TAM Dive

[extreme]

Was down at Tam last week and it seems that they are clearing out the store. Anyone know what's up?

[Butch103]

maybe Seahunter knows or MDolson knows.???......Store has been around forever......

[DivingGal]

I thought someone mentioned something at the dinner on Saturday that it was having problems.

As I was sitting near Canuckdiver, OntarioDiver and jrtonkin it must have been one of them saying it.

[Butch103]

.....and it is a great new look from the last time I checked. With a great new link to the Peterborough shop featuring our own Mike Dolson.....;)

[GTADiver]

extreme once bubbled...
Was down at Tam last week and it seems that they are clearing out the store. Anyone know what's up?
Don't be shy. If your were there why not ask them whats up? You could more than likely start a thread like this on any store. Over the winter months I am sure a few of the stores have realized that you can't eat inventory. Its an interesting topic for your first post.

[seahunter]

I talk to Mark regularly. TAM Dive is an institution in Toronto. I remember very well when it opened (long before Mark was involved) and the hard work that was put in to make it a household word in the scuba industry. Of the dozens of stores that have come and gone in the last 25 years, very few are remembered and fewer of those are remembered with fondness. Each brings it's own memories - Supreme, Argosy, Submariners, Underwater World, Canada Scuba, Penguin, The Wet Shop and so on. Long after Mark and I have gone from the scuba business, TAM Dive will be remembered for it's contribution to the growth of scuba diving in Ontario. Few if any, stores have given back so much to the divers.

I've not visited the store for some time. Nothing I say now is critical to or even necessarily applies to TAM. I can only address the concerns of any scuba retailer including myself.
It's the usual retailers dilema when they experience a slowdown in sales. You need stock to attract customers and to make money but, you must pay the rent. When you make a sale you must decide if you use that money to pay the rent or to buy more stock.
If you've made enough sales OR made enough profit on the sales (preferably both), you can re-invest some of the money into re-stocking. It's a hard decision and the wrong decision can decide the future of the store. It's particularly difficult for stores that cut prices. Discount outlets cannot survive lean times because they must have high sales volumes to produce enough profit to re-stock.
Just a few percentage points in mark-up makes very little impact on the cost to the customers but can make all the difference in the world to the survival of the store. A common mistake retailers make is to lower prices when sales are slow. At that time they need to make more money on less sales - not less on less sales! In lean times, a store must market better. Dropping prices to try to sell more is not marketing and is a sure sign of a failing business.

Divers don't always help. The discussion of the value of your LDS has been on this board and this forum before. I also shop for myself very carefully and if I have no loyalty to a store or area I'll buy a product wherever I get the best price BUT, if I frequent a particular store, if I need some service or services that store provides, if I enjoy some unique benefit at that store, if I get exceptional service or guarantees at that store, I'll buy there even if the price is a bit higher. I don't want that store to disappear. Contary to what you may have seen on this board, you cannot buy air on-line! There are many things a good LDS will do for you and other divers that are NOT available anywhere else and certainly not when it's convenient for you..

The current state of the scuba business in North America is pretty sad. The current issue of Diver Training's Retail Magazine writes that manufacturers are claiming a 13% drop in sales. Many dive stores try to exist on a 5% net return. They are 8% down right now. Canada is not quite so bad but there's no question that a store owner must work harder now to stay ahead. Some stores just can't do it and have already closed.
If all you care about is getting the last dollar out of the dive store owner, shop around the entire province, play the owners against one another, check the internet, shop in the last week of the month (rent's due) and while you're out there, check the price of a compressor. You may need one soon.
If you realize however, that the scuba store you frequent is trying to make your scuba diving better, more fun and easier and that it provides lots of things that you don't pay for and will miss, support them.

The divers of Ontario and Toronto owe a great deal to TAM Dive!

[Butch103]

..for your input.

I am not sure of the mark-up on scuba gear. I know in general the mark-up in retail is approx 100%, with an average of about 75%.

This may sound to those who are not in the know like a lot, but bear in mind we have wages, insurance, rent/taxes,heat, hydro, telephone etc to cover with these sales. And understand the insurance is more than triple your home insurance, the telephone is double for the store, rent/taxes again are at least double....and in many cases you have to purchases minumum amounts of stock from most distributers.

Retail in general is down this past year, so as Seahunter mention, and this is conjecture, perhaps Tam is doing as my wife , discounting everything to create cash flow to purchase fresh stock.....

[SubMariner]

I've not visited the store for some time. Nothing I say now is critical to or even necessarily applies to TAM. I can only address the concerns of any scuba retailer including myself

IOW, you DON'T know. :blah:

Could have saved a lot of bandwidth, eh?!

~SubMariner~

[seahunter]

Bad News!! I will apologize publicly if I'm mistaken but I've just been informed by a reliable source that TAM has closed!

Everything I said in my prior post stands! If true, we have lost another large piece of Ontario scuba history. Both the founder and the store cast a long shadow in our business and your sport.

Both are gone and I'll miss 'em!

Alec Peirce
Scuba 2000

[sparky30]

Someone left a message on the Dan's Diveshop Message Board stating that TAM dive will close by the end of April 03..
http://www.dansdiveshop.ca/message/default.asp

[mddolson]

I was advised yesterday that TAM Dive Ltd, King Street, Toronto's doors had been locked by the Sheriff's dept.

That is all I know at this time.

I do know that TAM Dive Peterborough (a separate independant operation whom I teach for) is still open for business.

Mike D

[extreme]

I found this link posted on another board.
It explains the situation in the baliff note:


http://www.dpvcanada.com/marka.jpg

[extreme]

[GTADiver]

Is this what happened with Upper Canada Scuba as well?????

[extreme]

Well it looks like Mike was up to more than selling scuba gear.

Go figure.....

[GTADiver]

Well as a diver I guess the number one rule is don't hold my breath. I guess I will never see my tanks that were in his shop or ever get the c-card Mike owes me.

[4evernarc'd]

That picture is fuzzy extreme.
Is that the fraud squad or vice?

[seahunter]

Any scuba gear left when a store shuts down is usually gone unless someone there took it away with them prior to the closing. When that happens it not often done in the customer's interest. Try to reach Susan who in my experience (she worked for me) was always trustworthy.

The 'C' card is a different matter since that involves PADI. I can't believe the three owner/operators don't want to keep their PADI status intact so it's a simple matter of reaching one of them or, failing that, PADI. I suspect that Brian Wake would be the most helpful to find since he has a big investment in his CD status.
A prior thread suggested that they may be working at a new Climbing/Diving store in Scarborough.
If you completed the course entirely, they are obligated to (read: MUST) give you a 'C' card.

[tinman]

GTADiver once bubbled...
Well as a diver I guess the number one rule is don't hold my breath. I guess I will never see my tanks that were in his shop or ever get the c-card Mike owes me.

You should be able to recover your tanks from the sherriff/receiver, provided you have proof of purchase and you don't delay: after a certain amount of time, I imagine the receiver would be allowed to liquidate the assets after public notice, etc.

The c-card should be doable too - contact the agency involved directly (NAUI, PADI, etc) and see if your paperwork was ever filed. Presumably you have already completed all the requirements. Once the smoke clears, perhaps another LDS can help you if you have details of when the course was taken and your logbook of dives, etc.

It is always sad when a business folds. A valuable resource has been lost...

[millerdun]

You can contact Mike Robertson over at Climb/Dive Toronto, located at 65 Hymus Rd. Scarborough, Ontario. Phone Number 416 751-1352. Mike has now positioned him self in a new dumpy warehouse facility. If your one of the lucky ones, You can find Mike sitting around 24/7. You need to go there because Mike has become a professional telephone call dodger.

Millerdun

[pufferfish]

TAM dive may have contributed a lot to the Ontario dive scene in the past, but certainly over the last five years things were not well at that shop. I used to live near that shop and went there on three separate occasions only to meet surly sales people, indifferent to my business, and with no stock and inflated prices.
As of three years ago I said I would never go back and did not.

Ten days ago my brother who is just getting into scuba needed some full foot fins for a southern trip and since he lives downtown he checked out four shops for fins. Two didn't have his size and he said TAM dive was so unfriendly and uninterested he would never go back. I then told him my experience with that shop.

So what makes a good shop? There are many factors and it is rare that one can find the perfect shop but there are a few shops in the GTA that are far superior than others. Here are the factors I judge a shop on.

1. Product lines and available stock on site.
I want to touch and try on my gear rather than just order it from a catalogue.

2. Price.
MSRP or 10% off is no longer acceptable pricing in GTA. With Internet and the phone divers no longer are willing to be gouged.

3. Service
All dive shops don't offer the same quality of service and some shops are much better than others. Unfortunately it took me five years to figure out who not to take gear to in the GTA.

4. Location
This is probably quite an important factor for air fills and advice but I do not go to the nearest shop to my house as the nearest shop fails in most of the other categories.

5. Friendly, Knowledgeable staff
This is where TAM dive repeatedly failed and first impressions do count. After three strikes of crouchy sales staff I voted with my feet three years ago and it appears from this thread I was not alone.

6. Quality of teaching programs
A lot of shops don't seem to realize this is very important and continue to have 'characters' teaching for their shops.

6. Web site
Certainly not a big factor but having one just says you are keeping up with what people want. Having up to date info on location, pricing, teaching programs, etc. is what most people look for in a site. Some shops have bulletin boards where one can post gear for sale or ask questions and this is a nice addition for the dive community.

It would be interesting to do a poll and see what factors people
value most. I would say pricing, location, and friendly knowledgeable staff are probably the real drivers for choosing a shop and all the other factors secondary.

[Ontario Diver]

4evernarc'd once bubbled...
That picture is fuzzy extreme.
Is that the fraud squad or vice?

The building next door caught fire and spread to that building. UCS closed down and had vacated the premises months ago.

If you are going to make allegations "extreme" at least tell the whole story.....

[KEV49]

I would have to agree with your statement O.D. lately I have noticed that this forum has degraded to slandering some while others are aloud to advertise.
Such a shame this used to be a good place to hang out but now it's just another billboard with alot of unnecessary shots!

[Butch103]

Ontario Diver once bubbled...


The building next door caught fire and spread to that building. UCS closed down and had vacated the premises months ago.

If you are going to make allegations "extreme" at least tell the whole story.....

Good call OD..I was going to say something of the same, however I didn't know the facts.......

[bigz]

Thanks for the clarification, OD. It just so happens that the traffic report on the day of the fire noted that a "Scuba shop on Wicksteed was on fire"; not hard to figure out how misinformation gets out there. Glad the shop was empty and no one was hurt.

[Butch103]

.. at TAM on the weekend past. Any truth to the rumor? And did anyone attend and any good bargains.

Not that any of us are buzzards that like to attend the latest kill to satisfy our hungers......

[mddolson]

The Toronto based TAM Dive Ltd, on King Street has declared bankruptcy.
Everything is for sale.
I have no idea how much is left.

Please note: TAM Dive Peterborough, a separately owned and operated company (for whom I teach) is still very much alive and in full operation.


Mike D

[wetman]

Does this mean my TAM dive hellfish jacket is a priceless collectors item worth thousands now?

s

[Butch103]

mddolson once bubbled...

Please note: TAM Dive Peterborough, a separately owned and operated company (for whom I teach) is still very much alive and in full operation.


Mike D

They are far enough removed and the dive community is small enough that they will not be rolled into the same blanket as TAM in TO.

TAM is still going to be missed, as any long standing business usually is. I was only in there acouple of times, but is almost like walking into the Hockey Hall of Fame. IMHO only!!!!

[Warren_L]

Yep, I was by there the other day. Completely cleaned out.