OW Cert question, PADI related

[Sinbad the Diver]

Is it normal for Certification Agencies, in this case PADI, to have instructors certify divers without an affiliation to an LDS. A friend is being offered a discounted class as part of a group of people from a club. It is more or less freelancing from what I see. Seems logical, I've just never heard of an instructor that worked without a shop (my exposure is fairly limited so it's very possible it's just not something I've ever heard of).

TIA

[MikeHunt]

My instructor works for a shop, but taught me freelance. I think it matters how the students came to him, ie. if they walk into the shop or if they are reffered by friends directly to him.

[acwest]

There are a lot of instructors that work independently. In the case of my instructor(s), we have an entire scuba club whose primary focus is dive instruction, with no shop affiliation. This used to be a lot more usual, and I believe is still the basis of the BSAC system in England.
On the other hand, SSI only does shop-based instruction...

[Sinbad the Diver]

the financial aspects of it are confounding me in this case as well. The instructor is quoting a one price including gear and quarry passe. The price is great and I did a quick add of the numbers as I know them and the money is mostly gone per student after gear rental, tank rental, and quarry passes. Pool rental, books, anything for the instructor..... I figure a shop can do it because they have no specific cost for gear and air, they use out of the same stock they have for normal rental and unless they run out some weekend and have to turn a renter away it's not a real cost.

More of a statement, not a question. Something I've let my friend know to be watchful of. It's someone the group knows so I don't see this as a scam, most likely just a person doing a favor for friends, unfortunately I have become jaded and always looking for people with alterier motives.

[NudeDiver]

Not everyone does everything for just the money.

[Walter]

The best classes are usually found away from shops. I encourage the practice.

[oly5050user]

the financial aspects of it are confounding me in this case as well. The instructor is quoting a one price including gear and quarry passe. The price is great and I did a quick add of the numbers as I know them and the money is mostly gone per student after gear rental, tank rental, and quarry passes. Pool rental, books, anything for the instructor..... I figure a shop can do it because they have no specific cost for gear and air, they use out of the same stock they have for normal rental and unless they run out some weekend and have to turn a renter away it's not a real cost.

More of a statement, not a question. Something I've let my friend know to be watchful of. It's someone the group knows so I don't see this as a scam, most likely just a person doing a favor for friends, unfortunately I have become jaded and always looking for people with alterier motives.

If you feel that the class is well done and believe that the instructor made no m oney on it I hope you offer him a fat tip..

[scubajcf]

PADI does not require its instructors to be affiliated with a shop. Some agencies, like SSI, require the affiliation.

I am an independent instructor. My prices may be a bit higher, but competitive. I do this because I require more from my students than most dive shops do and I have lower student to instructor ratios. It would be biased to say I deliver more value to the learning process as an independent instructor (lower class ratios, more student/instructor time, more skill development, higher standards / less 'sales pitch'), however it would also probably be accurate. :D

Do you due diligence. Compare the agenda/itinerary, total costs, time, and value before making any assessments. Remember, the agencies are nothing more than a tool the instructor employs. Shops are in business to sell equipment. Instructors are there to teach. Find the best instructor and you will get the best class. Everything else in ancillary.

jcf

[Sinbad the Diver]

Thanks everyone for the info, sounds like the guy is on the up and up, just trying to help a friend make sure she doesn't get taken.

Not everyone does everything for just the money.

True, but in the end, people are rarely going to pay out of pocket to provide a service to others so my concern for my friend is that the price includes safe and reliable equipment and everything that is promissed. I would hate to see her get half way through and be told she has to come up with a chunk of cash she's not expecting.

[Walter]

PADI does not require its instructors to be affiliated with a shop. Some agencies, like SSI, require the affiliation.

True, but a tad misleading. Very few agencies require shop affiliation, most allow independents and some (not PADI) even encourage them by giving them the same deals on products they give to shops.

[TraceMalin]

I'm both an independent instructor and I work for a dive center. As an independent, I'm free to voice my opinion about equipment and give my students the best advice I can regarding purchases. When working at the shop, I don't really care if I get fired and they know that so I voice my opinion anyway because my objective is to gain the trust of my students and the trust of the customers in hopes of creating a long term relationship and have students and customers also become friends and dive buddies. When I run classes in the shop's time frame, I do my best to get the students through the course to meet or hopefully exceed standards, but if they don't I don't pass them and I set up private training days to meet the goals of my courses. Not every dive instructor working for a shop will find himself or herself with the freedom or apathy toward getting fired that will allow for recommending other product lines or other dive centers for equipment purchases or classes. Truth be known, dive stores are some of the worst places to seek instuction unless the dive center is more committed to education than sales. They exist, but they aren't the norm. If you have concerns about an instructor whether that instructor is independent or affiliated with a shop, ask to see a resume and talk to the instructor about his or her experience and teaching methods and philosophies. ScubaBoard and other message boards are places you can ask opinions about individuals and you can have information PMed to you rather than a public discussion. Independent instructors often put more time, more energy and more heart and soul into teaching. This is because many independents are not full-time, but teach out of love for the sport and believe that they can make a difference by giving divers a better education than can be found elsewhere, or if they know where that better education exists, they want your trust and admiration so they'll send you to instructors who may teach distinctive specialties in which you have an interest or even technical training. They are free to refer to the best people they trust outside the pressure of a dive center and free to give you their opinions. This isn't true of all independents. Some sell gear and want to unload product or retain students the same as a dive center, but the norm is that an independent will have more time to give you and won't be trying to sell you equipment, but simply teach you the best diving they can.