How deep how soon?

I saw something on another thread and thought I'd bring it up here to see what you all thought....

Following OW certification, at what point and under what conditions do you think it's safe for a diver to exceed the 60 ft depth that the BOW diver is "rated" for?

Rachel

It's strictly an individual thing. But when you want to do it, I'd recommend you either take the "deep diver" specialty or make a few dives with an instructor, DM or experienced deeper diver until you're comfortable and competent. Just take it easy and keep it fun...
Rick

Of course it depends on the dive and the diver. In general though it makes sense to me to recommend divers get some experience shallow befere venturing deep. How do you define experience though? Certainly not just based on the number of dives. Maybe experience solving problems is what counts.

Since most OW classes don't teach gas management beyond telling you to watch your gauge none of them have any business going deep. Depending on the dive 60 ft could be really opushing it.

Most divers don't seem to be very skilled in buoyancy control, trim and finning techniques either. That will make it harder to deal with an emergency or even stay with their buddy. IMO, those divers should stay at OW class depths untill they get squared away. I guess what I'm saying is from what I see, the average depth for the average diver on the average dive is way to deep regardless of how many tourist dives they've done.

Their are no underwater traffic cops stopping anyone from diving to any depth that they wish to. However, to avoid becoming another "statistic" on a list of divers who should have known better but died anyways. It is recommended that you have a few dives completed (about 15 to 20) where you can gain some much needed experience, then complete an advanced open water course with a recognized certification agency. Part of the AOW covers nitrogen narcosis, and will as part of the course takes you to a depth that will demonstrate this to you. You will be given a math test, or some other means of testing while at deeper depths. You may be surprised at the results. Most people who are honest with themselves report either a slowing of thinking or response times, confusion, light headedness, or a feeling of careless well being to name just a few of the symptoms.

Being aware of the symptoms and diving within your comfort limits and training, is a very big step towards enjoying more of what’s out (or under) their.

The 60 ft. suggested limit was not arrived at without careful consideration, taking into account lessons from divers who’s final assent was at the end of a lift bag.

Hope this is helpful,,,dive safe.

but within a month of being certified I went on a dive trip with several very experienced (notice I didn't say wise) divers and found myself doing 5 dives of greater than 60', including one to 100'. I wouldn't recommend this for everyone, but I have been comfortable underwater since the first time I strapped on a tank. That, careless dive "buddies" and stupidity was all I needed to graduate to deep dives quickly.

I know I'll get grilled for this post, but just felt like sharing... :bonk:

but, with that said, let me offer a few suggestions..

First, the real issue is comfort and familiarity. Familiarity with your air consumption, for example. Gas goes faster the deeper you go. The more you burn normally, the shorter you can stay before you go "oh oh, I'm out of air!" Since that is a REAL serious problem at 100', and is an almost non-event at 30' (most people can make an ESA from 30' without trouble) this is a very real consideration. At minimum you need to know how much gas you need to make a normal ascent from your planned depth, where that pressure is on your SPG, and then at least double that for your turn pressure, because if you have trouble either (1) your gas consumption will be up significantly, (2) you will be sharing your remaining gas with your buddy who has had a problem, or (3) both![/b][/i]

A truly ugly scenario is a double-failure; that's how people die. An example is your buddy goes OOA, you hand him gas, you start your ascent, and then as a consequence of improper gas management you both go OOA on the ascent! The "pucker factor" of the second OOA once you're already stressed can easily lead to either you, your buddy, or both of you either being seriously hurt or dead. Your dive planning should, IMHO, be focused on preventing double failures from occuring - equipment breaks and things go wrong, but the first problem is rarely the fatal one. The second, third or fourth one in a row is usually the one that kills you.

Buoyancy control is a far bigger deal on deep dives. If you make a rocket-ship ascent from 100', you are very likely to end up bent or embolized. If the same thing happens from 30', assuming you don't hold your breath there is a good chance nothing bad will happen to you at all.

I was diving to 100' within a few months of being certified. I do not seem to notice narcosis at all at 100', but at 110', I do begin to.

In general my rule is "change only one thing at a time", and if diving with new gear or otherwise under changed circumstances, make the first dive with LESS task loading than your previous dives. As an example I do a lot of spearfishing. When I started diving dry, my first couple of dives were made WITHOUT a speargun - just to look around. Only after I was comfortable with the suit and how it changed things underwater did I take the gun once again, and again go on the hunt.

Finally, if you're going to dive "deep" (beyond the 60' boundary) give careful consider to both your gear and your buddy. If you do not have an ABSOLUTELY reliable buddy you NEED a fully redundant source of gas - particularly below 100'. I did without this for a while, even on deep dives, but it started to bother me the more I considered whether I'd be able to make a 100' CESA, and if I did manage it, how badly I might get bent doing it. The options that make sense are a sizeable pony bottle, slung like a stage (NOT a "spare air" or a small pony!) or a set of manifolded doubles, with the additional weight and bulk they come with. As a consequence I now carry a 19 cf pony, slung like a stage bottle, on triple-digit dives or any dive where I do not have a reasonable expectation that a buddy will be within immediate assistance distance - which, when spearing, is most of the time! I thought that the slung bottle would be in the way (it IS on the surface!) but it nearly DISAPPEARS underwater; the back swings up under your upper arm, and for all intents and purposes its not there underwater... but if you need it, the 19 cubes of gas will allow a normal ascent from 130', at 30fpm, with a 3-5 minute safety stop, along with a decent safety margin to allow attempting to resolve the original problem and/or a significantly-elevated SAC due to your normal "the water is brown" response. I fill the pony with air rather than Nitrox, because (1) there is NO MOD issue to deal with if I decide to breathe it, (2) I'm headed up if I need it anyway, so the effect on NDLs should be minimal to zero, as I'm not sticking around to accumulate more nitrogen once its been "drawn", (3) I can safely hand it off to another diver who has an OOA or other issue, even if they're only air-certified, without concern as to whether THEY will respect a MOD on the gas or not, and (4) it is trivially easy to top it off without re-mixing from my compressor on every fill cycle, which encourages me to test its use and deployment on a regular basis - an emergency device you never try may turn out not to work when you really need it!

What you are saying is that I was most likely a little overeager doing reverse profile dives to 71' for 45 minutes the day after I was certified with my little blue temp card?

I was just looking through my logbook and realized that my 2nd dive post cert was to 76' and in that first week of diving I did many dives past the 60' mark and a handful over 100' including an unbeliveably aggressive day of diving that included a first dive to 132' a second to 108' and a third to 85'.

Now that said, all these dives were led by at least one divemaster familiar with the dive sites, all were in warm tropical waters, and none had more than a dozen divers in the water. I'm not excusing myself from doing the dives, but at no point was I particularly uncomfortable with the depth factor, with the possible exception of the 132, my buddy and I did the most conservative dive on that with other people on the boat reporting depths in the 145' range and at least one person I saw below that. These weren't square profiles, I touched 132' and did most of that dive in the neighborhood of 120', too deep for my level of experience? Probably, but one person on that trip had certified the day before, this was his first post-cert dive AND he had his camera along.

I've always been very comfortable in the water, my buddy was always at my side, in spite of having the exact diving experience I had I never felt "out of range," and gas management was never an issue for me, I am rather good with air in spite of my limited experience and I check my gauge often to prevent getting caught out.

On my own I've not been below 55', but I don't think that my experience with the deeper dives in tropical climates is at all unique. I consider myself lucky to have been able to dive with small groups, attentive divemasters and in nearly ideal conditions, would I do most of those dives again? Sure would, would I be a little wiser about the very deep dives? Yep.

I'm getting my AOW next month, but I don't necessarily think that holding that card makes me more competent to make deeper dives on my own and that the 60' floor is rather arbitrary for an OW diver just as 90' is arbitrary for holding the extra card. There are divers out there that are incompetent with their faces in the water that hold far more advanced cards than I do (and will) and I include the people that thought it was fine to send down a OW diver with ZERO post cert dives to 145'.

On a side note, on the big day of diving, my computer didn't utter a peep even though in my head I knew I was pushing limits. I walked by the tank rack and everyone who followed the DMs all the way down had computers screaming at them, but not one person didn't make a dive because the computers said they were done for the day. Do computers really rot brains or are the brains rotten to begin with?

R

I wouldn't consider that much of a troll. I do however stick with the assesment that a new diver should stay within the limits set. This does not mean that a new diver will instantly vanish in a cloud of bubbles at 61 feet, and in near perfect conditions as you have described. Diving with a dive master as your buddy, it is likely that you were in very little risk of harming yourself. Try that same dive in cold waters with low vis and a dive buddy who has nearly the same experience level as you had in on those dives, and the risk factor jumps very high.

You sound like the type of person however, from your second post, to be level headed enough to avoid that type of higher risk dive. At least until your training and most importantly your experience level, makes what today would be high risk, into a low risk dive. No dive is without risk, all we can do is train and practice in order to lower the risks, and as a result, expand our experiences under the water.

Dive safe and Have Fun.

biscuit7 once bubbled...
Do computers really rot brains or are the brains rotten to begin with?

R

Click to expand...

That really depends on the person using the computer, how it is used, and their training concerning computers. I am sure pug would have a word or two of advice as far as computers.....but here's my opinion......they are fine to use as a primary or back-up, just remember to have and use a back-up in case all goes wrong. Do not solely rely on your computer, and IMHO, too many shops are not training the students how to use tables in the first place.

<edit>....almost forgot...if you are going to dive your computer, remember to have a back-up dive plan if it goes haywire underwater.....I wouldn't know anything about that