Drysuit 101...

[I Dive]

I can't believe I am actually thinking about drysuits, but after this Florida Winter (shut up Northerners, I was one of you and I still hate cold!) I think by next Winter I need to be diving dry if I want to keep diving year round. And, I have it in the back of my mind to go tech in the next year or two which I think makes a drysuit nearly mandatory. So... What advice do you all have to offer? What's a good dry suit for someone who will primarily use it during Florida Winters but may also use it occasionally in environments that dry suits were truly designed for? Are there different "levels" or whatever of drysuits for different water temps? Thanks for any info you can provide!

[Underwater Ogre]

There definitely is different levels of dry suits in relation to temperature.

Full neoprene - great in the cold lots of inherent insulation. The thicker the mil...well you know the rest....same as wetsuits. Very nice below 40F

Compressed Neo - less air in the material therefore not quite as warm. start at 2m and commonly don't get thicker then 4mil. Mid range...some temperature control depending on the undergarments, but a 4 mill can be a pretty warm suit.

Laminates...aka...bagsuits - no insulation...load on the undies....depending on what you are wearing under the suit, will determine how low on the mercury you can go. I have worn a bi-laminate suit at 36F...but I had 3 layers of undergarments.


I would go with a laminate suit in your climate...it gives you lots of temperature control. If you are a bit of a cold person...you can step up to a compressed neo.

Good Luck,

U/O

[Pitchblack]

I would also say that the most suitable suit in Florida (for me Florida is really hot all year round) would be a trilam suit.

[seadoggirl]

I'm in florida also (panhandle) and mine is a bagsuit. Love it Love it Love it! I only put one layer under it and stay as warm as toast!

[jscott099]

Laminate for sure in Florida. As stated above, you tailor the undergarments to the conditions. I dive mine all year round on the NC coast. Even in the summer. I just wear some lite thermal underwear. When it gets colder I wear thick stuff like primaloft. I was down in the keys last weekend (late Jan 09). Dang it got cold. Chilly air and water was high 60's on the Duane. I wish I had brought it with me then.

[The Kraken]

I'd recommend a laminate suit.

the K

[I Dive]

Thanks guys!

[Rick Inman]

Take a look at the White's Fusion for mobility. When I first saw this suit I thought, warm water (although I use it in cold with thick undies).

[JDostal]

I'd agree on the Trilam. That way you can customize how much warmth you want by adding layers of insulation. Definitely a good thing.

As far as to what brand...there are dozens. Find a suit that you think looks good, is made in a durable fashion and most importantly fits you well and gives you good range of motion with all the insulation you will wear.

[DA Aquamaster]

+1 what Ogre said. For truly cold water a neoprene is impossible to beat - they are the only option for long dives in water colder than 40 degree that will not leave you feeling the cold at some point in the dive. And a snug fitting un compressed neoprene suit swims very nice - almost like a wet suit.

On the other hand, they are too warm in water warmer than about 60 degrees, especially if you end up working hard in them, so they are not an option for Florida wreck and cave diving.

Trilaminate suits are nice in that the insulation is adjustable and you can wear in them in 80 dgree water with basically nothing underneath or wear them in 40 ish water with heavy undergarments.

However it is far from perfect and the temp adustment possibel with undergarments fo varying thickness has finite limits. Since the material in a trilam does not stetch the cut of the suit needs to be generous enough to allow a full range of mobility in the thickest undergarments you intend to wear. That either limits you to fairly thin undergarments and cool rather than cold water (55-60ish) or means that in thr 70 ish Florida cave environment you will have a suit that is baggier and draggier than is optimum.

One additional feature is that you can get a trilam with self entry zippers. That is both a blessing and sometimes a curse. The normal DUI diagonal across the torso zipper requires an extended torso that adds bagginess, drag and a fold to try to limit the bagginess. This aggravates the already generous cut needed to ensure a full range of mobility.

Whites and Andies dry suits use a different sef entry design with the zipper starting at the top of the left shoulder, running down the front of the chest under the inflator and up to the top of the right shoulder. It provides easy self entry with a shorter and trimmer torso like that used in a suit with a traditional across the back of the shoulders non self entry zipper.

So in effect the diagonal across the torso zipper is my least desired choice in zippers.

+1 on the Whites Fusion. In addition to the superior zipper arrangement, it offers a very liberally cut waterproof layer that goes under a stretchy exterior skin. The skin keeps things slightly compressed, helps control air movement in the suit and prevents any excess bagginess to reduce drag in the water. In effect, the suit swims very much like a wet suit and avoids may of the traditional dry suit control issues. In addition, the liberal cut of the water proof layer, allows for a great deal of variation in undergarments (or even seasonal weight gain/loss) without compromsing either the excellent mobility of the suit or the streamlining of the suit. I have owned several dry suits of various types over the years and none of them offerred more flexibility or range of motion than a Fusion.

Finally, the exterior skin takes all of the abuse in a wreck or cave and because it is free to move and stretch a bit, it is much more durable than you would expect it to be. In my experience it is more durable and leak resistant than a trilam.

[D_B]

I'll mention something that has not been brought up ...Training .. get it , and from someone that knows what they're doing and will stress you

I never would have known how difficult a drysuit could be when things go wrong without it

what to ask them about training ? .. I've heard that my drysuit class was a good one ... http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/advanced-scuba-discussions/260824-padi-dry-suit-class.html

[I Dive]

I'll mention something that has not been brought up ...Training .. get it , and from someone that knows what they're doing and will stress you

I never would have known how difficult a drysuit could be when things go wrong without it

what to ask them about training ? .. I've heard that my drysuit class was a good one ... http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/advanced-scuba-discussions/260824-padi-dry-suit-class.html

I am definitely getting the training, no doubt about that. I don't have any interest in taking off like a hot air baloon from 120 feet, and/or floating towards the surface upside down because my legs are full of air!

[D_B]

Good Idea .. my instructor would thank you for doing so :)

floating on the surface upside down? .... LOL! you have to read my post on my class
(BTW, that PADI Drysuit Class link is to my posts about my class and training, and not a link to padi)

[Underwater Ogre]

I have to agree with the other posters about the Whites Fusion. Very comfortable suit. I don't fit a regular off the rack suit, except for the Fusion. It will fit anyone.

Have fun, stay safe,
U/O

[Reg Braithwaite]

+1 on the Whites Fusion. In addition to the superior zipper arrangement, it offers a very liberally cut waterproof layer that goes under a stretchy exterior skin. The skin keeps things slightly compressed, helps control air movement in the suit and prevents any excess bagginess to reduce drag in the water. In effect, the suit swims very much like a wet suit and avoids may of the traditional dry suit control issues. In addition, the liberal cut of the water proof layer, allows for a great deal of variation in undergarments (or even seasonal weight gain/loss) without compromsing either the excellent mobility of the suit or the streamlining of the suit. I have owned several dry suits of various types over the years and none of them offerred more flexibility or range of motion than a Fusion.

Finally, the exterior skin takes all of the abuse in a wreck or cave and because it is free to move and stretch a bit, it is much more durable than you would expect it to be. In my experience it is more durable and leak resistant than a trilam.

I dive a White's Fusion, and wish to offer some cautionary observations. First, it is offered in two versions: one with a Lycra over-layer and one with a combination of Lycra and compressed neoprene over-layer ("Tech Skin"). The Tech Skin is more expensive, but be forewarned that you must have the Tech Skin to install pockets, whether factory pockets or after-market pockets like the Halcyon.

This has bitten me big-time and I have had to order the Tech Skin at additional expense. I haven't tried it yet, but repeating second-hand knowledge I have heard that when loaded up, the Tech Skin pockets sag on land but dive just fine. Other suits like DUI or White's other products do not have any problem with pockets sagging.

Another observation is that the Fusion does not have integrated boots or gloves. The feet are like really big socks and after putting socks on your feet and your feet in the suit, you then put boots or booties of some kind over the suit. Some people prefer a suit where the boots are integrated into the suit. I wear one pair of thermal socks and a pair of neoprene booties inside the suit and then either my tropical booties outside the suit or a pair of White's heavy diving boots depending on what fins I'm diving.

I wear either heavy wet gloves (Tobermory) or reef gloves (St. Lawrence River). This works for my recreational dives, but but many people like dry gloves with a ring system, especially for longer and colder dives. You are in Florida, you may not care, but I am just pointing this out before you buy. If you want to use a dry glove system, I suggest researching whether this can be added to the suit after-market. To the best of my knowledge White's do not sell dry gloves integrated with the Fusion.

[DA Aquamaster]

Many people use innovative concepts dry glove rings with the fusion. A latex seal is a seal and if the ring installs in the seal it will work with the Fusion - although they are easier to install in some suits than others.

The pocket sag is an issue, but one that is overblown. I cave dive with jump reels, safety spools, wet notes and tables in my pockets and frankly do not really notice the sag any more even on land. In the water it is a non problem. There are a couple Scubaboard Fusion users who glued velcro on the under layer to keep the pockets in the correct location above water.

Integrated boots were the standard for decades, but they are frankly a PITA. They add one more item on the suit that has to fit you and in nearly all cases, they add to the feeling that your feet are being squeezed, primarily when you are floating vertically on the surface. I have never felt like my feet were being squeezed with integrated socks under some variant of a "rock boot" like Whites EVO3 or Alterra boots (which by the way hold up much better in real world use than the original DUI Rockboots). With any Rock Boot clone, my opinion is you have much better feel and control of the fin in addition to better footing when getting in or out of less developed dive sites. The traditional vulcanized rubber integrated dry suit boot is in my opinion a dinosaur.

I am also not a real dry glove fan. If you keep your core adequately warm a dry glove offers nothing over a quality 5mm wet glove with fairly leak free seams even in very cold water as your hands will stay warm. In fact, in very cold water most dry gloves are a bit too snug to allow you to use a thick enough liner underneath and your hands end up colder. Also, I have noted on some commercial dives that dry gloves have to be either very heavy (and then lack feel when usd in combination with a heavy liner) or are very prone to getting punctured and then leaking - and a wet dry glove is not much warmer than no glove at all. All in all I prefer 5mm wet gloves in cold water to dry gloves.

[Van Isle]

If most of the time you dive and say, "man, I wish I was cooler on that dive" then I'd say don't worry about a drysuit. If you sometimes or more frequently say "that wasn't so bad" with respect to the cold, or even "brrr!" you might want to consider a drysuit. A trilam/bag suits really, really let you tailor the warmth to the water. I wear mine down to high 30's with lots of poofy undergarments, and I dove in Mexico to mid 70's with less. A friend of mine wore a drysuit for his Indonesian liveaboard trip, all the time, each dive, in really, really warm water. It's really nice to get out of the water and be dry. No towel, no salt stains all over your body. It's also great back-up buoyancy control. With the "bag" suit you don't need multiple suits for different conditions, i.e. no big neoprene drysuit for "really cold" conditions, another lighter suit for "kinda cold" and a wetsuit for "warm" conditions. One suit can really cover pretty much all of it. FWIW you can install permanent or quick dry glove systems on a White's Fusion, and the Fusion packs even smaller than a 5/3 wetsuit for travel/tropical diving.

VI

[Reg Braithwaite]

Many people use innovative concepts dry glove rings with the fusion. A latex seal is a seal and if the ring installs in the seal it will work with the Fusion - although they are easier to install in some suits than others.


I found aftermarket gloves by Diving Concepts (http://www.divingconcepts.com/link1.htm) with a quick search. Did you mean those? The only Innovative Concepts gloves I was able to locate were lobster gloves...

[DA Aquamaster]

Hmm...I can't find them either - and I own two sets of them. I am not exactly sure who may sell them now.

They are nice in that they do not have the lenght or the bulk of many ring systems and are easier to install.

[Jimmer]

Hey Reg. Take your Fusion and go see Matt at Dan's. He put those Diving concepts dry gloves on my Fusion and they have never even had a slight leak.

I agree with DA Aquamaster about the pockets. They do sag, but it's not the huge issue that a lot of people make it out to be.

[jscott099]

Someone mentioned training...good. I think other dry suiters here will agree. It takes at least 10 (I think more really) dives in a dry suit to start to get good at the buoyancy. But once you do, it's hard to ever want to go back to anything else. Reef diving will be easier. But if you are caving or doing wreck penetration, it will take many more. Suggest as soon as you get one to dive the heck out of it. Good rule of thumb: when you do have to put on a wet suit for a change and jump in and feel that water on your back...your first thought is 'oh heck, my dry suit is leaking!!'.

Speaking of which, if you dive it heavily, prepare for wrist and neck seal replacements about once every 12 to 16 months.

One more: if you do long dives and drink coffee a lot (like me)...a pee valve will become priceless. You can go to any home medical supply store for the catherer condoms. Another trick...look online for someone who sells pool table supplies. You can buy big bottles of pure talc for much cheaper that way.

[DA Aquamaster]

I'd consider 100-130 or so dives per year as diving fairly heavily, and I average 3-5 years on seals, so seal replacement is not that big of an expense. If you keep them rinsed and talced between dives, they last longer. Also, wrist seals are easy to replace yourself. Neck seals can be a bit more complicated.

I agree a pee valve is nice. If you do any decompression diving at all, or repetetive diving near the NDL's I'd suggest a pee valve is essential as you need to stay well hydrated to reduce the risk of DCS.

If you go the pee valve route, I'd also suggest getting the Rochester sample pack (free), then ordering a box of the size that fits on-line. Many home health stores sell freedom caths and they are not nearly as well suited to the demands of dry suit diving as the Rochester wide bands.

[JDostal]

P-valve's rock.

As far as the wrist seals go don't sweat it. I put about 100 dives a year on my suit and I don't take care of them at all and I can easily get 2 to 3 years out of them.

The training has the potential to be beneficial. I honestly don't know anyone that has ever taken it. If you don't do training just stick to a few easy dives the first couple of times and stay on top of buoyancy. You always want to stay ahead of your buoyancy with a drysuit. Make sure you can get air out of your feet and you are good to go.

[gxsr_sarge]

I'm in Miami and recently got a DUI TLS 350 for our "winter" dives and GUE tech and cave training. I've been doing a lot in the recent month with water temp in the high 60's w/ a 150g undergarment. AND WOW!!!! I LOVE IT and will be hard pressed to dive wet again. Its sort of a haze "donning" the DS (especially in you use a P-valve) but it kicks ass.

As far as training, when I got it in mid-December, I asked high and low for a "drysuit instructor" and was told something like "Hey, you're in Miami, why the hell would you dive dry?" or all of the instructors I knew had never even put one on! My GUE instructor was not available so I read a few books, articles and the actual DS intructions and then took a dip in a confined 4-5' environment, with my doubles, etc. It took me about 3 or 4 dives to get my trim and balance. I had to lower some weight (I was using a set of AL80's and had "light feet") and focused on arching my back and keeping my head pinned against the isolation manifold. After about 10 dives, I did my GUE Fundamentals Tech checkout dive - and passed.

So if you're already a master of your own buoyancy, the transition shouldn't be that tough and a class shouldn't be THAT mandatory, but if you could, why not. If your buoyancy is marginal - TAKE A CLASS!

[boulderjohn]

Many I have never felt like my feet were being squeezed with integrated socks under some variant of a "rock boot" like Whites EVO3 or Alterra boots (which by the way hold up much better in real world use than the original DUI Rockboots).

Here is an update from a recent demonstration by a White's rep.

The Alteras are being discontinued. IMO, a good idea. The bungy laces on mine broke, and they cannot be repaired. (It is amazing to me that anyone would design a boot with laces that cannot be replaced!) I sent mine back and, in theory at least, I am supposed to get Evos in their stead.

Whites will be introducing an integrated boot for the Fusion at Dema next fall.

I have never dived with an integrated boot, but in examining a friend's DUI soles, it looks to me as if it is little more than a really basic wet boot glued to the outside of the shell. He loves it and says that he won't get a Fusion (which he otherwise loves) until they do it, but I don't understand it.

[D_B]

I would like to say that good buoyancy control is not the primary purpose of getting drysuit training, at least it wasn't with my training.
mine was .... mastering a stuck inflator valve, and what to do with a way over filled drysuit, all before you go shooting to the surface
better buoyancy control and proper trim were also covered but they not the primary focus of my class

[SCUBAPIRATE]

I have a Zeagle Trilam and love it. My only advice is get a self donning one.

[jscott099]

Self dons are useful (although sometimes more expensive than the back). Cavers have come up with some neat tricks to be able to zip a back zip solo.

I am hear to tell you that once on a drift in Rainbow River in a rental dry I really, really, really had to pee. Given that kind of motivation (and a little limberness), you really can actually unzip a back zip suit by yourself. And, zip it back.