IST Sonic Seeker Anchor Locator?

[Distraction]

Has anyone used this? How well does it work? Any reviews would be appreciated.

[KWS]

Has anyone used this? How well does it work? Any reviews would be appreciated.

I HAVE NOT USED ONE HOWEVER I (oops) was with someone who used one and they were quite satisfied with it. they had it for a couple of years they say.

i am looking for one perhaps the big brother to it. the 2 models have thier pros and cons to it.
easy to find the beacon / direction finder units. tougher finding the locater transponder system. to many retailers i did have the manufacturer of it but lost the name.

re4gards

KWS

[Genesis]

The only one of these general class of devices I've seen that I liked was the XIOS, and they went under.

I had one but sold it - it DID work exactly as advertised though - it was amazing.

[KWS]

it seams so for what i have heard

just did a search for eyesea and found several sources for it. also tried xios and it is no longer in the dns server

[Genesis]

Be aware that there are a significant number of the EyeSea units floating around on eBAY and elsewhere, and a number of people I've spoken to who have tried to get a working set have ended up with nothing but frustration - apparently there are either some out there that have been damaged in some way, or their calibration is hosed.

Some of these folks are unaware that the units can be recalibrated - they can, if you know how.... :D

[KWS]

Has anyone used this? How well does it work? Any reviews would be appreciated.

this unit is basically a xmitter and a receiver the xmitter you put at the reference pont and it pings, the receiver is in your hand wiwth a directional hydrophone. you make a 360 degree spin and the receiver tells you what direction it sees the strongent return using a streighth meter. no distance readings. it is refered to as relative distance. relative becausxe the stronger the sig the closer to the xmitter you are. the xios on the other hand is a transponder system as i understnd it. it pings that xponder echos back that the wrist unit times the difference and converts it into range +\- a foot or so deprending on svp scatter depth and other sonic related factors. it also give you bearing so the freq is high like the ist.

if someone has a good xios i may be interested in it.

KWS

[Genesis]

No, the Xios is a unidirectional unit.

The transmitter is an omnidirectional pinger; it has no receiver functionality. The receiver has three hydrophones on it at 120 degree angles, and a computer inside. It computes range and bearing; I assume it gets distance from attenuation, and bearing from relative strength and possibly phase difference.

[KWS]

No, the Xios is a unidirectional unit.

The transmitter is an omnidirectional pinger; it has no receiver functionality. The receiver has three hydrophones on it at 120 degree angles, and a computer inside. It computes range and bearing; I assume it gets distance from attenuation, and bearing from relative strength and possibly phase difference.

i agree the xmirter has to be omni. the ist receiver is directional. the 3 hydrophones would be for beamforming to get the general bearing. their closeness to each other requires a high freq to work. attenuation is too sloppy to work range from spherical and cilendrical spreading losses are too great 10&20log range and unstable with out regulated power applied to control radiated source level. shallow water will give stronger sig than deep water. perhaps it is sending a time code ofsome sourt. or ssimplier yet,,,when synching the reciever alligns with the xmitters ping rate at 0 rangs. it would transmit on a reliable 1 sec ping interval. that would allow 5000 feet max range interval. then it could work completely passive on the xmitters 1 sec ping rep trate because it knows when it is supposed to xmit then compare the recieved sig time delay to get range. they advertize accuracy +/_6". of course to achieve that it probably monitors water temp to compensate for sound volocity using a given salinity.

when someong told me that the wrist initiated the transponder i wondered how the thing could hold that much battery. now that you tell me it is passive i understand it. of course 20 years of working with the stuff helps.

didnt mean to suggest the smitter was directional sorry

KWS

[Genesis]

Yeah, the max range is something like 3,000 feet. I never went that far with it, but 1500 feet was dead-nuts on, provided you didn't get behind something solid or a thermocline.

Accuracy in my experience was a couple of feet. 6" is more than a bit optimistic, but a couple of feet is pertty darn good.....

Its an interesting device, and if you get a "good" one it works fabulously. Unfortunately there are a bunch of bad ones out there, from what I understand, and there is no more support from the builders since they went under.

If you have a good one, its golden. But beware if you find them on the net; make sure you trust the guy selling them to you, and that he's personally verified that they're ok!

[KWS]

Yeah, the max range is something like 3,000 feet. I never went that far with it, but 1500 feet was dead-nuts on, provided you didn't get behind something solid or a thermocline.

Accuracy in my experience was a couple of feet. 6" is more than a bit optimistic, but a couple of feet is pertty darn good.....

Its an interesting device, and if you get a "good" one it works fabulously. Unfortunately there are a bunch of bad ones out there, from what I understand, and there is no more support from the builders since they went under.

If you have a good one, its golden. But beware if you find them on the net; make sure you trust the guy selling them to you, and that he's personally verified that they're ok!

since you had one how often did it update range that sould be equal to the ping interval. i am guessing 10-20 seconds to conserve on the xmitters power consumption. the beamforming looks to be 15 degree beam apature. heck it could be 30 and still work. bottom maping would mneed a little finer bearing resolution than the 30 however. the accuracy of 3 feet would be a few inches if the water was the modle 4800 fps volosity 60 degree 25 ppt salinity. good luck finding that bathtub in the carib.

what is involved in calibrating one? wil pm my email

KWS

[Genesis]

Updates were once per second.

Calibration involved a special turn-on sequence, then putting the two units in immediate contact in a QUIET place and waiting. The mistake people would make is to attempt to calibrate them on boat or where there was significant ambient noise - that would screw it up and good.

[KWS]

genisis

you got me again. 1 second its amazing that the ping life is 20 hours. it does however confirm that it is not a transponder as a 1 sec poing rate is 5000 feet 2 way propogation. only good for 2500 ' max range . using your explanation of being a sender and a receiver (the only way it can work) it gives 5k range between pings.
we used similar devices on the underwater wepons ranges in the service. both transponders and the xios type devices. had to have a backup for everything. oh well if i find one (a wreck model, the spsort is too shallow of a adepth restriction for the xmitter) then i will probably buy one.

the cal proceedure you gave i have seen before. it is done out of the water as i undersstand making it highly suceptable to ambio noise messing up the sync cal. i have heard of some putting in a bucket to cal. i would think that would have its set of problems also but those much wiser than i wrote the proceedures.

so much for another day of painless enlightenment.


regards

KWS

[Genesis]

I had a wreck model....

The cal HAS TO be done out of water. If you attempt it IN water (e.g. in a bucket) it will APPEAR to work but be totally screwed up. I discovered this the hard way.

Worse, is that once screwed up it sometimes takes a LONG time to re-cal when done correctly - not the 2-3 minutes they claim, but more like a half-hour or so.

BTW, the lifetime of the 8 AA cells in the transmitter is somewhere on the order of 40 operating hours. I never managed to exhaust ONE set of batteries in the transmitter the entire time I had the unit. The receiver batteries were good for 4-6 hours or so with a set of 2100mah NiMH rechargeables (4 AA cells)

[KWS]

I had a wreck model....

The cal HAS TO be done out of water. If you attempt it IN water (e.g. in a bucket) it will APPEAR to work but be totally screwed up. I discovered this the hard way.

Worse, is that once screwed up it sometimes takes a LONG time to re-cal when done correctly - not the 2-3 minutes they claim, but more like a half-hour or so.

BTW, the lifetime of the 8 AA cells in the transmitter is somewhere on the order of 40 operating hours. I never managed to exhaust ONE set of batteries in the transmitter the entire time I had the unit. The receiver batteries were good for 4-6 hours or so with a set of 2100mah NiMH rechargeables (4 AA cells)

thats good to know i thought that there should be too high reverberation level in the bucket. perhaps that is why those who have tried the ist and the xios think the ist is better.

thanks for the info, you have confirmed a lot of suspicions i had about the device. ii am getting to like it more and more. now to find the funds, perhpas from the birthday fund. cant use the flower fund i will need that, if i can replace those funds in time. oh well. spring time is coming she can find her own.


kws

[Mr Adams]

Hello

I 've used the Sonic seeker many time in the past and for there value they work fine and they have a range of about 4000 ft I beleave, I've never stretch the limit to actually test my unit but have been out over 2000 ft and I've had a light signal with no problems bringing me right back to my entry point. When I first started to look into underwater navigation toys I made a big mistake of buying one on Ebay and as you can guess it was damaged and never worked and the seller was long gone there after or just never returned my emails Yes! negetive feed back for that %&%. Always buy new.

Thank you

Richard

[DoUDive2]

I have always liked the idea of a sonar direction finder for navigating back to the boat, but I'm concerned about the affect it may have on the fish. Is there any information regarding which fish may be able to hear it? Can any of these devices be activated remotely (i.e. by the diver when ready to return)?

Chris

[archman]

Most marine life (that can hear) can only pick up low frequency sounds, which is why there's so much hooplah about the Navy's LOFAR sonar. Sonic pingers usually operate at high frequencies that most animals cannot hear.

[divefan]

I have been calling all day to find an underwater sonar unit. I can tell you all this. Neverlost by Scubapro is no longer being made or sold. Xios as some of you have said already is out of biz. I got in touch with Desert Star directly and they are "in production" and will not have any units available till May. Last is the Sonic Seeker made in I think Australia that was sold by a shop or two in the states but I can't find anyone who carries it any longer either. Anyone know who may have anything like this in stock ready to sell?

Thanks.

[mroe]

I reaaly want to buy one of these things. Can't find them anywhere at the dives shops in Phoenix, nor on line ether. Help!

[DoUDive2]

I have been calling all day to find an underwater sonar unit. I can tell you all this. Neverlost by Scubapro is no longer being made or sold. Xios as some of you have said already is out of biz. I got in touch with Desert Star directly and they are "in production" and will not have any units available till May. Last is the Sonic Seeker made in I think Australia that was sold by a shop or two in the states but I can't find anyone who carries it any longer either. Anyone know who may have anything like this in stock ready to sell?

Thanks.

There is another thread on this subject in the subforum called General Equipment Discussions. See the post #91 for some prices and links. (
http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=567227&postcount=91)

Chris

[divefan]

Chris,

Those are exactly the units I was talking about in my post. :bonk:

[divefan]

Well, I finally found a company that is making an underwater sonar system for sport divers. I just received my Desert Star "Dive Tracker Sport" yesterday. It came nicely packed in a Pelican case and consists of 2 modules. You can check out their website for details on the products they make. I have not used the system yet so I cannot say whether or not it works as advertised. I will post again as soon as I have tried it out in the ocean. Unfortunately, it has been blowing here nonstop for weeks. I just wanted to let those know who have been searching for a product like this that there is still one in production.

[rcapilli]

Well, I finally found a company that is making an underwater sonar system for sport divers. I just received my Desert Star "Dive Tracker Sport" yesterday. It came nicely packed in a Pelican case and consists of 2 modules. You can check out their website for details on the products they make. I have not used the system yet so I cannot say whether or not it works as advertised. I will post again as soon as I have tried it out in the ocean. Unfortunately, it has been blowing here nonstop for weeks. I just wanted to let those know who have been searching for a product like this that there is still one in production.

Just wanted to know if it worked very well. I am looking at purchasing one but was wondering if it is worth it. Thanks for your reply.

With respect,
Rob
rcapilli@bellsouth.net

[divefan]

Funny you should ask that question. Actually it worked very well for one day's diving. Without going into detail the bottom line is I had to return it to the company for a refund. The housing has a rinky dink cap system that IMHO is prone to leaking. Overall the unit is top notch other than that. I spoke to the guy that does the actual design and he said that the more expensive SPORT model is not one that he designed and has been giving them some problems. He did accept the unit back. He also recommended I try the less expensive model which he DID design. He claims it is bulletproof. I said OK and am still waiting to receive it. I will let you know how it holds up once I receive it and use it.

[DoUDive2]

Funny you should ask that question. Actually it worked very well for one day's diving. Without going into detail the bottom line is I had to return it to the company for a refund. The housing has a rinky dink cap system that IMHO is prone to leaking. Overall the unit is top notch other than that. I spoke to the guy that does the actual design and he said that the more expensive SPORT model is not one that he designed and has been giving them some problems. He did accept the unit back. He also recommended I try the less expensive model which he DID design. He claims it is bulletproof. I said OK and am still waiting to receive it. I will let you know how it holds up once I receive it and use it.

I wish they would install a bearing indicator. I don't like the idea of having to manually "sweep" the unit around to determine the direction back to the pinger.

Chris

[rcapilli]

Funny you should ask that question. Actually it worked very well for one day's diving. Without going into detail the bottom line is I had to return it to the company for a refund. The housing has a rinky dink cap system that IMHO is prone to leaking. Overall the unit is top notch other than that. I spoke to the guy that does the actual design and he said that the more expensive SPORT model is not one that he designed and has been giving them some problems. He did accept the unit back. He also recommended I try the less expensive model which he DID design. He claims it is bulletproof. I said OK and am still waiting to receive it. I will let you know how it holds up once I receive it and use it.

Thanks for your reply. I purchased the SCOUT. It was a little cheaper and I am concerned about the quality, but I am willing to give it a shot. I will be using it in August and will let you know what I think about it.

[rcapilli]

Thanks for your reply. I purchased the SCOUT. It was a little cheaper and I am concerned about the quality, but I am willing to give it a shot. I will be using it in August and will let you know what I think about it.


I just purchased the SCOUT yesterday. There is not a lot of info about it yet. I will also send a few pictures to my web site when I receive it. I can scan the instruction book as well and will place that up on my web site as well. I hope to get it next week so try back here say, Wednesday the 30th. If I get it sooner I will send you an email. Needless to say I am a bit skeptical about this "sweeping" idea but I have not hear a bad thing about it yet. Try www.epinions.com they may have something on it there.

[divefan]

Looking forward to your next post.Thanks.



I just purchased the SCOUT yesterday. There is not a lot of info about it yet. I will also send a few pictures to my web site when I receive it. I can scan the instruction book as well and will place that up on my web site as well. I hope to get it next week so try back here say, Wednesday the 30th. If I get it sooner I will send you an email. Needless to say I am a bit skeptical about this "sweeping" idea but I have not hear a bad thing about it yet. Try www.epinions.com they may have something on it there.

[KWS]

chris

your point is well taked on the direction indicator. as a retired submarine sonarman i have a little background in this. first when you are sweeping around in a 360 you are manually pointing a directional listening hydrophone array. hence, when you watch for the largest/strongest signal indication you are determining the direction of the strongest signal. to have a bearing indicator, you would need a circular hydrophone array that has a series of time delays and a means of changing the delays on each hydrophone to corospond to each bearing on your indicator. this is an expensive process. the higher the frequency tha smaller of array used, the less tolerance to error the device readout has. the device has to delay each hydrophone signal and then add the delayed outputs of each hydrophone and then measure the sum. the highest sum will be on one set of many delay combinations that will be one bearing of many bearings. look at a radio direction finder, you just turn the antenna 360 degrees and you get the general direction of a radio source. do this with 2-3 stations you can find your position if you know the location of the source. ie station wls in chicago is north and wwv fort colins colorado is north west. you can figure you are perhaps louisianna as opposed to new york. if you ived in chicago you could follow the signal home. in the case of the seeker you know the location of the source. you put it there. you dont know distance only general direction. follow the direction and it will take you to the source. increasing signal strength in dicates decreasing range. if you repeatedly dive in the same quality of water you can loosly relate the number of lights to range because the number of lights is an indication of signal strengh. the streingh received like a radio is dependant on range and interferance like weather ect. similar water say mid gulf (where the underwater weather stays somewhat constant) wlll leave the range being the major factor to variation in signal strengh. in a lake or shallow water a little rain makes the water muddy and the signal attenuates more (stirred up sediment) making the # of lights to range relationship also inconsistant. hope this helps a little. the proce of a seeker set vs. the cost of a xios system is a lot because of this and the range calculations it does which is another technology. when it comes to underwater stuff, simplicity is the best choice for the buck as it appies to most tasks

regards

KWS




I wish they would install a bearing indicator. I don't like the idea of having to manually "sweep" the unit around to determine the direction back to the pinger.

Chris

[jenniferg]

Did you ever try out the Desert Star Scout? How was it?