What's the deal with this?

So Monday I go into my LDS. Actually I should say former LDS because after this, and many other issues, I'm finding a different one. Anyway, I'm just picking up a few odds & ends and I asked the co-owner there about any local trips coming up. They tell me that about a few trips and give me some flyers and I think that's cool. This person then tells me about minimum training and equipment for the trips. Well at the end of it they say "Any diver planning a depth of over 100ft, must have a pony bottle."
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Well, of course I laughed and then noticed that I was the only one laughing. They were serious! They had no size requirements, just that the diver had to have a pony bottle. So I said something to the effect of what's the point of that if I was using doubles with an iso manifold and a proper buddy. I tried to reason that this would certainly be a replacement for a pony bottle. Now comes the part of real concern, they had to check with another person at the shop to see if double tanks with an isolation manifold would be acceptable! The whole conversation just freaked me out, who are they to start invoking those kind of rules on my gas management?

So yeah, I think it's time to move on as this shop doesn't match my idea of diving. Not just because of this little run in though, there have been many other things atributed to my change.

Has anyone else had this kind of experience with their LDS? Any kind of weird rules like this pony bottle one?

It was realy sound advice,your sac rate and experience
not being questioned.
FREEFLOW at that depth and what are your options
ESA? your buddies octo
I Can relate 3 drownings on octo accents fronm that depth quite recently.
But then they are not the SCUBA police you can
dive with another concern.
Howard

Hey steeldiver, welcome to the board. I have a few issues with this mandated pony bottle rule. I think that double tanks with an isolation manifold would provide better gas redundancy than a pony bottle. Especially since the shop has no size requirements on the pny bottle. At least with double tanks, you have two large tanks with the ability to isolate their contents to each respective tank. Also, with properly maintained equipment, the freeflow at depth is not an issue. It is possible but unlikely. If I have an equipment problem that renders me without gas, I'm getting my buddy's primary regulator out of his mouth until I get the situation resolved or we make our accent. A concept that the shop in question still doesn't grasp very well.
It was the "pony bottle or no diving" attitude that set me off about it. It seems as if they want to try and solve a gas management issue with a piece of equipment rather than require the proper knowledge to solve the issue correctly.

Something I didn't ask but should have is exactly what was their reasons for this pony bottle rule. I was just taken aback by the rule itself and the response I got to my proposed idea of proper management.

Hi SCORE,

I can understand the requirement for a redundant air source, IMO they should however specify a min std eg. size of pony.

If you are diving twins with iso manifold you are in far better shape than a pony , surely thats a given ?

I dive twins but no manifold as Health & Safety demand it here for DM training, they require "full" redundancy (their words not mine).

Time to find another LDS, but please tell them why and they have a chance to reconsider the error of their ways

Good luck
Hoppy

double tanks with an isolation manifold would be considered a BIG pony...

Hey Hoppy is that a new regulation - I did my DM in the UK and was not required that kind of configuration.

Not my LDS but the club in the UK required boat and drift certification for diving from the club boat - this brought their insurance down to an acceptable figure.

Jonathan

People do tend to come up with some strange new requirements once in a while.

Anyway Score, I will have to admit that this one sounds a little starnge indeed. An isulated double setup seems to make more sense than a pony (at least to me).

I will have to take your side on this one.

And in any case, if you are not happy with the LDS, it might be time to make a change (just relax, take it easy, you're still young... la,la,la...).

Ari

Business is tough these days. Next requirement, any diver planning to get wet needs a dry suit.

Jonathan once bubbled...
Hey Hoppy is that a new regulation - I did my DM in the UK and was not required that kind of configuration.

Jonathan

Click to expand...

Hi,

New HSE regs came out back end of last year, they now insist on redundancy (sensible) but don't consider mainifolds acceptable.

Twin tanks four regs ! Expense added to a DM course.

Anyway thems the rules this week mate. They are changing them all the time.

Cheers
Hoppy

At some depth - 100' is pretty arbitrary - a diver should have a redundant gas supply. This might be a pony, an "H" or "Y" valve with two regs, doubles with isolation manifold, independent doubles.... even (in some cases) a dependable (and I mean dependable) buddy.
So the shop was sorta headed in the right direction, but their execution of the plan stinks.
Rick

Score,
Irrespective of whether you move on down the road or not, you are pointing out an excellent reason to have an ongoing relationship with any LDS. For example, if the shop was familiar with your equipment configuration and how well you manage your gas and overall diving experience and skills, their rule may not be applied to you. Depending on the anticipated dive environment, it may be very prudent to establish standards for the depth floor.
While they were filling your doubles you had an opportunity to discuss the types of dives you are doing and your experiences with the staff. They should have had an opportunity to observe your gas management and overall buoyancy skills during previous trips with them. I certianly would have pointed out that the equipment they sold you would be put to good use on their trip.
It's definitly their loss, but you may want to invest some effort to establish a relationship with the new LDS that includes familiarity.
Dive Safe,
Larry