I've been diving about a year and I'd like to start doing some underwater photography. I am an experienced photographer in the air and I want to start underwater with inexpensive equipment. I have found a couple of possibilities. One is a Sea Life DC800 which costs about $400. The other course would be one of the many inexpensive Canons plus a Canon underwater case.
What do you think of these two options?
Thank you in advance for your time and knowledge.
Regards,
Bob
Grover48
January 27th, 2009, 07:07 AM
I prefer the SeaLife Pro.
You get the camera and a strobe which helps with color at depth.
Underwater Ogre
January 27th, 2009, 11:55 AM
I would suggest a SeaLife with a strobe also.
Good luck,
U/O
texasaubiefan
January 27th, 2009, 12:15 PM
So here's the quick answer and then a long one.
Quick: Grab a housing for your camera (especially if it's point & shoot). You've got to be comfortable with controlling the features. Next, buy a very good strobe and be prepared to spend money on it. I'd recommend any of the higher-end Ikelites or Sea & Seas. Your lighting is more important than your camera. Most amateurs come out w/very blue pictures or over-exposed pictures w/flash. Putting money into the flash allows you to upgrade your equipment (which most people do if they get into it) and you don't have to junk your investment in the flash.
Long Answer:
Most new photographers take cheap down and it shows. I did. I had a Nikon point & shoot (a high-end one though) and a Fantasea strobe. Well over 2/3rds of my pictures were throw aways. All of my pics had 2 common issues - blurred or incorrect lighting. The blurring was caused by inadequate shutter speed and auto-focus speed from the camera. Most P&Ss are great for still pictures and when you have time to setup. Neither of these happen underwater frequently. The 2nd issue was bad exposures (over or under or just blue water). That was a weakness in the strobe. Most cheaper strobes don't throw off alot of light and the angle of the light is relatively narrow. Combine that with the fact the strobe isn't metered to the camera (they fire when the camera flash fires and fire the same light regardless of what's needed), and you can see the dilema. That means trial & error shooting until you get what you want.
So here's the reason for all of this. If you get into shooting underwater, you will upgrade. To what will depend on your shooting. So before investing a ton, go shoot. See what you like and don't like. Then you can be specific on your needs and your budget (underwater photography can cost a small fortune). If you've got a good strobe, you're going to immediately increase your odds of better pictures (since color loss is the main issue) and you've got an upgrade path.
I now shoot an SLR with dual strobes. On my last trip to Bonaire, about 80% of my pictures were keepers and I have several that will be in competitions this year. The bad ones were because of me, not my gear. My old Nikon setup is sitting in the closet - I use it when instructing UW photography. My cheap fantasea strobe - I sold it for 30 cents on the dollar to a friend just starting out (after I bought it new a year ealier). On my Bonaire trip in December, there were about 15 photographers in our group. As I expected, the ones with the better flashes and gear (yes these were more expensive) had the better pictures (and they had a higher percentage of keepers).
One of the rigs I saw that I liked was a Canon G10 with a single Ikelite DS51. Two of the advanced photographers (one owns his own studio) were shooting this setup. Neither matched my SLR, but they both came away with great pictures. The setup still has some of the inherent issues with focus, speed, and light metering, but the camera was very fast relative to most point and shoots, and the strobe more forgiving.
If you want to see pictures, contact me and I'll be happy to share to show you what I'm talking about.
WVDiver
January 27th, 2009, 12:55 PM
PM sent.
Nemrod
January 27th, 2009, 01:16 PM
This was told to me a long time ago and it is still true I do think.
The two most important factors in getting good photographs are:
1) The perspective of the person pushing the shutter button.
2) Get close, no get closer, nope, get closer still, and to do that you need a very wide angle lens.
Oh and:
3) Get a strobe and learn how to use it for fill lighting.
Notice, I did not include purchasing a 4,000 dollars camera or any of that.
N
drdaddy
January 27th, 2009, 01:27 PM
I go to Walmart and buy a $10 underwater special. It does "freeze up" at 50 feet and pictures are all blue/grey for anything deeper than 20 feet in clear water. :) But it does the job for "memories".
I take plenty of pictures above water - Canon (digital) and Nikon (film) and Sony Camcorder.
I'm a hunter/gatherer - not a photog.
drdaddy
texasaubiefan
January 27th, 2009, 02:49 PM
nemrod - you're dead on on getting close. that's the single best thing you can do to minimize color loss.
for any of you that felt I was pushing expensive gear, I'm not. I own it simply because I see the difference in it and wanted it for my diving. The best recommendation is to get a simple setup to begin with and go dive. You'll figure out fairly quickly whether you're happy with the results. But let's also be clear, unlike topside photography where gear matters little, underwater it does. Just like better regs, wetsuits, fins, etc make a difference too and also tend to cost a little more. but in the end, the important thing is to go dive and spend what your comfortable with.
Peter Guy
January 27th, 2009, 03:14 PM
I have a Canon S80, Canon housing and Inon D2000 strobe. The most expensive part of the setup, and the most important part, is the strobe -- without one you'll only be taking "I was there" pictures IMHO.
I am very tempted to house my dSLR because I know I'm losing shots do to the technical limits of my gear. That said, I can get very good shots -- both "macro" and "wide angle" and I get decent video too -- all with a setup that fits into a small case.
What's a guy to do?
{Note -- various pictures:
This weekend (http://www.tsandm.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=165)
Pics with and without using external macro lens (http://www.tsandm.com/indonesia/)
Actual picture:
http://www.tsandm.com/gathering/0528af10.jpg
Peter Guy
January 27th, 2009, 03:15 PM
I have a Canon S80, Canon housing and Inon D2000 strobe. The most expensive part of the setup, and the most important part, is the strobe -- without one you'll only be taking "I was there" pictures IMHO.
I am very tempted to house my dSLR because I know I'm losing shots do to the technical limits of my gear. That said, I can get very good shots -- both "macro" and "wide angle" and I get decent video too -- all with a setup that fits into a small case.
What's a guy to do?
{Note -- various pictures:
This weekend (http://www.tsandm.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=165)
Pics with and without using external macro lens (http://www.tsandm.com/indonesia/)
Actual picture:
http://www.tsandm.com/gathering/0528af10.jpg
You will get what you pay for -- spend the money on a good strobe!
Nemrod
January 27th, 2009, 03:30 PM
I agree, money spent on good equipment is never a waste. When I had my Nikonos III the most important thing I owned for it was my twin strobes and followed by my Sea Sea WAL adapters. Now with my little Canon 570IS the most importat thing I own for it is my Inon D2000 strobe and my Inon wide angle lenses.
This excellent, sharp, well lit, photo taken by a friend with a high dollar DSLR:
These are posted just so you can see real world differences between a twin Ike strobe Ikelite housed Canon dSLR vs a Canon 570IS P&S with Inon D2000 single strobe with diffuser. I think that in the photo above I actually fired the strobe aimed behind me to bounce the light. The light colored limestone made an excellent diffuser.
N
RAWalker
January 27th, 2009, 11:14 PM
I also am an advanced amateur on the surface with 30 years experience.
I've been shooting underwater for a couple of years now.
My first outfit started as a Fuji F-700 in it's matching housing. I added a pair of inexpensive strobes (Pixtreme PX21 (Same as Fantasea Nano)) for $99 each.
On my last dive trip my camera got flooded. Keep in mind that it is not a matter of if you will flood a camera but when. For this reason I originally set up a P&S and will continue to use P&S cameras underwater.
My replacement is a Fujifilm F50fd it is a 12 meg, advanced P&S with full manual control
The camera can be had for less them $150 and so can the housing. Fantasea makes a port adapter that will allow the use of their Macro, wide angle and filter lenses with the housing. This makes for a very versatile outfit at a tight budget price.
I've yet to use it underwater but I have a strong feeling it will set a price/performance ratio mark that will be hard to beat.
hammerhead man
January 28th, 2009, 10:02 AM
I would buy a camera that you can initially use as a point and shoot but has a manual option that you can use as you get comfortable with using a camera underwater. I learned early on that taking UW photos is not easy because of bouyancy, currents, and viz greatly affect your ability to take pics. I have used Sea&Sea cameras and have been very happy with them. I know own a DX-1G that can be used as a point and shoot camera but can also be used in a manual mode. I have two Ys-110 strobes and a wide angle lens as well. I am not a professional photographer but I am happy with my results. Click on my "photos" link in the left side of my post to see pics I have taken.
The amount of money you are willing to spend obviously dictates what you will buy. My rig will run well over $1000. There are other cameras that you can get for less. A DSLR rig will cost several times that amount. I would also recommend taking an UW photography course. I took the PADI course through my local dive shop and it was helpful. I also took a couple of online courses that were very helpful. Here is a link to the courses I took: The Underwater Photographer, Underwater Digital Photography Classes: Improve your underwater photos (http://www.theunderwaterphotographer.com/).
If you have any questions, email me at jamescrew6@verizon.net
Regards,
Bill
W
Peter Guy
January 28th, 2009, 01:39 PM
Back to the OP's original question:
What camera to get? First question -- What do you want to do with it? Are you primarily interested in taking "good" images (see my prior post -- at least I think some are "good") or are you primarily interested in taking "very good/great" images?
Second question -- What is your budget?
If you want "great" images (of the "I want to sell these" type) -- I'm convinced you need a dSLR and at least two strobes. The jump in pure image quality due to the choice of lenses just makes a dSLR a "better" camera than any Point 'n Shoot. Yes, the most important piece of camera equipment is the eye behind the lens BUT, the lens is number two and does make a huge difference.
If you are willing to be satisfied with merely "good" images, then go the Point 'n Shoot route due to the cost and flexibility of them -- not to mention ease of use and ease of transportation. To determine WHICH Point 'n Shoot -- I'd suggest looking at the following:
a. How "wide angle" is the native wide angle? For example, my Canon S80 has a 28mm wide angle (35mm equiv) which is why I went with it over the Olympus SP350.
b. How "macro" is the native macro? A lot of shooting tends to be macro (and this is where the dSLR's shine) so how good is the "macro mode" on the P n S?
c. How much control will it give you? Does it have a manual mode? Does it have manual focus? And if so, how easy it is to use when housed? (BTW, I didn't consider the ease of use of those two items when my S80 is housed and I wish I had because it is near on to impossible to change settings in manual mode with my housing in cold water -- i.e. with dry gloves one.)
d. Another issue I'd look for is RAW capability. I know it is a big thing for a lot of people but, for me, it is not all that important but then I don't use RAW when shooting with my dSLR on land. (Also, most of my UW shooting is done with a strobe so I'm not doing the blue color correction.)
e. The last issue is video. I don't use video very much but I'm very happy I have that option with my P 'n S. For example, when we dropped off the boat into a pod of dolphins I shot a few still and then switched to video and got several priceless minutes of us playing with the dolphins -- not to mention a much earlier video of a humpback doing a loop and swimming around us. Video is a very good addition which most dSLR's don't provide (the new D90 does, right?).
Anyway, to the OP, those are my thoughts -- and I still don't have a clue what is the "right" camera for UW photography -- although I believe there are many that are the wrong camera!
