NAUI Nonsense

[sambolino44]

I have a NAUI cert card that says "Advanced SCUBA Diver" on the front. All these years I thought that was my level of certification. Now just the other day I was going through my old NAUI training log, and I see that there is another level. I just checked the NAUI website, and now I'm more confused than ever.

I went to my local dive shop to get certified so I could dive. I took the basic course, got certified and now I could dive; but I had no buddies. The internet was not really going yet as it is now, I was not in a club, and it was very hard to hook up with other divers so I took the next course in the progression, and got the card I have now.

So now I find out that the progression in my old training log is: Open Water I Scuba Diver, Open Water II Scuba Diver, Advanced Scuba Diver. I only took 2 courses, and the Advanced Scuba Diver section of my training log is empty, so I guess I took only OW I and OW II. So why did they give me an Advanced card?

On the NAUI website, the training progression chart is so confusing it's ridiculous. It loops back around in on itself, it has something called "Skin Diver" (what the heck is that?), it makes it look like you can take specialty courses before you get your basic certification... I mean it's just crazy! And it doesn't have I and II any more.

So what's the deal? Why can't they just have a simple progression from beginner to advanced?

And another thing: why can't they just give you a number like every other agency? I don't know how many times people have asked me for my certification number and I have to give them this explanation that, yes, I am certified but no, I don't have a number because they don't give you one. There have even been a few times when the person almost didn't let me on the boat because they never heard of such nonsense. They never heard of someone being certified who didn't have a number from their agency.

[mikediveguy]

the old owII level is the 'new' advanced [ to be on par with the other agencies. the old advanced in your log book was equvilent to the advanced plus padi had for awhile.

your diver # is your social security #, used to identify you to naui, but for 'security' [yours] reasons not listed on your card.

skin diver is snorkeler lol

[sambolino44]

Thanks. I never did understand the logic of using the SSN, especially if the reason was security. I remember back when it said right on your Social Security card, "Not to be used for identification." So if somebody asks me for my certification number I'm supposed to give them my SSN. Right. That's security.
Happy Birthday!

[John_B]

your diver # is your social security #, used to identify you to naui, but for 'security' [yours] reasons not listed on your card.
No company or organization should ever use an SSN as an identifier. Ever.

It is so easy to generate a number in the backend database to be used in place of an SSN, and the exposure is so large to identity theft, that there is simply no excuse for this to happen in this day and age. If NAUI is still doing this, they should stop it immediately. Tomorrow morning wouldn't be too soon to begin working on it.

:hijack:

[shoredivr]

No company or organization should ever use an SSN as an identifier. Ever.

It is so easy to generate a number in the backend database to be used in place of an SSN, and the exposure is so large to identity theft, that there is simply no excuse for this to happen in this day and age. If NAUI is still doing this, they should stop it immediately. Tomorrow morning wouldn't be too soon to begin working on it.

:hijack:

Wow, John B, you're on a roll tonight....agreeing with your posts all over the place ;)

[NudeDiver]

Wow - guess I'm glad I didn't sign up with NAUI. No WAY would I give diving people my SSN.

[japan-diver]

Ok lets get a few facts into the dscussion.

Many years ago NAUI training chart looked like this:
Open Water I (five training dives, cert to 60 ft)
Open Water II (6 dives including night, deep and nav plus 3 more)
Advanced ( 8 dives and lots of physics, physiology, equipment theory etc...)
Master (More theory and swim tests and skill evals..)
Rescue Diver could be taken any time after OW I

You then moved on to the pro level.

A few years back they simplified the chart to this:
Scuba Diver (5 dives , cert to 60ft)
Advanced Scuba Diver (6 dives night, deep, nav + 3 more)
Master Scuba Diver (minimum of 8 dives lots of physics, physiology, equipment theory, dive skill evaluations etc..)
Rescue Diver taken any time after SD.
You then go on to AI or DM. A very simple system.

I just looked at the training progression chart on the NAUI web page and its seems to go in a staright line to me SD- ASD-MSD, yes they do have a skin diving cert class- as most agencies do and there are specialities that can be taught to skin divers- including fish ID, photography etc... so yes you can take a speciality w/o being scuba certified.

Now when NAUI was founded (1959)there was no worry about identity theft and they used your SSN for your diver number - this is no longer the case and NAUI stopped using your SSN as your dive number at least 10 years ago. If you really want to give the guy on the boat your cert number - if he is that much of a moron he needs a number to prove you are certified make on up- when I was teaching years ago and people did not have a SSN we just used their birthdate mmddyyyy and then added the month of the class. So your diver cert number would be mmddyyyymm with the last month being the month of your certification class. Now you can please the moron on the boat asking for a cert number since your card wasn't good enough.

[nwhitney2003]

I was certified through NAUI June of this year and they did not ask for my SSN. The only number on my card is my instructors cert. #. Has anyone asked NAUI why no cert. numbers? If not then I will.

[KarolinaKid]

Master Scuba Diver (minimum of 8 dives lots of physics, physiology, equipment theory, dive skill evaluations etc..)

So, with NAUI you can become a Master Scuba Diver with only 8 dives?

Surely they expect more experience than that?

[ScubaSteve001]

Certification levels aside, I know that I have NEVER been questioned on it when I gave my diver # 37619 ( I think that is the standard NAUI number if I recall correctly) with my NAUI Advanced Opern Water card in hand. If I am ever questioned, I will hand the card over to them and tell them to take it up with NAUI, not me.

And FYI, I did the NAUI AOW three years ago and it WAS 5 dives (deep, Nav, S&R, PPB and night) with additional physics and physiology but it was not what is called out for in previous posts for "Advanced Diver".

[Scott M]

I believe the number on the Naui cards will be your instructors number, at least mine is and that is all I have ever needed or asked for. YMMV

[ScubaSteve001]

I believe the number on the Naui cards will be your instructors number, at least mine is and that is all I have ever needed or asked for. YMMV


That would make it just as stupid a system as before however I can say that I learned something today. In my opinion, NAUI has painted them so far into a corner with this process that they have no chance of an easy recovery if they ever wanted to (not to say they would as I have never had a problem so I am OK with it as is (even if I disagree with the logic)). Logistically, to re-issue every card for every certified diver for every certification level would be very difficult and costly as well as riddled with errors I am sure. I knew it was not my number because my dive buddy has the same number on his card (obviously same instructor). I was not aware it was my instructors number.

Thanks

[Cheekymonkey]

So, with NAUI you can become a Master Scuba Diver with only 8 dives?

Surely they expect more experience than that?


I think he means 8 dives during that course. If i'm not mistaken there is a seperate dive requirement for enrolling in the master dive course.

[ronbeau]

I think he means 8 dives during that course. If I'm not mistaken there is a separate dive requirement for enrolling in the master dive course.


You are correct. Those are the 8 open water dives associated with the Master Diver course.

[Firefyter]

As far as the cert number, just fill in the blank with "NAUI". It works everytime.

[Walter]

I have a NAUI cert card that says "Advanced SCUBA Diver" on the front. All these years I thought that was my level of certification.

It is.

Now just the other day I was going through my old NAUI training log, and I see that there is another level. I just checked the NAUI website, and now I'm more confused than ever.

No need to be confused.

I went to my local dive shop to get certified so I could dive. I took the basic course, got certified and now I could dive; but I had no buddies. The internet was not really going yet as it is now, I was not in a club, and it was very hard to hook up with other divers so I took the next course in the progression, and got the card I have now.

I fail to see a problem.

So now I find out that the progression in my old training log is: Open Water I Scuba Diver, Open Water II Scuba Diver, Advanced Scuba Diver. I only took 2 courses, and the Advanced Scuba Diver section of my training log is empty, so I guess I took only OW I and OW II. So why did they give me an Advanced card?

Perhaps because your instructor taught you both the OW II and Advance in one class.

On the NAUI website, the training progression chart is so confusing it's ridiculous. It loops back around in on itself, it has something called "Skin Diver" (what the heck is that?), it makes it look like you can take specialty courses before you get your basic certification... I mean it's just crazy! And it doesn't have I and II any more.

Looks pretty straight forward to me, although I do agree with you about the line to Specialty classes between Skin & SCUBA Divers.

So what's the deal? Why can't they just have a simple progression from beginner to advanced?

They do.

And another thing: why can't they just give you a number like every other agency? I don't know how many times people have asked me for my certification number and I have to give them this explanation that, yes, I am certified but no, I don't have a number because they don't give you one. There have even been a few times when the person almost didn't let me on the boat because they never heard of such nonsense. They never heard of someone being certified who didn't have a number from their agency.

Every other agency doesn't assign numbers. Numbers are really quite useless to you as a diver. There's no reason for operators to ask for certification numbers. Sounds like nonsense alright, nonsense on the part of the jerk you gave you a problem over a number.

[sambolino44]

OK, thanks to all of you for your information. I've calmed down a bit now, and it does seem to make a little bit more sense. I would like to continue my diving education, and I would prefer to go NAUI, but most of the shops around here are SSI; that's what I did for my refresher 2 yrs ago and my drysuit course about a year ago. Classes aren't in the budget for me in the near future, so I have plenty of time to shop around for an instructor.

[Louma]

Walter is absolutely right, as usual. Why do you need a number on a certification card? To identify you? To whom? Has anyone ever had their number verified with any agency prior to boarding a boat? In the past, I’ve gone through this argument with a shop clerk prior to getting on a boat. I would usually just make up a number like 12345 (by the way, this number was never questioned nor obviously checked) as long as the required blank on the form was filled in they were happy. Since we’re at it – how about addressing NAUI not requiring a picture on their cert cards as well. For those agencies that require a picture on their “C” cards - you want to know how many 50 year olds I’ve seen with their prom picture on their cards - puffed up hair and blue tux no less! Or you can pay them a few extra dollars to update your card.

[rstofer]

I'm looking at my NAUI OWI, OWII, Advanced Diver and Diving Rescue Techniques cards from1988. Each of the cards has an embossed registration number, all are different and none have anything to do with my SSN. There is also an embossed date and instructor number and my name is embossed as well - sort of like a credit card.

Last month I realized that NAUI had realigned the course and card requirements so I applied for MSD based on the conversion of Advanced Diver (strictly an ego trip, who really cares?). As a result, I have another card which has a CERT # partially created by mangling my name and ending in MSD88 - Master Scuba Diver 1988. It has my instructor's name and number. This card is not embossed - it is the ultimate in 'cheap'.

My new PADI Nitrox card has my picture and a Diver No. which is nothing more than a mangled date and appended number. I don't have any other PADI cards for comparison.

My SSI Altitude Specialty Diver also has an identification number. Nothing embossed and no picture, just a simple laminated card.

I wouldn't know anything about the more general case of c-cards but all of these carry some kind of number: NAUI, PADI and SSI.

Other than my name and photo (PADI), there is no personally identifying information on any of these cards. I suspect if anyone was concerned they could check my driver's license or passport to verify my name against the c-card. My LDS does have the info in their database and they won't sell air fills or certain equipment without it.

Richard

[Captain12Pk]

Walter is absolutely right, as usual. Why do you need a number on a certification card? To identify you? To whom? Has anyone ever had their number verified with any agency prior to boarding a boat? In the past, I’ve gone through this argument with a shop clerk prior to getting on a boat. I would usually just make up a number like 12345 (by the way, this number was never questioned nor obviously checked) as long as the required blank on the form was filled in they were happy. Since we’re at it – how about addressing NAUI not requiring a picture on their cert cards as well. For those agencies that require a picture on their “C” cards - you want to know how many 50 year olds I’ve seen with their prom picture on their cards - puffed up hair and blue tux no less! Or you can pay them a few extra dollars to update your card.

Thank you. I was hoping someone would bring up the obvious.

[tanslacks]

I had to call NAUI last week. I was filling in an application for my daughter and it wanted her Cert #. The woman at NAUI said the do not use numbers but their data base assigns it like this..

example:

William Smith DOB 1-2-65

His Cert would be "smit010265wil"

I asked if she was kidding and she insisited that she was not!

[Daveo957]

Ive never been asked by cert # and I have dove in many diff. places. If you have your card there is no issues. I wouldnt worry about the whole cert # deal

Youll get one if you ever take any leadership courses. divemaster and instructor