Unsafe Diving on the Caribbean Explorer II??

I just came off the CEX II (Jan 24 to Jan 31). It was the Saba St. Kitts trip. We had a situation on one dive and I wanted to share this with you all and gets some feedback on what I believe is unsafe diving practices.

Here's what happen. My wife is newly certified and had only have 2 dives after she got PADI certified two years ago. This was going to be her first real immersion into lots of multi-day clear water diving. She was quite nervous about this trip. She was doing great all week and getting more and more confident and comfortable with each passing day. We were scheduled to do a deep pinnacle dive off Saba Island. The pinnacle top was approx. 100 feet with the bottom at 180 feet so she was bit apprehensive about this dive and expressed her concerns to the Dawn the divemaster about her no deco time and air limits. Dawn assured here that she would dive with her and that if she didn't think she could do it she would tell her. My wife was diving all week on a 63 cubic ft tank filled with air. She is not nitrox certified. Now we were briefed about the dive by Dawn and told to signal her when the first person had half a tank and/or 5 minutes of no deco time left. At that point we were told we would be escorted back to the downline where a second DM would be waiting to escort divers up. So that was the dive plan, off we went.

The guided dive started fine and we all proceeded directly towards ther pinnacle. There was a small amount of current at depth and we had to kick quite a bit to reach the pinnacle. We reached the pinnacle in about 8 minutes. My wife max. depth was 105 ft upon reaching the pinnacle. Nearly as soon as we reached the pinnacle my wife signaled the Divemaster that she had 1500 lbs. and 7 minutes of no-deco time left. Within a minute or two we started our return trip to the down line. All appeared to be fine. Time spent on the pinnacle was breif and uneventful. The return trip took about 5 minutes and was not as strenuous a kick back. I made it to the line and looked back to see my wife and the dive master about 40 feet behind me making their way towards the mooring line. All appeared fine. I then saw my wife signal the divemaster that she had 900 lbs of air left. Dawn the divemaster said ok and showed my wife her guage which read 2000 lbs. My wife was amazed at how much nitrox the DM Dawn had left. (She has gills) Dawn then took my wife's hand and proceeded to swim away from the mooring line! I looked at my guage and I had 1200 lbs left and I wondered why they were heading away from the line and not back to it. The clock was ticking and air supplies were running low. Two more minutes passed and Dawn sent my wife back to the line where I was at 85 feet waiting and watching. When my wife reached me we started to ascend right away, she had 700 lbs at 85 feet. I immediately reached for my octopus and had it ready to give to my wife. As we proceeded up the line Dawn the dive master reached us and I pointed angrily to my wife's guage. She was in the red now at 600 lbs. Dawn then gave my wife her main regulator which was a short length of hose and she took her second stage which was not an octopus but a regulator attached to her BC inflator hose. As we all proceeded up to 15 feet for our safety stop the mooring line was swingly wildly. As my wife tried to hold on regulator she was breathing off of and it was nearly ripped out of her mouth. Dawn then pulled my wife and herself off the swinging line to flaot freely in the blue.

After speaking with Dawn the divemaster, it was her intent to "air share" with my wife stating that we do this all the time and it was ok. She also stated that she had other divers to look after and to make sure they were able to stay as long as they could. My opinion is that this was totally unnecessary risk that could have easily cascaded into a more serious accident had my wife paniced. To intentionally create a low air situation with the intent of sharing air with a new diver at a deep depth I believe was highly dangerous. The fact that my wife is a new diver who has never been this deep before, she was nervous and apprehensive about the dive, she was diving a 63 cubic foot tank while the rest of the group was on nitrox and using 80 cubic foot tanks or 100's all should have been taken into account and perhaps a third DM should have escorted my wife on this deep dive. I asked my wife why she did not proceed directly back to the mooring line and she said that she felt that Dawn knew soemthing that she didn't. Dawn took her hand and took her away from the mooring line so she followed. As a new diver and a person who is a bit timid and shy in the first place, she was following the "expert diver" and didn't think she should leave her buddy.

After the dive I spoke to the captain (Ian) about this situation. I told him that 700 lbs of air left was not a safe amount and air to surface safely from 85 feet. We are all taught to to be on the boat with 500 lbs in out tank. Not on the line with 500lbs, not on the surface or ladder with 500 lbs, but on the boat right! That is thte safety margin. He vigorously defended Dawn and said that 700 lbs was plenty of air to surface from 85 feet.

Bottom line is this....we did not Plan Our Dive and Dive Our Plan as we were told in the pre-dive briefing and as we had been taught by PADI. It changed underwater and led to a low air emergency. This was not the first time that the dive plan was different than the actual dive.

So I would like to know others opinions on this situation. As this was a guided dive I have always been taught that the group will go down together and come up together. We were not on our own for this dive. The group will and should dive to the lowest common denominator of the group. This did not happen. There was another instructor on the boat who certified my wife. After the dive, my wife's certifying instructor told the DM that she would not have taken my wife on this dive to begin with. Stating that is was too deep for her level and there was no relief on the dive if there was a problem.

The safety issues I see in this situation are this:

1. Newly certified & nervous diver
2. deepest dive ever with no relief (105 feet) bottom was at 180 ft.
3. diver was on air not nitrox
4. diver was using small 63 cubic foot tank, tank too small for depth of dive
5. DM had no yellow 5 or 6 foot long octopus for emergencies, diver forced to breathe off of short first stage which created more anxiety underwater.
6. DM did not Dive the plan
7. DM did not have diver on the mooring line with 1000 lbs or more for the ascent
8. DM did not inform diver that they would air-share if needed

For the record I think Dawn is a great diver with great skills. Of course everyone surfaced and lived. Nobody got bent. But I have read enough incident reports where small little problems quickly escalate into larger problems and sometimes drownings and/or decompression sickness. It made me very uncomfortable knowing how close this situation was to a much more serious problem. I believe proper protocol and PADI guidelines were not followed in this situation for this new diver.

Your thoughts please??

Was this the first deep dive of the week? New diver should not be taken to this depth. But its your ultimate decision. They did give you a Dm to assist and it was your decision to do the dive. As far as Nitrox is concerned it is a non factor to your problem. If they supply 32 or 36 no one should be diving any where near 180 ft

I have to agree divedeepr has a legitimate complaint . The DM is displaying the wrong message to a diver low on air who should be ascending . In the real world if this practice were applied you would have two divers swimming around at 85 feet running out of air .

divedeeepr:

I just came off the CEX II (Jan 24 to Jan 31). It was the Saba St. Kitts trip. We had a situation on one dive and I wanted to share this with you all and gets some feedback on what I believe is unsafe diving practices.

and/or 5 minutes of no deco time left. At that point we were told we would be escorted back to the downline where a second DM would be waiting to escort divers up. So that was the dive plan, off we went.

The guided dive started fine and we all proceeded directly towards ther pinnacle. There was a small amount of current at depth and we had to kick quite a bit to reach the pinnacle. We reached the pinnacle in about 8 minutes. My wife max. depth was 105 ft upon reaching the pinnacle. Nearly as soon as we reached the pinnacle my wife signaled the Divemaster that she had 1500 lbs. and 7 minutes of no-deco time left. Within a minute or two we started our return trip to the down line. All appeared to be fine. Time spent on the pinnacle was breif and uneventful. The return trip took about 5 minutes and was not as strenuous a kick back. I made it to the line and looked back to see my wife and the dive master about 40 feet behind me making their way towards the mooring line. All appeared fine. I then saw my wife signal the divemaster that she had 900 lbs of air left. Dawn the divemaster said ok and showed my wife her guage which read 2000 lbs. My wife was amazed at how much nitrox the DM Dawn had left. (She has gills) Dawn then took my wife's hand and proceeded to swim away from the mooring line! I looked at my guage and I had 1200 lbs left and I wondered why they were heading away from the line and not back to it. The clock was ticking and air supplies were running low. Two more minutes passed and Dawn sent my wife back to the line where I was at 85 feet waiting and watching. When my wife reached me we started to ascend right away, she had 700 lbs at 85 feet. I immediately reached for my octopus and had it ready to give to my wife. As we proceeded up the line Dawn the dive master reached us and I pointed angrily to my wife's guage. She was in the red now at 600 lbs. Dawn then gave my wife her main regulator which was a short length of hose and she took her second stage which was not an octopus but a regulator attached to her BC inflator hose. As we all proceeded up to 15 feet for our safety stop the mooring line was swingly wildly. As my wife tried to hold on regulator she was breathing off of and it was nearly ripped out of her mouth. Dawn then pulled my wife and herself off the swinging line to flaot freely in the blue.

After speaking with Dawn the divemaster, it was her intent to "air share" with my wife stating that we do this all the time and it was ok. She also stated that she had other divers to look after and to make sure they were able to stay as long as they could. My opinion is that this was totally unnecessary risk that could have easily cascaded into a more serious accident had my wife paniced. To intentionally create a low air situation with the intent of sharing air with a new diver at a deep depth I believe was highly dangerous. The fact that my wife is a new diver who has never been this deep before, she was nervous and apprehensive about the dive, she was diving a 63 cubic foot tank while the rest of the group was on nitrox and using 80 cubic foot tanks or 100's all should have been taken into account and perhaps a third DM should have escorted my wife on this deep dive. I asked my wife why she did not proceed directly back to the mooring line and she said that she felt that Dawn knew soemthing that she didn't. Dawn took her hand and took her away from the mooring line so she followed. As a new diver and a person who is a bit timid and shy in the first place, she was following the "expert diver" and didn't think she should leave her buddy.

After the dive I spoke to the captain (Ian) about this situation. I told him that 700 lbs of air left was not a safe amount and air to surface safely from 85 feet. We are all taught to to be on the boat with 500 lbs in out tank. Not on the line with 500lbs, not on the surface or ladder with 500 lbs, but on the boat right! That is thte safety margin. He vigorously defended Dawn and said that 700 lbs was plenty of air to surface from 85 feet.

Bottom line is this....we did not Plan Our Dive and Dive Our Plan as we were told in the pre-dive briefing and as we had been taught by PADI. It changed underwater and led to a low air emergency. This was not the first time that the dive plan was different than the actual dive.

So I would like to know others opinions on this situation. As this was a guided dive I have always been taught that the group will go down together and come up together. We were not on our own for this dive. The group will and should dive to the lowest common denominator of the group. This did not happen. There was another instructor on the boat who certified my wife. After the dive, my wife's certifying instructor told the DM that she would not have taken my wife on this dive to begin with. Stating that is was too deep for her level and there was no relief on the dive if there was a problem.

The safety issues I see in this situation are this:

1. Newly certified & nervous diver
2. deepest dive ever with no relief (105 feet) bottom was at 180 ft.
3. diver was on air not nitrox
4. diver was using small 63 cubic foot tank, tank too small for depth of dive
5. DM had no yellow 5 or 6 foot long octopus for emergencies, diver forced to breathe off of short first stage which created more anxiety underwater.
6. DM did not Dive the plan
7. DM did not have diver on the mooring line with 1000 lbs or more for the ascent
8. DM did not inform diver that they would air-share if needed

For the record I think Dawn is a great diver with great skills. Of course everyone surfaced and lived. Nobody got bent. But I have read enough incident reports where small little problems quickly escalate into larger problems and sometimes drownings and/or decompression sickness. It made me very uncomfortable knowing how close this situation was to a much more serious problem. I believe proper protocol and PADI guidelines were not followed in this situation for this new diver.

Your thoughts please??

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Take responsibility for yourself..Both you and the wife are certified and should know when it is ok and NOT ok to dive to your abilities.To answer some of your issues:
1.Newly certified and nervous....you were certified 2 years ago --if not have dove in 2 years and especially that you did next to no diving after certification should have told you to do a refresher as is accepted standard before you went on the trip,and if smart do a advance course with an instructor on the trip to be supervised while getting into activity again.
2.Deepest dive...see my 1st answer above...
3.Nitrox had NOTHING to do with the situation at all.It does not change your air consumption one iota..She is responsible to monitor her gas supply,that is why she is certified.
4. A small 63 tank is a non issue also,she could have used a larger one if she wished, she choose to use a smaller tank.I use a 50 or a 63 on warm-clear dives all the time and get back to boat with everyone else and have 800 psi or more left at the end of dive.IT is again the individual divers choice on what to use.Wife chose wrong.
5. The DM had and alternate air source,just not the kind you are used to..Quick cure to that is to take advance class -get familiar with other types of gear in use and monitor gas supply so it becomes a non issue.
6 and 7.You state dm wanted 1000psi at ascent line..So she had 900psi..not a big deal and again a non issue.Did you know that an analog spg can be off as much as 10-15% in its reading?
8..If trained and certified the dm should not have to retrain you on a boat on how and when to use an alternate air source..

One thing to remember is the DIVER is always responsible for himself/herself. You probably signed a release to this effect and the PADI training is very clear on this. No DM or buddy should ever talk anyone into a dive they are no comfortable with. When I was a beginning diver I sat out several dives because of cold water, deep water, current or whatever.

Your wife as a beginning diver should not have been diving at that depth especially with a small tank. It sounds as if no one really thought out this dive. Assuming you have more experience, you should have known this wasn't really smart. The DM certainly should have known ahead of time that this was risky at best with a small tank and a new diver. Leaving safety out for a second, it's not fair to other divers since she would surely need to surface before the other divers in most cases even if everything went perfect. I've seen many women dive with a small tank but they have all been very experienced divers with terrific breathing. As a beginner, your wife should learn to use a larger tank or dive shallower and practice a lot more so she can use less air.

I hope the DM didn't really PLAN on sharing air to complete the dive with the other divers. That would be totally irresponsible.

The DM should have a longer hose on her primary when that's the regulator used for sharing air. I have that same setup and know exactly how problematic it can be especially with a standard length hose.

If you and your wife are not able to figure your air usage accurately at various depths you might consider investing in air integrated computers. They allow you to quickly determine NDL as well as remaining air time in minutes. That will make you feel more comfortable about the amount of air you have at any given depth. Remember however that you use much less air as the pressure decreases or you ascend in the water column. The computer will almost certainly show more air time as you ascend. You may gain several minutes as you ascend. While you can't easily calculate this yourself, you'll have more confidence about it as you gain more experience. The DM's is probably very aware of this while new divers rarely are. That along with her ability to share air was the reason she didn't panic when your wife had 700 lbs at 85 feet. (You failed to mention the gauge reading at the end of the dive)

My guess is everyone made mistakes. Your wife should have know this dive was beyond her training and ability. You should have realized this too. Since the DM allowed this dive and knew the risk to your wife and the likelyhood of a short dive for everyone else, she really screwed up the dive for everyone.

Don't obsess over all of this. Consider it a learning experience. Now you know more about your limitations and abilities. You probably realize you should choose easier dive locations for your wife until she develops more abilities and confidence. Don't give up.

I agree with ncchuck, a diver is ultimately responsible for their diving.

A few questions for you...

Why did you send your wife down on a 63cf tank to begin with? I would have recommend at least an 80cf, and more likely a 100cf tank? Did no one suggest this, because it seems rather obvious.

Why were you 40ft in front of your buddies?

Why was there no air on the line at 80~100 feet? Seems like a very prudent idea in case someone ran out of air, or was running low.

It sounds like the DM handled things OK. Sure the plan was not followed, but on the other hand, how does one handle someone running low/out of air? They alter the plan, and stay with their buddy, which is what your DM did.

You sound like you want to blame the DM for some things you should have taken into account. First, your plan was flawed, and their does not appear to be any good gas management planning either. Sending a new diver down past 100 feet on an AL63 IMO was the first mistake, and you share in that blame.

I think rather than blaming the OP for everything, you need to take a hard look and accept some of this blame. If you expect trust me dives, than open your eyes. You were lucky that your DM stuck with your wife but I question why you did not?

In any event look for positive things to take from this rather than focusing on the blame game. Better gas management in the future is not something to think about, it is something you NEED to practice. Sending a new diver to 100+ feet on a 63CF tank in current IMO is just foolish.

I have to agree with the others here - your wife is a certified diver and is responsible for deciding to do a dive or not. She is responsible for managing her air supply. The DM did what all DMs do and try to make the dive possible for every diver who wants to go, even though they may not be "certified" to that depth. The DM did nothing wrong from what I read. Also, I never hold onto a hang bar or anchor line for a safety stop if conditions are rough - that is dangerous! I have seen people bounce up and down +10' trying to do a safety stop and that isn't very safe! It is better to float off to the side and manage your own depth.

700psi is enough air to go from 85' and make a safety stop. Being back on the boat with 500psi is a rule used by most dive ops just to make sure people don't run out of air at depth - meaning it is a loose rule. (I have actually gotten back on the boat with less than 100psi due to a long swim back to boat after getting lost once. I wasn't forced to walk the plank over it). It is always better to spend time on a safety stop than to surface JUST to get back on the boat at 500psi.... I do 5-6 minute safety stops most dives if I have the air (and I usually do).

You and your wife are both beginners and need to relax a bit and not stress over this. You wife was always with a DM who had the situation under full control. And once again, if your wife wasn't comfortable to make the dive after hearing the briefing, she should have skipped it. I have been on several liveaboard trips and many times divers skip dives that are above their comfort level. No one demands everyone do every dive!!! I have even skipped a dive or two because the conditions looked a bit rough for me and I didn't want to fight the current. There is no shame in sitting out a dive.

I would highly recommend you and your wife both do the Advanced OW class. It will give you lots of information about diving deeper than your OW cert, and also learn about gear and nitrox.

robin

Good job for asking questions, Divedeepr. I understand that is why you posted this and that you are checking your conclusions and you should be commended not condemned.

#1 - Your story makes it difficult to tell who your buddy really was. The answer to that should be you should always buddy with your wife. If you both aren't experienced, then you both dive together according to your experience. Do not give the wife to the dive guide. The guide has got too many responsibilities and the potential requirement to go deep to bring somebody back, which you guys aren't ready to stick around for. The guide is a good person to hang around but not depend on. The guides also use a lot looser safety margin because they are doing this day in and day out. You shouldn't depend on those standards because she isn't ready to handle the potential problems.

I would agree that planning on sharing air particularly with a new diver was a bad decision on the guides part. Actually stupid in my opinion but the guides can get complacent with continuous diving they do. They should have said I can't take care of you alone, so you have to go back to the boat.

You are correct that you should be diving based on the safety margins specified in your training. Your instincts are correct that those standards are there for a reason and a new diver shouldn't be testing them.

However, you need to take complete charge of your own diving and dive your own plan with the wife. It sounds like you knew all those things but did your own trust me dive and let your wife be taken away and then didn't stick with them like you should have. When we reached the upline and the dive guide started to take her off instead, the guide would have felt me tapping on their shoulder to point back to the line, rather than glaring at them from 40 feet away. The part about the tank size was also "trust me" decisions which you should have followed your instincts on.

Newbie divers on Saba should not be diving from live-aboards because the moorings on the deeper, pinnacle dive sites do not accomodate larger boats. This means that the live-aboard must tie off near by and the dive be led by a DM who knows what they're doing. The depth is daunting to the newbie but it's unfair that the entire group be limited to the skills of someone who's only done two dives, two years ago. The local, land-based operators have small boats that can moor on-site, and the apprehensive new divers can choose their own profile and stay close to the down line.

I understand to some extent where your coming from, you paid a great deal of money to be on that liveaboard and to have guides to make sure you get the bang for your buck on each dive.

Now with that said I think that anytime a diver has concerns about any aspect of a dive they need to fully express that to the DM or whomever is in charge of that dive, we are not a species of mind readers.
The choice to dive was you and your wifes not the DM's, and the DM is not your lifeguard unless you paid for that kind of service.