no online Scubapro

[theslyfox01]

Alot of people on here seem to be big fans of Scubapro gear, how is it that when I go to US based internet online stores or places like divebooty.com and diversdiscount.com to check prices no-one has Scubapro gear stocked..? :confused: Seems odd to me..

[Scubaroo]

Scubapro doesn't allow internet sales.

http://www.scubapro.com/consumeralert/consumeralert.asp

[theslyfox01]

thats a bit odd, I sopose its good of them to try to help out the LDS stores though, without them where all in trouble I guess :) thanks for the info Scubaroo

[metridium]

If you don't mind ordering from the UK, check out SimplyScuba.com (www.simplyscuba.com). It's also a good source for Apeks.

[Arnaud]

Actually, they don't allow Internet sales in the US... They can't do that in Europe.

You can also buy from LP in the States, but you won't have SC guarantee, just LP guarantee.

[MikeFerrara]

theslyfox01 once bubbled...
thats a bit odd, I sopose its good of them to try to help out the LDS stores though, without them where all in trouble I guess :) thanks for the info Scubaroo

Their not trying to help the LDS. They don't want to lose the shops. They also want a "qualified" tech to assemble and test the equipment before it's put in your hand.

They also want pros to use and promote their equipment. If they are pushed out of the market by low online prices they will use and promote someothing else.

IMO, they should let dealers sell online. Places like LP (non-dive shop retailers) will still not meet the requirements to be a dealer. That would increase the market size for the LDS allowing them to compete in price. Of course there might be less dealers and make some other things less convenient unless other changes are made.

[Arnaud]

Mike, Europe shows how what SP and the others are doing in the States is just plain BS. Prices there are 20 to 40% lower. Most of the European LDS sell online and are authorized dealers.

If you look at UK site of SP (http://www.scubapro.co.uk/dealers.asp), you will see that there is no internet sales restriction and that they actually feature the link to all of their authorized dealers selling online. The same is true with other manufacturers.

BTW, looking at the # of SP dealers in Europe, I don't think that it has affected their sales network, just the opposite.

A French LDS I buy from when I am there was surprised when I asked them to fill out the warranty card. To them, the only requirement to take advantage of the warranty benefits was servicing the reg once a year and keeping a receipt of the servicing. Because there is no "gray market" in Europe, any SP dealer will be bound by the terms of the warranty and will not question the origin of the gear...

[Warren_L]

I bought my SP MK25 from a LDS here, and they gave me a great deal. I was eying them on LP, but buying there would mean no warranty. With the discount I got, it was only marginally more expensive.

[SquintyPete]

I am sorry, I feel the term gray market is BS, its obviously a scuba pro product made by a scubapro factory so its a legit product how can the warranty go poof and the company say..well too bad.. How can a company say we will not touch this product if it was not sold by so and so, if ever taken to court things would change...Its just manipulating the loopholes in the laws...

Rant over
:boom: :boom:

[RICHinNC]

There is no such thing as FREE ENTEPRISE in the scuba business in the US of A

[MikeFerrara]

RICHinNC once bubbled...
There is no such thing as FREE ENTEPRISE in the scuba business in the US of A

You are correct. When you open a dive shop the manufacturers, cert agencies and the insurance company tell you exactly how you are to do business. I (as an LDS owner) am not treated like a customer of the manufacturer I am treated like an employee and not a valued one at that.

[Warren_L]

If that's the way they choose to do business, I guess that's their choice. Seems that there's still a demand for their products, though.

[theslyfox01]

Hummmmmm, the scuba industry is a strange one, it always seems like its trying to screw the very people it relies on, but as far as worrying about price, in regards to what Arnaud said, I woulden't worry mate.. after seeing how much an IQ-400 computer goes for online on US based websites (US$150-170) I turned up at my LDS expecting to pay a no doubt somewhat inflated price on that, probably $US180, after all thats logical it has to be shipped here from the States I assume they dont make them here, but what price am I quoted..?

$US260

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM :upset: :upset: :upset:

When that happens I coulden't care less about being loyal to a LDS, I'll just hunt for the best deal within an hours drive of me.. mmmmmmm, ,I needed to vent over that one ;)

[dmdalton]

20 + years ago "grey market" cameras were the big deal. Large shops (predominantly in NYC) found that they could import directly from the manufacturer at much lower costs. At first it was a big deal with some shops not acknowledging what they were doing and some calling them "black market" items. Then they were termed grey market products as the only downside was their avoidance of running the products throught the authorized importer. Then the process was "mainstreamed" and the distiction was US or international warranty.

The scuba market is just a lot smaller and 20 years behind the camera market.

Dave D

[MikeFerrara]

dmdalton once bubbled...
20 + years ago "grey market" cameras were the big deal. Large shops (predominantly in NYC) found that they could import directly from the manufacturer at much lower costs. At first it was a big deal with some shops not acknowledging what they were doing and some calling them "black market" items. Then they were termed grey market products as the only downside was their avoidance of running the products throught the authorized importer. Then the process was "mainstreamed" and the distiction was US or international warranty.

The scuba market is just a lot smaller and 20 years behind the camera market.

Dave D

Many of our products do come streight from the manufacturer. Others come through a distributor. Overseas prices may just be lower and the rules may be different, I don't know. In this country though companies like LP are not buying from the manufacturer of a distributor. When you see a Zeagle reg on the net cheap it isn't comming from over seas. Zeagle is a small Florida company and to my knowledge they don't use any distributors. We get the stuff strieght from them.

[Arnaud]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Many of our products do come streight from the manufacturer. Others come through a distributor. Overseas prices may just be lower and the rules may be different, I don't know. In this country though companies like LP are not buying from the manufacturer of a distributor. When you see a Zeagle reg on the net cheap it isn't comming from over seas. Zeagle is a small Florida company and to my knowledge they don't use any distributors. We get the stuff strieght from them.

If each LDS directly and individually orders from the manufacturers, they're left with a fairly small leverage. Having a wholesaler or a buying co-op negotiating large volumes could help. I don't know about distribution in general in the States, but in Europe, that's how small businesses can remain competitive. Large chains buy directly from the manufacturers while independent businesses are usually supplied through wholesalers.

[Krisscuba]

ScuaPro sells online under the name of TUSA

[jonnythan]

Krisscuba once bubbled...
ScuaPro sells online under the name of TUSA

...

[MORPHIOUS]

Krisscuba once bubbled...
ScuaPro sells online under the name of TUSA

Is this true....Im a total NOOB to SCUBA but I do know I want Scubapro... And I also know almost everything can be bought cheaper online.

[jonnythan]

MORPHIOUS once bubbled...


Is this true....Im a total NOOB to SCUBA but I do know I want Scubapro... And I also know almost everything can be bought cheaper online.

No, it's absolutely not true at all. Tusa's line of gear is completely different from Scubapro's.

However, I would suggest you hang out on the board and read the equipment forums for a while before you settle on any one piece of gear. Chances are you'll buy something, spend some time advocating and defending your purchase, then go and realize you wish you had bought something else, put your original purchase on ebay, then go buy the thing you REALLY wnted in the first place :D

[Ari]

But try looking for Scubapro regs at www.leisurepro.com

I got my mk25+s600+s380 there.

Ari :)

[MORPHIOUS]

You are probably right but there are so many choices and you wont believe how long I can obsess over a decision like this. For once I just wanted to buy something with out spending months researching it. I havnt heard anything bad about SCUBAPRO other than high prices. Most people agree that it is one of the best brands that is widely known. It looks like the only thing that they wont warranty is a Reg bought online. They didnt mention anythiong else that I saw. I would have a hard time paying dive shop prices when I know I can do better elsewhere. I would really like to learn to dive with my own equipment rather than something borrowed or rented.

[jonnythan]

MORPHIOUS once bubbled...
You are probably right but there are so many choices and you wont believe how long I can obsess over a decision like this. For once I just wanted to buy something with out spending months researching it. I havnt heard anything bad about SCUBAPRO other than high prices. Most people agree that it is one of the best brands that is widely known. It looks like the only thing that they wont warranty is a Reg bought online. They didnt mention anythiong else that I saw. I would have a hard time paying dive shop prices when I know I can do better elsewhere. I would really like to learn to dive with my own equipment rather than something borrowed or rented.

Definitely go ahead and buy the SP reg online.

Now, BC's.... there's a more controversial subject. See the "Ranger -> ebay -> bp/wings" debate. It could happen to you! :D

[MORPHIOUS]

I think I will. I plan on learning to maintain my own equipment anyway. Unless I damage or lose my reg what else could happen to it that would cause me to use a warranty anyway. In my experiance with warranties...most things that have a good warranty will never need them or the manufacturer will find a way to weasle there way out of it anyway.

[get-wrecked]

If anyone still has quetions about why scubapro and others don't allow sales of their equiptment on the internet, then I would refer you to this link. I think it sums it up pretty well.

http://www.divebooty.com/before_you_buy.asp

The manufacturers aren't just tyring to screw people, it's a safety concern.

[Genesis]

Forgery of hardware is not the same thing as online sales.

This is the usual dive-shop rhetoric and its BS. I've purchased SP hardware online, and it had original serial numbers, came in an official, sealed SP box, and was exactly identical to the same item purchased at a LDS - but for about half the price.

This kind of lie and scare tactic is worn out.

Thanks for the note so I can avoid Divebooty - I wasn't aware they were participants in this BS game.

[awap]

Scubapro does allow internet sales. My regs bought from Diveinn even came with a SP warrenty card. It is the USA distributor that prohibits such sales. Some foreign distributors are apparently not allowed such restrictions.

[Genesis]

has a VERY dim view of anything that restrains competition.

Much more so than the US, in that while the US govenrment tends to argue with, sue, and eventually settle such things, EU countries are known for JAILING violators.

As such the "fine line of the law" games are much less common over there, because if you step over the line you're not just looking at a slap on the wrist.

[metridium]

Genesis wrote...
has a VERY dim view of anything that restrains competition.
...but oddly enough seem to dislike discounting.

[Genesis]

There is plenty of price competition in the EU. Price fixing gets them very upset over there.....

The proof of this is found in the fact that you can typically buy the products over there, pay for shipping AND duty, and STILL beat the US pricing handily.

[metridium]

Genesis wrote...
There is plenty of price competition in the EU. Price fixing gets them very upset over there..... Not what I said at all, Genesis. I don't follow EU trade law, but I do recall skimming over at least two recent articles on EU problems with discounting, including one in last week's issue of the Economist.

I'll see if I can't locate that issue and read the article closely this time.

[double125's]

I very seriously doubt tusa is made by scubapro. I owned there bc and reg and they were out right junk. I never owned a scubapro but the way people talk about them they could not be that bad. However I do believe some of there gear (tusa that is) is contracted out, especally there computers.

[mleong]

The First piece of diving gear that I bought is a Mask and Snorkel made by Tabata, Japan back in 1983. So, TUSA actually stands for Tabata USA. 6 years ago, I took my OW course and the mask and snorkel (black rubber)is still in good condition, no cracks etc. I only replace the snorkel holder. Used it for another 3 years before getting the Technisub Sphera.