Scary instructor

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Ken abucs

Contributor
Messages
490
Reaction score
2
Location
North of Boston
# of dives
200 - 499
My buddy and I were staring into a cove, realizing that no one would be diving here today. Too much wind and waves to have a relaxing dive. The boat dive we had planned for the day had already been canceled, and we were trying to salvage a Friday off with a shore dive.

We walked over to another pair of would-be divers to discuss this situation. In conversation we found out that this was supposed to be their first open water dives. About this time their instructor wanders over, and we reviewed the situation with him. He asks us if we ever dove this other wreck that's in the area that's at 200fsw. We tell him we're just recreational divers.

He proceeds to tell us this dive can be done on Nitrox. We question him to make sure we heard him correctly. He then tells us that although he's not certified to teach recreational Nitrox he was a Master Diver in the Navy, and he knows what he's talking about.

I made the comment that the Navy runs much higher PPO the recreational divers just to make sure we didn't undermine him in front his students. I was really glad this clown wasn't my instructor.

I know a lot of untrained divers don't fully understand Nitrox, but I expect a lot more from an instructor, even if they don't teach Nitrox.
 
A 200fsw wreck is possible with proper training while using EAN21 or less. Not for the recreational diver I agree, but very possible. Don't let the Nitrox label keep you from thinking outside the box.

Keith
 
My buddy and I were staring into a cove, realizing that no one would be diving here today. Too much wind and waves to have a relaxing dive. The boat dive we had planned for the day had already been canceled, and we were trying to salvage a Friday off with a shore dive.

We walked over to another pair of would-be divers to discuss this situation. In conversation we found out that this was supposed to be their first open water dives. About this time their instructor wanders over, and we reviewed the situation with him. He asks us if we ever dove this other wreck that's in the area that's at 200fsw. We tell him we're just recreational divers.

He proceeds to tell us this dive can be done on Nitrox. We question him to make sure we heard him correctly. He then tells us that although he's not certified to teach recreational Nitrox he was a Master Diver in the Navy, and he knows what he's talking about.

I made the comment that the Navy runs much higher PPO the recreational divers just to make sure we didn't undermine him in front his students. I was really glad this clown wasn't my instructor.

I know a lot of untrained divers don't fully understand Nitrox, but I expect a lot more from an instructor, even if they don't teach Nitrox.

Sure hope he and his student/s survived the day.....it is amazing what you can run into from time to time with un-educated dive instructors. Sounds like you made all the right calls from the beginning of your dive day. Nitrox is a simple gas to dive and very safe so long as you follow the basic guide lines for it's intended use. Happy and safe diving!
 
Ok, I just have to point out one thing that really annoys me. When people say things like EAN 21 or less. EAN = Enriched Air Nitrox. If its 21% 02, it's not enriched, its just plain air. If its less than 21% it is definitely not enriched.
Sorry K & S, nothing personal, that just kind of set me off.

Ken - Some of those ex-navy guys have some pretty extreme ideas, maybe he was just trying to be cool in front of his students.
 
A 200fsw wreck is possible with proper training while using EAN21 or less. Not for the recreational diver I agree, but very possible. Don't let the Nitrox label keep you from thinking outside the box.

Keith

Anything is possible....well most anything. But somethings just don't make good sense....such as a dive to 200ft. on air. Not quite sure what thinking outside the box and nitrox have in common.
 
Ok, I just have to point out one thing that really annoys me. When people say things like EAN 21 or less. EAN = Enriched Air Nitrox. If its 21% 02, it's not enriched, its just plain air. If its less than 21% it is definitely not enriched.
Sorry K & S, nothing personal, that just kind of set me off.

By definition nitrox refers to any gas mixture composed of nitrogen and oxygen and a few trace gases, and this includes normal air.....we in the scuba industry thought normally associate nitrox as having a higher FO2 context than 21%.
 
I made the comment that the Navy runs much higher PPO the recreational divers just to make sure we didn't undermine him in front his students.

I would have called him on it. If he's teaching that kind of stuff to his students he needs to be undermined!

texdiveguy:
By definition nitrox refers to any gas mixture composed of nitrogen and oxygen and a few trace gases, and this includes normal air.....we in the scuba industry thought normally associate nitrox as having a higher FO2 context than 21%.

K&S referred to it as EAN21, not nitrox. The E in EAN stands for enriched. 21% is not enriched with anything.
 
K&S referred to it as EAN21, not nitrox. The E in EAN stands for enriched. 21% is not enriched with anything.

Yep....my slight booboo.....I was focused on the term 'Nitrox' .....he did in fact state EAN21 in reading back his statement. Now days we all blend EAN and nitrox into the same meaning......years ago we just referred to it as Nitrox.....Voo-Doo Gas. BOO! :D
 
Question: What is the max depth of EAN 22? The reason I ask, is it is my understanding that AIR (~21%) has a diver depth limit of ~212fsw for a hopefully properly trained tech diver (please correct if wrong), so would the 200fsw be within the limit of EAN 22?

The rest of the post below.

First of all, I am not a "tech diver" - still learning. I am working on my cavern cert now and I continue to learn and read all I can. If any of my statements are incorrect or you disagree, please feel free to correct me, as you see fit, as it can benefit or amuse the other readers. I will not take offense - just please don't attack me.

Ok, I just have to point out one thing that really annoys me. When people say things like EAN 21 or less. EAN = Enriched Air Nitrox. If its 21% 02, it's not enriched, its just plain air. If its less than 21% it is definitely not enriched.
Sorry K & S, nothing personal, that just kind of set me off.

Ken - Some of those ex-navy guys have some pretty extreme ideas, maybe he was just trying to be cool in front of his students.

I respect your opinion, but some people/instructors do refer to EAN 21 as Nitrox (right or wrong). Mostly semantics, however, if AIR contains 20.9% o2 then 21% is rounded up and therefore enriched. Additionally, if the gas mixture contains less than 20.9% o2, then the mixture would be enriched by another gas. (It's science, the rounding is not exact and while Scuba has generally accepted assumptions, not everyone agrees - especially if they are trying to stir the pot). I was only pointing out what the instructor/Navy diver could have meant and I agree he was most likely just trying to mess with the OP or act cool.

Yep....my slight booboo.....I was focused on the term 'Nitrox' .....he did in fact state EAN21 in reading back his statement. Now days we all blend EAN and nitrox into the same meaning......years ago we just referred to it as Nitrox.....Voo-Doo Gas. BOO! :D

I pretty much made the implied statement, however, just to help clarify the original post since we missed another point debating Nitrox.....

Question: What is the max depth of EAN 22? The reason I ask, is it is my understanding that AIR (~21%) has a diver depth limit of ~212fsw for a properly trained diver (please correct if wrong), so would the 200fsw be within the limit of EAN 22?

This is what I was referring with my statement of " thinking outside the box". I was NOT trying to be jerk, just trying to think and respond to the OP regarding the information he was given by the instructor/Navy diver.

Thanks,
 
I vote for scary.

Giving him the benefit of inferring a hypoxic mix as nitrox is being way too kind. While avoiding oxygen toxicity he'd be narc'd out of his gourd in all likelihood. Suggesting such a dive as generally doable on anything but trimix only serves to give good people bad ideas.

Yes, "deep air" is done but the risks are huge.

Pete
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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