New Wing Design

[Doppler]

Anyone out there have any firm information on the rumored new wing design. I heard it's supposed to be a colaboration between some WKPP guys and Oxycheck?

dd

[nessmiller]

Doppler,
I recently placed an order with OxyCheq and, interestingly enough, this topic came up. While he did not mention who he was specifically collaborating with, he did say that they are working on both a single and a twin wing with, in my mind, pretty clever design considerations. Sounds like pictures and more details will be on his website soon.

Hope this helps,

Steve

[Doppler]

nessmiller once bubbled...
Doppler,
I recently placed an order with OxyCheq and, interestingly enough, this topic came up. While he did not mention who he was specifically collaborating with, he did say that they are working on both a single and a twin wing with, in my mind, pretty clever design considerations. Sounds like pictures and more details will be on his website soon.

Hope this helps,

Steve

Hey Steve:

Thanks very much for the note... I was beginning to think I had imagined the whole thing :) But remember mention of the twin wing too... something about a longer more streamlined body design too.

Thanks. Dive Safe

DD

[ericfine50]

Oxycheq has some cook stuff in the pipeline. Patrick is great to deal with. Can't wait to see what it looks like.

Eric

[padiscubapro]

He has several wings becomming available soon.. They wern't done in collaboration with anyone from WKPP, but they should become a popular item with DIR divers since they have the same basic design princilpals as halycon but much higher quality.. He had the single tank wing on dispay at his booth last month at BTS.

You can also get a superior light to the scout called the little johnson and spools that work well for cold water divers..

He is also the distributor for Koplin back plates and STAs along with Greenforce lights and MJe swivels adapters ect..

[DIR Tec Diver]

Lets not make assumptions about popularity with DIR divers accepting a new wing. Halcyon is here to stay, the quality is top notch, they have made improvements on their older design, and everything else is merely an attempt to copy them and make something for themselves. The more people screw around with these designs, shapes, inflators etc. the more they detract from the #1 rule. Keep it simple.

These wings will not have an impact on real DIR divers.

[Doppler]

DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
SNIPPED

These wings will not have an impact on real DIR divers.

How can you possibly say such a thing and presume that you speak for a whole body of divers that one would assume are free to make up their own minds on a subject. It would appear that you feel that any innovation can only come from one source... halcyon. I feel this is somewhat closed minded. After all, what would happen if Halcyon were bought out by OMS? LOL

[LUBOLD8431]

stay In Finland please Dir Tec Diver...

you probably are just an OWD huh???

Every time you find a post you rant about DIR. LEts face it buddy, Halcyon isnt the cream of the crop. There will be and is better equipment available. "DIR" divers use alot of different tyypes of gear... Not just Halcyon... and by the way, who are you to predict what people and consumers are goin to like??? Do you have a magic portal somewhere that will allow you to jump into the future and see what companies make it and who doesnt? This is a free market society. Did you happen to come from the old USSR, you know, Russia? Are you from a communist state? Because here in the US OF A , companies are free to make whatever they want, and market to whoever they want and try to sell whatever they want. I am sure that he will do great, and he might, just might, make better gear than Halcyon.

So take that and put in your pipe and smoke it...

I'm sure you wont "comprehend" that last part, so you can PM me and i will discern it for you...

[Scubaroo]

DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
These wings will not have an impact on real DIR divers. But for all of us DIR wannabees, they might fit nicely with the products made by DJS Technical, FredT, Oxycheq, Koplin, Canadian Extreme, Gary Hoadley, IDI, Black Art, OMS, Dive Rite and various other individuals and companies producing gear that suit DIR.

LUBOLD8431, I'm sure you could reword your post nicer... :) and remember, this is an international board, based in the USA.

[LUBOLD8431]

You know what, I could. But why bother... He doesnt understand common sense and never will. He and people like him will be the downfall of DIR and GUE. I hate people like that. I know, strong words. Deal with it. I'll probably have a couple regulators fillin up my PM box soon, tellin me how they edited my posts. Well, please dont. If you dont like what I have to say here, pull it, dont edit it. I hate regulators doin that to my posts. Thats what I have to say, and if its not important enough to stay here unaltered, then so be it.

[Dan Gibson]

Maybe, Maybe not. What do you consider to be the cream of the crop?

Don't forget to factor in customer service with the quality of the product. I have personally found both of those to be superior to other brands. Until someone shows me a better product or treats me as well as I have been by them, I will stick with them.

They can also respond to problems and make changes much quicker than most as they actually make their own wings. That's something most manufacturers don't actually do.





LUBOLD8431 once bubbled...
LEts face it buddy, Halcyon isnt the cream of the crop. There will be and is better equipment available.

[ElectricZombie]

Halcyon makes an outstanding product...I would argue that they are the best wings on the market.

However, if another company were to come out with something that was better, I would consider purchasing it.

My money goes to whomever makes the best product...Halcyon for the time being. I really don't care who makes it, I just want the best.

[boomx5]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[rogerhelmich]

Bungees:)

[LUBOLD8431]

The question isnt what company is "the cream of the crop"...
What i was trying to demonstrate is that DIR TEC DIVER has blinders on and cannot see any other company out there other than Halcyon. I for one have used Dive Rite, OMS, and Halcyon wings. I think they all have good products, and none of them are going to KILL you. I am not so narrow sighted as to say that Halcyon is the best and everyone else is crap. And, I certainly wouldnt speak for the so-called "DIR COLLECTIVE" and say that "they" or "it" would never consider any other company for their gear purchases because HALCYON is the embodiment of everything DIR and if you dont use Halcyon, you could never be a real DIR diver. I think DIR TEC DIVER has drank a little too much of the Kool-Aid that was left out in the sun and a big bug got stuck in the jug that walked through some dog poopie...

Anyways, just my rant...

[NetDoc]

JJ has incredibly intimate ties to both GUE (who train DIR divers) and Halcyon (who sells to DIR divers). I would not be surprised that the gear would have several "perceived" flaws that would make it less than ideal for DIR purposes. Or at least, that might be the party line... :tease:

[roakey]

I don't belive that folks are having a debate between an existing product and vaporware. Both sides are being ridiculous on this one...

Roak

[Divesherpa]

DIR TEC DIVER, you make me laugh. You are a funny person! Congratulations on your great sense of humor.

Next time you guys are in High Springs, take a tour of the Halcyon plant. Dell is a great guy and Halcyon did a good thing to bring him over from DIVE RITE to design their products.

Wait, let's put this together. About 16 months ago, Halcyon (ran by JJ, Panos, and the others) hired Dell (who was the designer for DIVE RITE gear) from DIVE RITE.
Now, Dell, who was the designer for Dive Rite, designs gear (wings, lights, etc...) for Halcyon.

Rather ironic, don't ya think!

The amusement of watching people with no clue of what they are talking about ramble on so blindly is almost disheartening. This sort of rambling can only come from individuals who are following bits and pieces of a story with no idea of the reality behind the scenes.

As a side note, I greatly appreciate the shorter inflator setup on the Halcyon wings. Aside from that, it's just a wing. I also appreciate Panos, Dell, and the rest of the group at Halcyon. They are doing a wonderful job. JJ and Panos have been able to revitalize the High Springs community by providing jobs to the locals. They have done such a good job of marketing that people from Finland are saying that everything else is junk. Only a Ph. D. in Philosophy could put that one together with the help of a great marketting source.

Cheers guys!!

Keep up the good work.

[scottk]

DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
Lets not make assumptions about popularity with DIR divers accepting a new wing. Halcyon is here to stay, the quality is top notch, they have made improvements on their older design, and everything else is merely an attempt to copy them and make something for themselves. The more people screw around with these designs, shapes, inflators etc. the more they detract from the #1 rule. Keep it simple.

These wings will not have an impact on real DIR divers.

That's OK. There is the whole rest of the non-GUE world to attend to and dive with. I am a DIR diver and proponent as well, but I also recognize that a diver need not be joined to GUE at the hip, nor does one have to buy Halcyon gear to be DIR, that is simply pure Hogwash. DIR is a mindset, not a gear manufacturer or training agency.

http://www.wkpp.org/articles/Gear/equip_moreimages.htm

These are DiveRite plates. GI has no GUE shingles.

Patrick Duffy and I have been collaborating on a lot of equipment *exactly* because the gear offered by Halcyon is not adequate for every application, nor have they ever produced any real innovation. Backplates, wings and all the rest have been around for many years before Carmichael smelled a buck and jumped in and decided that he could define the market. His use of the acronym DIR is marketing, no more, no less.

I worked for Carmichael for a short while (long enough to earn enough money to leave Florida), and while I was there I approached him with marketing my continuous Trimix blender. He didn’t want to deal with "nickel-rocket home compressor owners" and brushed the idea off. Since Patrick and I have installed a few, I can’t build them fast enough.

For instance, our spools have a larger bore, making them easier to use with a gloved hand. I asked for this simple modification back in 1997, and was brushed off. I built my own, other people saw them and used them, so I started making them, started selling them, and now Patrick markets them because they work as designed. Even GI bought a couple. That's evolution over stagnation and arrogance.

I asked Halcyon for a smaller and larger plate back in '97 as well, and was brushed off, not because it isn’t a good idea, or the market doesn’t exist, but because they are restrained by their manufacturing method to one single plate configuration, as they are stamped by coining dies in Taiwan. To make any changes requires new dies ($$$$). Mine are laser cut, and I can make changes and improvements to the geometry in minutes. Mine cost more than double as much to make, but our prices are lower.

Georgitsis rejected the weighted STA I designed out of hand here in Washington, and now Halcyon sells my design
(which I was paid for in full, up front), so you cant even say that there is complete cohesion in the GUE IT base.

The Little Johnson has a few subtle, but effective improvements as well, including a double o-ring seal.

EE lights had some real teething problems as well, mostly due to crap manufacturing and craftsmanship. I don’t know how many I have seen with latch mounting screws pulled out of the dead soft HDPE. HDPE is not an ideal material choice either; it is simply the least expensive plastic in that size range (it is used by the mile in underground water and gas pipes). I also fixed a good number of light slugs and Scout lights that were machined improperly and had chatter in the bottom of the o-ring groove, which is something that should have never made it past QC. On the upside, and to his credit, I called JJ and *****ed about it, and he kicked some tails and addressed the issue.

Digital Dave up in Canada makes the nicest HDPE cannister out there.

With emerging technology like NimH batteries for lights, there is no longer any need for a huge plastic canister to carry a monstrous SLA battery to run halogen lamps with. The Green Force lights that Patrick is distributing are stainless, have no latches to break or pull, and are extremely rugged. The craftsmanship is without peer.

The aluminum STA Halcyon used to sell was a boner from day one, and the major reason why I designed my weighted unit.

Patrick’s wings are designed under the same mantle, and with input from divers. The original Pioneer wings had three sets of grommets, so you could make a few dives and adjust your trim perfectly. In order to increase profits, these additional holes were eliminated, and the STA was eliminated, two small pieces of 5/8 plastic were sewn into the wing, and they pushed this as innovation. Completely eliminated the cost and customer service hassle of that POS aluminum STA, but the price went up. Marketing, no more, no less. And, my lightweight STA is an improvement to the rig, born of the inadequacy we saw in the STA-less set-up. Also, how many of you have had your Pioneer wing shrink along the spine after getting it wet and letting it dry off the rig?

Patrick’s double wing is head and shoulders above the Halcyon wing in craftsmanship and finish. Our new single wing is going to be considerably more streamlined than the Pioneer, better made, and more adjustable for perfect trim.

The difference being that we listen to other divers and address their needs, rather than snowing them with elitism and telling them what they have to dive in order to be cool.

Scott

[jonnythan]

scottk once bubbled...
Our new single wing is going to be considerably more streamlined than the Pioneer, better made, and more adjustable for perfect trim.

The difference being that we listen to other divers and address their needs, rather than snowing them with elitism and telling them what they have to dive in order to be cool.

Scott

Well, when is this wing coming out? As it is, the Pioneer is the only decent single tank wing on the market, as far as I can tell.

[Braunbehrens]

First of all, let me say that EE and Halcyon have really done a great job of getting good gear to divers. I've enjoyed all the products I've bought through EE, and I think the Halcyon and EE designs are great. I also like the fact that the products are designed with DIR in mind (for the most part). The best part about Halcyon and EE is JJ. I have contacted him on a couple of occasions and he has always been right on top of the situation.

That being said, I feel that the pioneer wing could be improved by making it the same way as the explorer, an inside bladder with a protective bag over it.

Scott, I have used your STA and I love it. It's a great product, and I hope you keep it up. However, I've also seen the Halcyon wings that have the STA built in, and that is pretty cool as well. I think both products are fine.

If you guys are making a single tank wing, what kind of bladder will it have?

Also, would someone please make a decent dive knife? 420 steel, so it doesn't rust so easy, a line cutter on the top, a screwdriver tip that is not sharp so you can run it along the suit to find the line, and serrated heavily on the cutting side. the whole thing should be 4-5 inches. The knife should be one piece of stainless, with a handle that has holes so you can thread a line through it, this prevents rust but gives a nice grip. Then come up with a soft sheath that the knife doesn't fall out of.

[Straggler Dave]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...
That being said, I feel that the pioneer wing could be improved by making it the same way as the explorer, an inside bladder with a protective bag over it.I disagree. Firstly it would be near impossible to do with the Pioneer's circular bladder, and secondly it would probably mean the wing would have to be bigger (and more expensive?).


Also, would someone please make a decent dive knife? 420 steel, so it doesn't rust so easy, a line cutter on the top, a screwdriver tip that is not sharp so you can run it along the suit to find the line, and serrated heavily on the cutting side. the whole thing should be 4-5 inches. The knife should be one piece of stainless, with a handle that has holes so you can thread a line through it, this prevents rust but gives a nice grip. Then come up with a soft sheath that the knife doesn't fall out of. I agree. Closest thing I've found is the Tusa FK-11 (http://www.tusa.com/Tusa/Catalogue/Knives/fk-11.asp).



BTW, Scott, when are we going to get a look at these new wings? They sound interesting..... :)

[Doppler]

scottk once bubbled...


That's OK. There is the whole rest of the non-GUE world to attend to and dive with. I am a DIR diver and proponent as well, but I also recognize that a diver need not be joined to GUE at the hip, nor does one have to buy Halcyon gear to be DIR, that is simply pure Hogwash. DIR is a mindset, not a gear manufacturer or training agency.

SNIPPED SEVERAL GOOD BITS

Patrick’s double wing is head and shoulders above the Halcyon wing in craftsmanship and finish. Our new single wing is going to be considerably more streamlined than the Pioneer, better made, and more adjustable for perfect trim.

The difference being that we listen to other divers and address their needs, rather than snowing them with elitism and telling them what they have to dive in order to be cool.

Scott

Scott: thanks for an excellent post... when I started this thread, I expected to get some of the mindless sheep postings from people who know nothing about running a business and nothing about product development. Very interesting to read a thoughtful posting from someone who has experience in both areas.

Thanks

[roakey]

Doppler once bubbled...

Scott: thanks for an excellent post... when I started this thread, I expected to get some of the mindless sheep postings from people who know nothing about running a business...
...and insulting potential customers IS a way to run a business? Glad you weighed in with that little gem, Doppler...

Just another datapoint as to how screwed up the whole SCUBA business community is...

Roak

[Doppler]

roakey once bubbled...

...and insulting potential customers IS a way to run a business? Glad you weighed in with that little gem, Doppler...

Just another datapoint as to how screwed up the whole SCUBA business community is...

Roak

Roak: I may be showing my ignorance here but not sure I understand what you mean about Scott insulting potential customers... or where you referring to someone else? Me maybe? Surely not.

For the record, I own a software business and though I do teach, have never regarded myself as part of the scuba industry. In part because it tends to follow the sort of ad hoc logic that baffles me -- and that apparantely pisses you off too.

My reference to "mindless sheep" was focused on posts like those from DIR TECH DIVER, who seems to advocate restricted trade and whitewash. He is not a potential customer. I can tell from the flavor of his posts that he has no interest in the sort of software products that my firm builds. That's a decision based on years of making cold calls and learning fast to seperate suspects from prospects.

In an earlier posting, you stated that this whole thread was a waste of time. I disagree. I started it to find out about a new product that interests me. I have found out about it and about the attitudes of a few of the people on this board. Worthwhile in my mind.

DD

[padiscubapro]

David_Scarlett once bubbled...
I disagree. Firstly it would be near impossible to do with the Pioneer's circular bladder, and secondly it would probably mean the wing would have to be bigger (and more expensive?).

I agree. Closest thing I've found is the Tusa FK-11 (http://www.tusa.com/Tusa/Catalogue/Knives/fk-11.asp).



BTW, Scott, when are we going to get a look at these new wings? They sound interesting..... :)

At the chicago show 2 weekends ago the halycon guys stopped by the Oxycheq booth, Patrick had the lights, spools and double tank wing on display.. They did not look happy..

[Dryglove]

padiscubapro once bubbled...


At the chicago show 2 weekends ago the halycon guys stopped by the Oxycheq booth, Patrick had the lights, spools and double tank wing on display.. They did not look happy..

Nothing like a little friendly competition huh. Halcyon makes a top notch product in my opinion but you pay the price.Maybe this will force them to lower their prices now to be more competitve. I think if the oxycheq wings are as good as they say they are and if the price is right halcyon is gonna be in for some stiff competition which is something they arent used to as they have basically owned the market except for oms recently trying to step up to the plate somewhat.

[padiscubapro]

lal7176 once bubbled...


Nothing like a little friendly competition huh. Halcyon makes a top notch product in my opinion but you pay the price.Maybe this will force them to lower their prices now to be more competitve. I think if the oxycheq wings are as good as they say they are and if the price is right halcyon is gonna be in for some stiff competition which is something they arent used to as they have basically owned the market except for oms recently trying to step up to the plate somewhat.
Patricks wholesale price to his lowest level dealer will be cheaper than halycon gives their "distributors"

[Doof]

So are there any details on this doubles wing available? I'll be purchasing a doubles wing in the next couple of months and until now, I was pretty much set on the Halcyon. If this other wing (who makes it? OxyCheq - or am I getting confused?) won't be available soon, I may wind up with the Halcyon anyway...

[Dryglove]

Doof once bubbled...
So are there any details on this doubles wing available? I'll be purchasing a doubles wing in the next couple of months and until now, I was pretty much set on the Halcyon. If this other wing (who makes it? OxyCheq - or am I getting confused?) won't be available soon, I may wind up with the Halcyon anyway...

Email oxycheq about when they are gonna release there wing http://oxycheq.com/

[Mverick]

Checked out the wing at the Chicago show. The one for doubles that is as the single wing is still in Development. From what they said.

It is a nice wing. It has 3 sets of holes to mount with. The ONLY answer on price was "It'll be cheaper then a Halcyon". And the only thing Supposedly holding them up was time. He said he already had the manufacturer just needed to get home and time to get it started. Everything was supposed to start after the Chicago show....

Am I gonna throw my Halcyon in the ebay game and buy one of his. NO

Would I consider buying one of his. Maybe.

His biggest problem is Halcyons strength. Customer service.

If you have a problem with a wing and send it back to Halcyon. Guess what. It get's replaced or fixed for free usually. I had a problem with a display on the O2 meter I bought from him. He wanted me to send $18 or so to buy another display. Now why am I paying a second time for a part that was junk when I received it???

So if I have a problem with a wing and get zero service. What's that wing worth... Not much...

Wings aren't rocket science. Halcyon makes a great overpriced wing. Haven't had a leak in mine. But I haven't had a leak in my OMS without Bunjees either.

On the lights he had at the Chicago show. Really nice. definately over built. A couple of features I wouldn't need in a light. But yea, a nice light. Once again, have a problem out of the box and I couldn't rely on his service so I ain't buying one.

HS explorer he sells. Nice computer. His answer to my question about reliability was "Some guy's diving VR3's on a trip had there computers all acting up and the Explorer had no problems". Seems the exact oppisite of what's been published on the Explorer. If I have a Problem with it is the service there? Nope...

On Flashlights. The canada company sells nice lights too. It's just a flash light. Not a Transponder for the Starship Enterprise... 2 O ring seals is a good thing. But it's a light... Same with the spools...

I want something that works every time. I don't need fancy. Overbuilt is fine if it's not overpriced and I want service if it screws up.... He fills all but the last.

He even said to me. He was small. And didn't want alot of stuff coming back in because his profit margin wasn't large enough to replace gear. That's why he wanted stuff that was built solid and reliable and that's all he'd sell...

Then why is he selling the Explorer. It's had huge teething problems from the start...

I still want an Explorer. But without someone who backs it up. I'm not buying from them. Heck. If you buy your VR3 from Simply Scuba you still get a great warranty.

And as has been said before... A backplate is a backplate. I like 316 because it's a little more corrosion resistant then 304. But it's a backplate. 304 is fine. It ain't gonna rust away. And it's still a steel plate that goes on your back... If you want it to fit your back better. Put it in a vice and hit it with a hammer. It's steel. It bends...

[padiscubapro]

Doof once bubbled...
So are there any details on this doubles wing available? I'll be purchasing a doubles wing in the next couple of months and until now, I was pretty much set on the Halcyon. If this other wing (who makes it? OxyCheq - or am I getting confused?) won't be available soon, I may wind up with the Halcyon anyway...

Patrick@oxycheq said he is expecting his wing for doubles by the end of the month..

Double O-rings on flashlights are definately NOT overkill.. I have seen more than 1 diver back off the scout light too far and flood it..

The explorers had some problems and were fixed promptly at no charge to anyone.. part of the perceived problem is that some explorers were being sold by individuals knowing they were supposed to be sent back and replaced..

case in point Hydrospace announced on its web site and to its customers at the beginning of August to immediately send in the computer for upgrade/replacement, abysmal customers weren't notified until november(and abysmal denied they were the same computers and even called the their rejects to some people who asked).. You cant blame oxycheq for problems caused by someone private labeling the same computer.

Hydrospace has listened to his customeer's suggestions and has constantly upgraded the computer.

Hydrospace added full RGBM for only $50 for its old customer(no charge for any other software upgrades).. I had one of the first new model VR3's that had some software bugs.. and had to pay for the upgrade to fix it.. When I purchased my VR3 the cell connector was supposed to be able to be added at anytime(it turns out it needed to be sent to the factory)... with the connector and upgrade my bill was something like $180 this was supposedly a break.. it was marketed as being able to be added at anytime it could have been easily made to be user installable for small additional cost.

Hydrospace's upgrade to a cell integrated version is a more but its a computer swap and was never in the original marketing.

I have had hundreds of trouble free dives on the explorers, with only 2 problem dives.. One is something that is now documented in the manual(for older computers and is not present in newer computers) occurred at the surface(and was very unlikely to happen) and could have been avoided easily, and the other was the reason for the recall.. I got one of the earliest "new" cases and had the flood which put on alert.. the solution was discovered and no tbls since then. The funny thing is the case was the only part of the computer that wasn't designed by hydrospace they paid an expert to do their case, and it caused the headaches..

I'm really getting spoiled by the RGBM profiles which are dramatically reducing my deco time..

[Mverick]

Sorry you misunderstood this part of my post.

You said
"Double O-rings on flashlights are definately NOT overkill.. I have seen more than 1 diver back off the scout light too far and flood it.."

I said

"On Flashlights. The canada company sells nice lights too. It's just a flash light. Not a Transponder for the Starship Enterprise... 2 O ring seals is a good thing. But it's a light... Same with the spools..."

Which say's "2 O ring seals is a good thing" But it's already being done by the canadian company. That's what the point was about. No new technology. It's just a light.... And I'm sure people will flood it if it has 100 o rings. Somebody will still screw it up. It's a nice light. But it's already been done. And unscrew the light till there isn't any light coming out. Then stop. Doesn't seem real difficult.

Glad you've posted this about the Explorer. I'd like to get one. I just hadn't heard anything good about reliability... But your the first one to say the problems have been solved that isn't trying to sell me one. Still need to hear other input from those who dive it. Not just sell it. And to clarify. I'm not saying you sell it....


I have hundreds of dives on a Cochran Nemesis 2a also. And have heard all the complaints about them too. And I own 4 of them with the only problem with them being they eat batteries. But never a problem. But that doesn't mean they didn't occur. And that they don't still have bad ones out there. And it doesn't mean people diving it aren't the ones to blame.

Glad to hear he kept you in the loop and fixed yours. But my experience hasn't been the same. Maybe your a buddy of his. I'm not.... Wouldn't know him from Adam. And when he didn't want to cover an $18 part for me on a new just bought unit. It scares me to buy a $1400 computer from him.

Maybe he was having a bad day. And $18 doesn't kill me. But it does teach me not to risk $1400...

[Mverick]

OH,
On the overbuilt lights. I meant the ALUMINUM cannister lights.... Maybe that's where you got it....

[padiscubapro]

Mverick once bubbled...
Glad you've posted this about the Explorer. I'd like to get one. I just hadn't heard anything good about reliability... But your the first one to say the problems have been solved that isn't trying to sell me one. Still need to hear other input from those who dive it. Not just sell it. And to clarify. I'm not saying you sell it....

Glad to hear he kept you in the loop and fixed yours. But my experience hasn't been the same. Maybe your a buddy of his. I'm not.... Wouldn't know him from Adam. And when he didn't want to cover an $18 part for me on a new just bought unit. It scares me to buy a $1400 computer from him.

Maybe he was having a bad day. And $18 doesn't kill me. But it does teach me not to risk $1400...

My repairs went directly through Hydrospace(as do anyone who is smart.. its better to ship it direct than ship it to the distributor who would then ship to manufacturer..) I originally sold some explorers from abyss then backed off.. I kept diving mine but stopped selling them.. I then started dealing with gene and decided I would try and sell them again..
I try and present both sides of the coin.. I am quite happpy with the unit and always dive it(I have a problem with someone who is selling gear and doesn't choose to use it themselves).. I only usually sell to my tech students so recomending it to other doesn't get me anything.. If you do searching on the explorer I have always mentined the good with the bad.. I don't want it to ever come back that so and so said this.. or so and so sold me a pile of sh*t

Patrick has always been a straight shooter with me and I have never heard complaints from anyone else.. I do know he doesn't want to sell to the end user but rather the dive store..
I haven't ever bought any "kits" from him but his finished products are well done.. Patrick does have one piece of gear thats a must for any trimix diver that is his helium analyzer.. I have used others and his does work the best.. its repeatable and checking against known gases it was dead on..
I have always tried to push anyone who has PMed me about buying an explorer to a dealer local to them(I no longer recommend the ABYSS version, if you want some reasons PM me and I'll talk in private). I have sold some over the net but thats not my goal... if someone ask me a question I will give a straight answer.. My livelyhood doesn't depend on selling dive gear or classes..

BTW the non intergarted is $1200 and the integrated is $1300 plus approprite cell/holder, I don't know where you saw $1400, but I understand the sentiment.

[Mverick]

Well actually it was $1500. I wanted it with the P-cell connector for a rebreather....

But it might as well have been anything over $100 I don't want to risk.