instructor rating. I am now for all practical purposes retired from DMing and now enjoy both sport and technical diving,,,but the DM training and exposure it offered me was a real plus.

[String]

I don't consider filling tanks in an air-conditioned room while talking to divers hard labor. It may be mindless, but not difficult!

You're lucky to have a place like that. Try a typical internship in asia, the med and so on. Filling tanks on the 3am to 5am shift in a boiling hot, poorly ventilated shed knowing you have to be back in work for 8.30 to start try dives. Its not as much fun!

[LowVizWiz]

You're lucky to have a place like that. Try a typical internship in asia, the med and so on. Filling tanks on the 3am to 5am shift in a boiling hot, poorly ventilated shed knowing you have to be back in work for 8.30 to start try dives. Its not as much fun!

I've heard the horror stories and I don't have to go too far, just right here in the Keys!:D

I realize this is not the norm, but you can have a good internship if you search around.

[tridacna]

The pupose of the dive master is to supply dive shops with a supply of willing and motivated zero pay laborers to take all the risk exposure and run the cash treadmill and do all of the heavy lifiting, sweep the shop, wash the boat down, clean up the puke etc.

N

Precisely! After 6 months of dragging twenty or so tanks twice a week IN MY VEHICLE, to the local Y. Training students for 2-3 hours - then carting the equipment back to the shop again. Advising students to buy "shopsold" gear and other delightful activities - I decided that this was not for me. All this for no pay and discounts that never came close to LP's list prices, I let my insurance lapse and just dive. Much more fun.

[AndyNZ]

Sounds like some horror stories out there from previous DMs etc. The "dive mule" style of internship has got to die a death - it actually perpetuates itself, and is not good for the industry.

If you shop around, you will be able to find a good DM course that will help you learn heaps. I agree that the main (only?) reason is if you are wanting to work as a professional diver. Being a DM is often a pre-requisite for commercial diver training in some parts of the world, so it's not just about assisting courses etc.

I'm going to wave the flag for our DM programme. Our DMTs get a lot more than free fills, don't spend time humping tanks, don't pay for travel to the dive sites and are valued members of the team.... and most importantly get more than minimal "read the book, do the knowledge review and sit the exam" training. Access to good instructors is the key.

[HullBlister]

Sounds like some horror stories out there from previous DMs etc. The "dive mule" style of internship has got to die a death - it actually perpetuates itself, and is not good for the industry.

It's gonna take a lot to get that to change. Not too different than the residency that medical students have to go through. It wont change because those that went though it expect those coming up to have to do the same.

"I did it, now so do you."

Also look at the economics. As an industry, I think that recreational SCUBA is second in frugality to recreational sailors. LDSs and resorts need to make money. The indentured servitude of the DM is one place where they can have a lower COO.

So to the OP. Get advanced training. If you want to be a DM out of the goodness of your heart, find a place like the YMCA or a youth camp where you can donate your time and get a warm fuzzy feeling instead of a bitter cold feeling from some place that puts as much value on you as they do the barnacles on the dive boat that they refuse to scrape off because it costs too much to do so.

Blister

[Lee Taylor]

Sounds like some horror stories out there from previous DMs etc. The "dive mule" style of internship has got to die a death - it actually perpetuates itself, and is not good for the industry.

If you shop around, you will be able to find a good DM course that will help you learn heaps. I agree that the main (only?) reason is if you are wanting to work as a professional diver. Being a DM is often a pre-requisite for commercial diver training in some parts of the world, so it's not just about assisting courses etc.

I'm going to wave the flag for our DM programme. Our DMTs get a lot more than free fills, don't spend time humping tanks, don't pay for travel to the dive sites and are valued members of the team.... and most importantly get more than minimal "read the book, do the knowledge review and sit the exam" training. Access to good instructors is the key.

Thanks Andy. Its good to hear the positives also.

[pimpinseacow]

good thread, I feel informed

[String]

Sounds like some horror stories out there from previous DMs etc. The "dive mule" style of internship has got to die a death - it actually perpetuates itself, and is not good for the industry.


Im not sure it will die a death. Its great for the business involved - they get 3 or 4 free slaves to work for the entire season. Thats 3 or 4 salaries they dont have to pay out on. There are no shortage of people who are prepared to work like that in a foreign country for a few months with no pay so no shortage of new DMTs to do that job.

[CoralSeaMan]

Being a DM had a huge effect on my skills. It wasn't the training; it was the amount of time I spent in the water. Pools and ponds may not be exciting but it is lots of diving. Yes I hauled lots of gear. I still do. But I have a lot better skills than I did before I started. Of course, I cannot fix a dive boat yet.

[AndyNZ]

I know, I know..... I'm an optimistic idealist. :cool2:

[JayJudge]

The dive mule will die the same death as the poorly paid musician- long, drawn out, and eternal...there will always be someone willing to 'lend a hand', thinking that it will endear them to the shop, or it gives me free- exposure, dives, publicity, a chance for more diving, you name it. I really don't care that I lumped the gear, or I have to clean the head after a good day at sea. For me, yep, I get a lot of dives I wouldn't normally, doing things most people will never do. I have played council, hero, and scrubber in the same day. I have been sent to rescue an unconcious diver from another boat (directly after we pulled one of our own back to the line, so the adreniline was high) only to get close enough that the bird took off, lol. I love my experiences and group more than anything, its just awesome. But, I have seen people get into it, realize it is not for them, and not understand they can quit the program. My wife is also a DM, she loves taking newer divers around. She likes doing the discover local off the boat. She looks at me like I am psycho when I plunge to the seabed anchor in hand, or go grab someone that has missed the lines. One of my best friends only DMs for instructors. He absolutely loves the kids camp, and helping the adults the rest of the year. So, if you can find the nich, you will never be happier. If you don't want to do blank, figure out a way around it. Just my 2 psi
-J

[mmelkus@nc.rr.com]

The hole nut in a shell here is if you have no intention of teaching then there no need to become a DM. The money you spend for the course would be better spenden taking specialtys courses that interest you.

[JayJudge]

Actually, if you want to work on a boat, you need to be a certified, insured DM. At least the ones I have been around. But, if you just want to dive, get better at it, etc, take a tech course that covers self reliance.
-J

[halocline]

Still, to me it is worth it, but, as it states you are 55, you might think about not working on a boat. That is not to be mean, as one of the best DMs I have know was 64. What it is though, is people's safe return to the boat on a bad day (pretty, flat, clear days rarely have that type of problem) may be dependent on your swimming 400 yds or more to catch a panicked diver, then helping to pull them back aboard to help with O2 or CPR or anything else. That can cause a lot of strain.

I recently did my DM along with several other candidates who were in their late teens and mid 20s. I'm in my late 40s. I beat almost all of them at the 400 yd swim, some by more than 5 minutes, and all of them in the tired diver tow. What do you think, someone who's 55 is going to be too weak to be a DM? That's a good one.

[JayJudge]

Well, it doesn't have to do with the age as much as the average person at 55. Most people in the US are very out of shape by that point. Period. To say otherwise is to lie. It also doesn't dawn on everyone that aside from boat operations, your job as a divemaster is to be a rescue swimmer, too. The best DM I have ever known- Roy Cowan- died of a heart attack after getting a diver back to the line. Those of us that knew Roy will tell you he never lost a diver. He had been a DM on boats for 20 years or so, VA beach, Morehead, you name it. He was not new to this, not new to rescuing divers. The older we get, the more of a pounding our bodies have taken over the years. And that is very impressive that you beat all those people. I was not meaning to insult anyone, just to lay the facts out there. I've never chased after a guest on a flat, no current day. 6 ft seas, ripping surface current, thats when I get to go for an extra swim. Or 2. The original poster was asking about being a DM, and employment ops after. If you had read my post fully, I mentioned another DM I know, Wells, who is 64. Honestly, I would send him off a boat before anyone else, including myself. He looks like a torpedo in the water. But, think about it- how many 64 year olds are like that. The original posters profile says he is 55. I don't know what type of shape he is in, but, I think it prudent to forewarn him that for a working DM on a boat, swimming is paramount. Any other boat DMs think differently?
By the way, what is the guitar in the pic- I have a Rameriz 1a (1997)
-J

[halocline]

My post was more tongue in cheek, I know you didn't mean to offend anybody, even us old geezers. While physical conditioning is an important part of any profession in which you might have to rescue someone in demanding conditions, experience, judgement, attitude, training, etc are much more important. And, endurance training is probably less age dependent than you think.

The guitar is a Tom Humphrey.

[JayJudge]

Matt- I got to play one of those- lattice work inside right? So jealous....I agree on the endurance, it was just along the lines of the shop I worked for never mentioned any of the harder side of being a DM.
-J

[jviehe]

I am considering taking the DiveMaster training. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcomed. What should I expect? Is the primary focus of the DiveMaster course, the training of students? Learning new skills? Learning boat activity management? Employment? What are the employment opportunitys for a divemaster? What is the typical pay rate?

:scubahelmet:

There are plenty of previsou threads on this topic, fyi.

The primary focus of the divemaster course is turning you into a professional diver, meaning expert skills, leadership, and emergency response. Employment opportunities and pay rates vary widely, from free air to comparable wages. You could run your own trips to the bahamas, or fill tanks at a dive shop. From the course itself you will do:

a lot of academics and testing
master the basic skills
test your fitness, rescue skills, and ability to handle stress
demonstrate planning and leadership
intern with a instructor during many classes of differeing levels

Details vary and its best for you to talk to your likely instructor.

[markfm]

Ahh, well, hate to be contrary, but I enjoy being a DM :)

It really is attitude, what you expect out of it.

Concerning $, I do not look at it as a source of income, on the other hand it effectively costs me nothing, helps fund diving. Cost of the class was more than made up for on my first Key Man discount from the LDS, I'm active enough to qualify for them yearly, which means I can buy nice ($) toys at big discounts (yes, folks, better discounts than you can get out of any of the online stores). As an active DM, my in-shop daily discounts also exceed Internet pricing. I get free air, and whenever I help in open water certs I get shop credits which end up covering my gas and annual fees (insurance, DM renewals).

Skill-wise, it definitely depends on who you study under, the Instructor -- no surprise, again, as that's common for anything in life. I had to really work hard to develop demo-grade skills, which I keep practicing, multiple times per year as I help out with classes. My buoyancy control has become really rock solid, and I've learned to watch my fellow divers for signs of stress, any issues. Problem-solving skills get better when you dive pretty often with new people -- you're forced out of the natural tendency towards diving in a clique, a small circle of friends of likely roughly the same skills.

Personally, I believe working as a DM, given the Instructor I learned from and usually work for, really has made me a better (safer, more competent, better skill set) diver.

I have zero interest in becoming a full Instructor, though I'll likely do AI, for personal interest. Given this has made my diving free, skills better, and I get to participate (in my small way) is helping new people learn to do something I enjoy, it's definitely been worthwhile. If I had gone in expecting $, or somehow felt that the drudge stuff was beneath me, I would have been disillusioned quickly. Expecting only to see people learn things, it's been super.

[Lee Taylor]

.

I have zero interest in becoming a full Instructor, though I'll likely do AI, for personal interest. Given this has made my diving free, skills better, and I get to participate (in my small way) is helping new people learn to do something I enjoy, it's definitely been worthwhile.

Why zero interest in becoming an Instructor?

[Lee Taylor]

Im not sure it will die a death. Its great for the business involved - they get 3 or 4 free slaves to work for the entire season.

I agree. The thing that seems to be twisted about it is that I do not remember seeing any of my school teachers (professionals) in the restrooms cleaning the toilets or mopping floors. The tasks must be done, this is a given, but I don't feel the dive store owners have things structured properly. I personally think specialized teaching tasks (such as diving) should be separate from basic maintenance tasks. If I own a scuba operation in the future I will separate the tasks. Until then I will shake my head. :shakehead:

[tylerinflorida]

At my LDS, I get paid an hourly salary, whenever I go out on the boat as a DM, i get $100 plus tips. I get side jobs through the LDS that pay well. I get a good discount on gear that comes with the factory warranty, unlike LeisurePro. ( I would rather pay a little more and get the FACTORY discount, not a LP discount.) I dive almost every day. Do I work hard? Yes. But I have always worked hard and will do so in any profession I choose. Why do I do it? I love diving. I love the fact that there is no "ice to break" when you meet other divers. I love to see new people get into diving. I love a hard days work. I love being "in the loop" of the good spots to go check out. I happily fill tanks and lug gear. I thank God for my dive job. I thank God for my health. I thank God for safe and fun dives.

[robertarak]

I LOVE being a DM, and I have no desire to be an instructor.
I have a real job away from diving and I dive for fun. DMing is fun.
OK, my dive shop is just awesome. The instrctors are among the best around, so that is a giant plus for me, just being able to work with them. I don't haul tanks or any of the other horror stories that are floating about. I work as a professional with professionals. The instructors I work with do a great job of setting up classes, fitting equipment, doing the classroom instruction, etc. All I really do is show up at the pool and then Catalina Island and assist the instuctor, help students with gear, heard the kittens, etc. The best part is I get to watch and help students become divers. I really have no desire to work as an instructor, but I am very happy being a DM.

[Wet Zen]

I became a DM so I could get more jobs captaining dive boats. The reason is insurance. A captain / DM covers the divers in the water with his professional liability insurance. It also allows the dive operation to use a non DM to serve as deckhand in a pinch. USCG regs require a second crew member on most commercial boats. I've worked for a lot of dive operators in the Keys and never see a trip where neither the captain nor the deckhand had a DM cert. Somebody has got to be a DM. Most times it's both.

[Capt Scotty]

To the OP. If you want to become a DM to help people and develop your skills. Go for it, have fun and walk proud.

Scotty
NAUI Divemaster # 49139

[ScubaSteve2000]

I've been kicking this around for a while. I just finished my Rescue class and am wondering if I want to do DM or Fundies. I've heard that my LDS pays pretty well. I know several "free agent" type of instructors not affiliated with any LDS. Do dive shops hire DMs they didn't "grow" from students? Then there is the insurance thing. If I hook myself to a dive shop they may have some kind of umbrella policy that covers employees. If I stay unaffiliated I will have to carry my own and keep it up until Jesus comes or risk being unprotected from lawsuits.

I'm also worried that being a DM for a dive shop will cut into my diving. Well, fun diving anyway. Then again, none of this is a concern if I go the Fundies route but I don't think there are any Fundies instructors in my area.

Now my head hurts from spinning all this stuff around. I think I'll go diving now.

[boulderjohn]

I agree. The thing that seems to be twisted about it is that I do not remember seeing any of my school teachers (professionals) in the restrooms cleaning the toilets or mopping floors.

It still happens in the professional ranks, but it is a bit more subtle, and it is just as wrong.

In teaching, the new teacher is assigned to the classes that none of the veteran teachers in the department want to teach. IMO, that is the primary reason that 9th grade in the U.S. has such high failure rates--that is where most of the most inexperienced teachers are slotted, and they don't have the skill to deal with the problems of students of that age. That is, also IMO, the reason so many young teachers quit after only a few years in the profession. When I was a department chair, I made sure that did not happen, but that is not the norm, believe me.

I have several relatives and friends who are nurses. One graduated at the very top of her class and was immediately hired by a hospital where she was ground into submission by the same process. The veterans got the cake assignments while she was nearly killed by her schedule. She quit and happily took a much lower-paying job in a private office. In contrast, another of my relatives was employed by a hospital with a humane policy that made for a happy employee who wanted to excel in her work.

When highly motivated people (teachers, nurses, and DMs) feel that they are being exploited, their motivation is destroyed. They work with less care and enthusiasm, and they look for a way out. An unthinking operator will exploit DMs because--well, that's the way it happened to them, I guess. A wise OP will carefully nurture DMs so that they will provide customers with excellent service and, hopefully, go on to be caring and skilled instuctors.

[RiverRat]

I have no regrets becoming a DM. I did it for several reasons. I researched it and decided to go for it. Granted I'm in a land locked area so the business model is a bit different than Asia or some other place. But I never felt I was being exploited, abused or whatever. Sure there is like ZERO money in it here in CT but that's not why I did it. Heck even the Instructors around here, the OW ones anyway barely break even and for most it's a hobby/passion. I always aproach it that I'm part of the "team" to get the job done. Sure some days, with big classes mostly, it was more grunt work. But it's worth it to me to help divers out. Plus I get to dive more in between real dives. I enjoyed the physics and physiology parts of it and the mapping project was pretty cool. It's a great confidence builder too when you nail it and other divers start to look up to you.
Now that I'm geting into tech diving I'm moving on to other things but it was well worth it for me. If you approach it with the right attitude you can get a lot out of it even if you don't want to go on to instruct. Of course it depends on who you take it with I suppose.

[caseybird]

Because it's challenging and fun?

[RaginCajun]

Question about professional DM liability insurance; is this often picked up by the shop or is it the individual's responsibility? I heard that if you ever DM professionally that you should keep your insurance for several years after your last DM gig to avoid any potential lawsuits. Is this true and if so how long should you stay insured?

Also, I'm not sure if it was brought up yet, but in PADI there is a Dive Master Certification and a Master Scuba Diver Certification with the primary difference being the focus on the "economics" of diving in the DM course. So Master Scuba diver seems like an option for someone who wants the skills but does not have a professional desire to serve as a DM.

[CoralSeaMan]

Some shops provide insurance, others make it available at a group rate. I presume some places do neither and you have to buy your own. My instinct would be that one would want insurance for some time after "retiring" but I cannot suggest an actual time.

The PADI Master Diver program is a diving rating. One has to complete AOW, Rescue and 5 specialties. The DiveMaster (DM) is a professional rating. DM training focuses on assisting students in the OW and other classes. They are not directly related.

[LowVizWiz]

Also, I'm not sure if it was brought up yet, but in PADI there is a Dive Master Certification and a Master Scuba Diver Certification with the primary difference being the focus on the "economics" of diving in the DM course. So Master Scuba diver seems like an option for someone who wants the skills but does not have a professional desire to serve as a DM.

The only similarity between the two courses is in the name and it often leads to confusion. The Master Diver "course" for lack of a better term teaches you nothing about dive leadership or dive supervision and it's not intended to do so, while the primary focus of the Divemaster program is just that!

The Master Diver is basically a PADI recognition after you complete Rescue and 5 specialties of your choosing. It's not a class or certification per se.

Wiz

[Lee Taylor]

[QUOTE=boulderjohn;3835466]It still happens in the professional ranks, but it is a bit more subtle, and it is just as wrong.

QUOTE]

Thank you John for your insight and information. I don't just accept things as being correct at my current phase in life.

[Lee Taylor]

I've heard that my LDS pays pretty well.


They may pay well compared to others but how much is enough. Food, shelter, and gasoline are averaging 1500 per month in some parts of the USA. If you worked 20 days per month as a Dive Master my suspicion is your net pay would be about 1500 if you were lucky. Notice that I did not mention a handful of other monthly expenses a person typically has.

[GrandpaScuba]

I am considering taking the DiveMaster training. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcomed. What should I expect? Is the primary focus of the DiveMaster course, the training of students? Learning new skills? Learning boat activity management? Employment? What are the employment opportunitys for a divemaster? What is the typical pay rate?
Divemaster is a professional rating. As a non-pro, you dive for your own enjoyment. As a pro, you now dive for other people's enjoyment.

Unfortunately, most DM's are "volunteers" or work for tips. Except for some busy charter businesses, then you might get paid a small wage + tips. Or if you work the retail floor. Then you'll probably get minimum wage for your time on the floor.

The primary focus of the Divemaster "job" is to ride herd on divers. Either as a tour guide on charter boats or helping an instructor keep track of a group of students.

In SSI the "DM" rating is called a Dive Control Specialist (Divecon) and is also an Assistant Instructor rating. SSI divecons are allowed to teach certain courses and specialties. (I don't know about the other agencies DM's.) Which does allow them to make some extra money. Many of our Divecons make money on the side teaching the Scuba Skills Update (commonly called a "Refresher Course".) They are also allowed to teach certain specialties and issue specialty certs for non-scuba specialties like "Fish ID", "Underwater Photography", etc.

Despite the somewhat vague income opportunities for DM's. You will still have to purchase Professional Liability Insurance and pay yearly dues to the agency. As well as keep your CPR, First Aid and O2 Provider certifications up to date.

For most agencies, though, a DM rating is a required prerequisite for taking the Instructor course.

I haven't read through all the other posts. You probably will get other/better information from some of the others.

[ScubaSteve2000]

They may pay well compared to others but how much is enough. Food, shelter, and gasoline are averaging 1500 per month in some parts of the USA. If you worked 20 days per month as a Dive Master my suspicion is your net pay would be about 1500 if you were lucky. Notice that I did not mention a handful of other monthly expenses a person typically has.

Well, I certainly wouldn't quit my "day job" to be a DM. I'd be happy to make enough to pay for the insurance, gas and the occasional pizza.:D

Steve.

[markfm]

Why zero interest in becoming an Instructor?
Locally we're fairly saturated with instructors, and I actually enjoy the DM role. I like lending a hand, working the logistics, chatting with the students, simply a good fit.

In Upstate New York there's no way to do this full-time, whether Instructor or DM -- it's an avocation. The weather makes for a relatively short dive season for the majority of people.

[tedtim]

...Still, to me it is worth it, but, as it states you are 55, you might think about not working on a boat. That is not to be mean, as one of the best DMs I have know was 64. What it is though, is people's safe return to the boat on a bad day (pretty, flat, clear days rarely have that type of problem) may be dependent on your swimming 400 yds or more to catch a panicked diver, then helping to pull them back aboard to help with O2 or CPR or anything else. That can cause a lot of strain.


I recently did my DM along with several other candidates who were in their late teens and mid 20s. I'm in my late 40s. I beat almost all of them at the 400 yd swim, some by more than 5 minutes, and all of them in the tired diver tow. What do you think, someone who's 55 is going to be too weak to be a DM? That's a good one.
I second mattboy.

I did the DM course in my mid 40's. Last year, when I was 49 I had to do the 400 yd swim to catch the panicked diver who was drifting down the river and approaching the shipping channel. This year, now 50, I spent one month on a small island as a DM. I was amazed at how little the younger folk (early to mid 20's) knew about equipment and practical application of skills. There are good DMs and not so good ones. The level of their ability is not linked to their age.

Don't let anyone tell you that age should be a determinant in your choice. If you are looking for a single reason to help you make the decision, I submit that the reasons are as varied as the people who take the training.