No AquaLung Forum?

[azspecter]

Why is there no AquaLung forum here?

[El Orans]

Very simple.

They haven't requested one.

FAQ: Have you thought about your own forum on ScubaBoard? (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/faq.php?faq=market_place_faq#faq_faq_man_priv_foru m)

[azspecter]

LOL- ahhh, ok. Thanks!

[NetDoc]

Actually, we have ASKED them to let us host one for them, but to no avail. We would love to have them on here!

We provide a FREE forum for any manufacturer who would like one. No strings attached!

[OceansBlue]

Actually, we have ASKED them to let us host one for them, but to no avail. We would love to have them on here!

We provide a FREE forum for any manufacturer who would like one. No strings attached!

Why do they (AquaLung or any other company) have to participate to have a specific forum for a manufacturer? Even if they don't participate, it would be nice for us forum members to be able to ask and answer questions associated with a specific company...especially a high profile company such as AquaLung.

Doug ~

[PhilEllis]

I would expect that Aqua Lung either does not understand the value of social media or they do not relish the appearance of the "unanswered" questions that would result from such direct contact with consumers (and dealers)........or both.

Can you image the VERY first question they would get from participation in a forum...

"How, EXACTLY, does LeisurePro get millions of dollars worth of your merchandise each year?"

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment (http://www.divesports.com)

[The Kraken]

Why do they (AquaLung or any other company) have to participate to have a specific forum for a manufacturer? Even if they don't participate, it would be nice for us forum members to be able to ask and answer questions associated with a specific company...especially a high profile company such as AquaLung.

Doug ~

Well, you can do that without a forum having to be created, all you have to do is start a thread entitled, "AquaLung Gear", or something like that.

The manufacturer's forum was created to give each manufacturer a specific location in which they can address, directly and one-on-one, any issues with their respective products.

It is disappointing, however, that such a famous name in the diving industry elects not to join us here.

the K

[mike_s]

I would expect that Aqua Lung either does not understand the value of social media or they do not relish the appearance of the "unanswered" questions that would result from such direct contact with consumers (and dealers)........or both.

Can you image the VERY first question they would get from participation in a forum...

"How, EXACTLY, does LeisurePro get millions of dollars worth of your merchandise each year?"

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment (http://www.divesports.com)


I imagine the 2nd question would be "why do you strong-arm your dealers with manipulative price controls? "


but don't want to answer questions like that...... :shakehead:

[Captain Larry]

Who wants to buy anything sold by them anyway?

[adjuster-jd]

I am told that aqualung does have someone that spies on (reads) these forums.. Too bad they don't participate. Aqualung does make pretty good quality gear and also represents the Apeks brand. Sure would be nice to have their participation on SB.

[mike_s]

I am told that aqualung does have someone that spies on (reads) these forums.. .


There have been dealers that have posted something about Aqualung on Scubaboard that have gotten calls from Aqualung management or their legal team.

They are a very controlling, micro-managing, anti-consumer run business.

[BobbyC]

There have been dealers that have posted something about Aqualung on Scubaboard that have gotten calls from Aqualung management or their legal team.

They are a very controlling, micro-managing, anti-consumer run business.

That would be enough NOT to support them.

[TC]

And if you were an executive with AL would YOU want a forum here after reading this thread?

I sure wouldn't.

[mike_s]

And if you were an executive with AL would YOU want a forum here after reading this thread?

I sure wouldn't.



they have to reap what they sew

[fireflock]

And if you were an executive with AL would YOU want a forum here after reading this thread?

I sure wouldn't.

Heck yeah I would!

Who in their right mind would pass up a chance to control/shape the message about their own company, get direct feedback from their customers, and reach tens of thousands of customers who spend more than most on diving?

For FREE.....

Even if you couldn't see the benefit 5 years ago, you have to be as bright as a box of rocks not to see how well things have worked out for the brands that have asked for a forum.

That fact that they don't have a forum (or at least an official presence) does tell you something important about their management.

[scubadada]

Many buy quality products from Aqualung, Suunto, Scubapro, Uwatec, and Atomic without them having a forum on Scubaboard. Their products stand on their own merit. If you don't like their marketing model, don't buy their products, it's simple. They're not the only ones.

Good diving, Craig

Go buy all your equipment from Leisurepro if that's what suits you, to each their own

[fireflock]

Atomic doesn't have it's own forum, but they do have someone who contributes as a designated representative of Atomic.

Aqualung/Suunto and ScubaPro/Uwatec the only 2 major companies that are AWOL.

[BobbyC]

Aqualung/Suunto and ScubaPro/Uwatec the only 2 major companies that are AWOL.

I'm new to diving and have been looking for gear and found this forum. I have no idea which company is good or not and this section has help a lot. I've heard good things about both Aqualung and Scubapro but was wondering why they didn't have a sub-forum here.

I can understand why a company wouldn't want an official forum (or sub-forum) but I think they have far more to gain with a presence than w/o.

There have been dealers that have posted something about Aqualung on Scubaboard that have gotten calls from Aqualung management or their legal team.

They are a very controlling, micro-managing, anti-consumer run business.

If this is true, I would definitely not buy their product no matter how good it is.

[fireflock]

I don't think Aqualung or Scubapro make bad products. I've used products from each (but don't anymore). I do think that they're more worried about selling product to their dealer networks than they are with making sure that customers have a good experience.

The missing 2 (AL and SP) have huge dealer networks, and they get pressure from their dealers to fight the evils of the internet and keep things like they were 15 years ago. Having an official online presence would undercut the dealer pressure to keep local dealers as the only way a customer can get information, receive service, or buy product. Dealers just don't want to compete with each other on selection, service, or price.

From a customers perspective, you're stuck with whatever dealer happens to be in your local area. They might be great (many are) or they might suck monkey toes (many do). SP/AL are more concerned with happy dealers than happy divers so they try not to give customers alternatives if their dealer happens to suck.

[mike_s]

If this is true, I would definitely not buy their product no matter how good it is.


One of the more revealing threads about Aqualung, the "Terminated Relationship with Aqua Lung America......" thread was deleted after Aqualung and their legal group interjected with SB management.

The post was deleted....



but other threads about Aqualung and how they manipulate the dealers and consumers.


see http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/141594-aqualung-discussion-moved.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/230320-aqualung-gray-markets-fyi.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/regulators/272974-aqualungs-war-online-consumers.html


http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/173006-aqualungs-stance-e-commerce.html


plus many others.....

[scubadada]

Atomic doesn't have it's own forum, but they do have someone who contributes as a designated representative of Atomic.

Aqualung/Suunto and ScubaPro/Uwatec the only 2 major companies that are AWOL.

I don't think Aqualung or Scubapro make bad products. I've used products from each (but don't anymore). I do think that they're more worried about selling product to their dealer networks than they are with making sure that customers have a good experience.

The missing 2 (AL and SP) have huge dealer networks, and they get pressure from their dealers to fight the evils of the internet and keep things like they were 15 years ago. Having an official online presence would undercut the dealer pressure to keep local dealers as the only way a customer can get information, receive service, or buy product. Dealers just don't want to compete with each other on selection, service, or price.

From a customers perspective, you're stuck with whatever dealer happens to be in your local area. They might be great (many are) or they might suck monkey toes (many do). SP/AL are more concerned with happy dealers than happy divers so they try not to give customers alternatives if their dealer happens to suck.

Hi fireflock,

I respect your choices though do not share them. No Scubapro, Apeks, or Aqualung regulators and no Uwatec or Suunto computers. I don't see Halcyon or OMS listed either, no BP&Ws? Many divers would find this policy incompatible with their current equipment ownership.

Good diving, Craig

[BobbyC]

One of the more revealing threads about Aqualung, the "Terminated Relationship with Aqua Lung America......" thread was deleted after Aqualung and their legal group interjected with SB management.

The post was deleted....



but other threads about Aqualung and how they manipulate the dealers and consumers.


see ... (edited out because I have less than 5 posts... D'oh!)


plus many others.....

Thanks for the links. I've noticed many companies fight the evolution of their markets, especially with the increasing growth of e-commerce. I can understand the uncertainty of services needed for their products after the initial sale but shouldn't any dealer/shop be able to handle maintenance and repairs? With the current policies, if I bought a regulator and then moved across the country, will I not be able to get free parts because I can't get to the shop where I originally bought the reg?

I understand the value of LDS's experience and knowledge (especially since I'm new) but its a biased opinion of a product that they're pushing. I usually try to do some research before buying anything and I like having a choice of buying from a place I trust.

I bought my mask, snorkel, boots and fins from LesiurePro after they were recommended by a friend. I went to their storefront in NYC and they were very helpful and extremely easy to deal with. I bought fins online before I knew their store was so close and I had to exchange them. I was able to bring it to the store and get credit back and buy the ones I wanted w/o any hassle. They let me try them on to make sure they fit comfortably and insisted on trying another size just to make sure of the fit.

Point is, I like having a choice where I buy stuff and service is part of it. My LDS just tried to push $3500 worth of crap on me (which I could probably buy for under $2000 elsewhere) and didn't even ask me a single question to better understand my needs. That's why I won't support manufacturers that have such draconian business practices against their (potential) customers.

[fireflock]

With the current policies, if I bought a regulator and then moved across the country, will I not be able to get free parts because I can't get to the shop where I originally bought the reg?


I think you would still get the free parts, as long as you could show proof of purchase from an authorized dealer and a record of yearly service.

The real problem with the AL/SP model comes if you move to a place with a bad local dealer. Say you want a new reg, but the dealer in the new town has dropped the ball multiple times. It's against the AL/SP rules for you to call the old dealer and have them mail you a reg. On the other hand, you are allowed to have a friend in the other town pick up the reg from the shop and drop it in the mailbox for you.

It's just silly, and anti-customer.

That policy has kept me from buying from shops in my state that I like and dive with (charters) but might not visit during the spring, fall, and winter. They have my credit card on file, and could easily drop something in the mail. Instead, I end up going to LP.

I don't have that problem with other brands.

[ScottZeagle]

And if you were an executive with AL would YOU want a forum here after reading this thread?

I sure wouldn't.

I am going to jump in here, just because it was "bad press" on ScubaBoard that originally brought me here.

In 2004, I had no idea that ScubaBoard exsisted until I recieved a call from a guy named Herman (ScubaBoard name.....wait for it...........................Herman!) who told me that there was some discussion regarding Zeagle on an online forum and that I should take a look at it.

I read it, registered as a user, and responded. I had to do a little apologizing, but after that I continued to monitor and be active in the forums. At that time there were no "manufacture specific" forums - just the general gear forums for BCs, Regs, etc. In retrospect, I miss those days, because now I jump on here, check the Zeagle forum, and jump back off....especially on busy days. Sometimes members will send me a PM with links to threads that they feel like I should read in the general BC section of wherever. (Thanks!)

I say all of that in order to qualify this - ScubaBoard has been great for Zeagle, and I like to think that by being here I have been good for ScubaBoard. I know for certain that our customers like being able to offer feedback, suggestions, kudos and complaints. I take the bad with the good, and try to use the bad as training for our sewing people and customer service reps.

All you need to do is look at the list of manufacturers who have their own forums to see how far it has come in only 5 years....

Just my 2 cents....

Scott

[Kevin Carlisle]

Bad thing tho is most companies do that. Aqualung, scubapro, diverite, salvo they all are just as bad. Heard more horror stories about scubapro but they sure make good products.

Thanks for the links. I've noticed many companies fight the evolution of their markets, especially with the increasing growth of e-commerce. I can understand the uncertainty of services needed for their products after the initial sale but shouldn't any dealer/shop be able to handle maintenance and repairs? With the current policies, if I bought a regulator and then moved across the country, will I not be able to get free parts because I can't get to the shop where I originally bought the reg?

I understand the value of LDS's experience and knowledge (especially since I'm new) but its a biased opinion of a product that they're pushing. I usually try to do some research before buying anything and I like having a choice of buying from a place I trust.

I bought my mask, snorkel, boots and fins from LesiurePro after they were recommended by a friend. I went to their storefront in NYC and they were very helpful and extremely easy to deal with. I bought fins online before I knew their store was so close and I had to exchange them. I was able to bring it to the store and get credit back and buy the ones I wanted w/o any hassle. They let me try them on to make sure they fit comfortably and insisted on trying another size just to make sure of the fit.

Point is, I like having a choice where I buy stuff and service is part of it. My LDS just tried to push $3500 worth of crap on me (which I could probably buy for under $2000 elsewhere) and didn't even ask me a single question to better understand my needs. That's why I won't support manufacturers that have such draconian business practices against their (potential) customers.

[PhilEllis]

For most business men of my age group, social media appears to be a part of the marketing message that you can't control. To a degree, that is correct. However, we have the great fortune of having guys like Scott (Zeagle) and Doug (Oceanic), and many others, that have decided that an upfront message that is a little bit out of control might be better than no message at all.

I have to admit.....I would need to think twice before I jumped in if I was a scuba manufacturer. It takes time, dedication, and honesty to do this. Some apparently feel they might be lacking in one of these areas. And, they are apparently happy with their current message in format over which they have control.

Wise old advice from a smart guy: If there is a question you don't want to answer, don't call a press conference.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

[mike_s]

Jack Welch, was CEO of General Electric when he was in his late 60's.

He once said "You can't be in Business today with, with Yesterday's Business Model, and expect to be in Business Tomorrow".


The economic marketplace changes. You can change with it, or try to survive holding on to yesterday.

[scubadada]

LeisurePro is an exception, they obtain products wherever they can and you can deal with the service and warranty question. Do you think large companies like Oceanic do not control the e-commerce price of their equipment, you're deluded.

Good diving, Craig

[mike_s]

LeisurePro is an exception, they obtain products wherever they can and you can deal with the service and warranty question.


since this is a thread about Aqualung, and you brought up Leisure Pro, what makes you think they don't get their product direct from Aqualung like any other LDS does?

:popcorn:

[scubadada]

since this is a thread about Aqualung, and you brought up Leisure Pro, what makes you think they don't get their product direct from Aqualung like any other LDS does?

:popcorn:

:dork2: They aren't an authorized dealer and don't offer factory warranty?

Good diving, Craig

[mike_s]

:dork2: They aren't an authorized dealer and don't offer factory warranty?




That doesn't have anything to do with where they get their product from.

They are the largest Aqualung dealer in the US. (authorized or not). You don't get the inventory they move by buying up scraps from supposed dive shops that are going out of business. (Besides if you've ever been to a LDS that's going out of business, they have problems months before where they don't/can't order inventory and usually not much great stuff to sale. especially not to sale in volume to stock LP).

[scubadada]

And your evidence for their source is.....? Give it up man, they are not an authorized dealer and do not offer factory warranty. You buy it, you deal with it. I have a special deal for you.

Good diving and purchasing, Craig

[Kevin Carlisle]

Winner by KO.. Mike S :rofl3:

That doesn't have anything to do with where they get their product from.

They are the largest Aqualung dealer in the US. (authorized or not). You don't get the inventory they move by buying up scraps from supposed dive shops that are going out of business. (Besides if you've ever been to a LDS that's going out of business, they have problems months before where they don't/can't order inventory and usually not much great stuff to sale. especially not to sale in volume to stock LP).

[Kevin Carlisle]

Do you realize there are a lot of Authorized dealers who will not repair without charging you for parts because you did not buy from them. That word Authorized is kinda over used.

And your evidence for their source is.....? Give it up man, they are not an authorized dealer and do not offer factory warranty. You buy it, you deal with it. I have a special deal for you.

Good diving and purchasing, Craig

[scubadada]

Good luck, to each their own.

Good diving, Craig

[mike_s]

And your evidence for their source is.....? Give it up man, they are not an authorized dealer and do not offer factory warranty. You buy it, you deal with it. I have a special deal for you.



I never said they were an authorized dealer....

as for evidence, Aqualung or LP it's going to post it's invoices to prove it. They'd loose all their kool-aid sales to LDS's and folks like you. :D


This ain't rocket science.... it's a pretty well known fact in the industry that they direct ship.




Winner by KO.. Mike S :rofl3:

:banana:

[deco_martini]

This ain't rocket science.... it's a pretty well known rumor in the industry that they direct ship.


Fixed that for you. I don't really care whether LP gets direct shipments from AL or not. However, I have never seen any evidence that it was the case. Evidence offered always winds up being based on people's perceptions about how much product LP moves or they think has in stock.

Might be, however, I've seen no evidence.

[mike_s]

like I said, I doubt you'll ever see either of them allow any "evidence" out.

but while this might be 'the smoking gun' (that would hold up in court), one example is that when Aqualung released the ACD feature on their first stages, Leisure Pro had them and was shipping them before regular LDS's could get their inventory in. (even large dealers).

[scubadada]

Thought folks might enjoy article from this month's Undercurrent:

Dive Gear Warranties: Always Honored?
generally satisfactory, with some annoying quirks

Is it true that if you buy a regulator over the Internet, the
manufacturer will not warranty the product? That’s a question
we often receive, most recently asked by subscriber CJ Zulaica
(Sacramento, CA).
It can be trickier when you buy dive gear online rather than
from a dive shop, but the first question to ask is whether the
seller is an authorized dealer of the product. If so, your gear
gets the required servicing for a specific period, and you’ll be
notified by the manufacturer if there is a safety recall. Many
online equipment sources are authorized dealers (we know of
no source falsely claiming to be an authorized dealer), which
will send you an official warranty registration card with a
product serial number that matches the one appearing on the
product you’re buying.
But there is a caveat. Aqua Lung, for example, fights online
sales of its products, even by authorized dealers. On its Web
site, Aqua Lung states, “Beware of any retailer that offers to
sell and ship our products for orders placed by phone or the
Internet. These retailers are NOT authorized Aqua Lung
Dealers. All authorized dealers must execute an agreement that
does not allow the sale of our products except ‘in-store.’ Many
Aqua Lung dealers advertise on the Internet, but they are not
allowed to deliver our products other than ‘over-the counter.’” If
they do, Aqua Lung won’t consider your warranty valid.
However the seller may establish its own warranty for buyer’s
protection. One of the largest online retailers, LeisurePro
in New York City, does just that. If a product isn’t covered by
a manufacturer’s warranty, LeisurePro provides its own warranty
which, they claim, “offers greater or equal protection.”
LeisurePro warrants “the equipment will be free from defects in
materials and workmanship for the same period offered by the
manufacturer.” In the past several years, all reports to us indicate
LeisurePro keeps its word. Reader Mac Lysett (Ten Mile,
TN) told us that “after only 30 dives, my Oceanic Geo computer
malfunctioned at night in my Cayman Brac hotel room,
with lights flashing and sirens warning that I needed a deco
stop at 45 feet. I had to pile towels on top of the computer and
shut it in the bathroom to get back to sleep. When I returned
home, I contacted LeisurePro and it gave me an RMA number
and instructed me to return the computer to Oceanic. Within a
week, a brand new Geo arrived and I’ve experienced no trouble
with it. Both LeisurePro and Oceanic were terrific.”
We recently asked our subscribers via our monthly Dive
News e-mail for their experiences with dive gear warranties.
They replied that manufacturers are honoring them promptly
and often going beyond the necessary fixes, like replacing the
old product entirely, sometimes with a newer, upgraded model.
Reader Larry Klumb (Lithia, FL) said that “two years ago,
the wristband detached from my Mares Nemo stainless-steel
computer; the plastic anchor had cracked and was not repairable.
I returned it to Mares in anticipation of getting a new
band but in fact, I got a new computer. Seems the screws were
so small and corroded that they could not be removed, so they
replaced it with a new Titanium Nemo computer.”
Even if your dive gear is beyond the warranty coverage,
some makers will give you a good deal on substitute or replacement
models. That’s what happened to Steve Thomas (Boulder,
CO) when his six-year-old Oceanic Pro Plus 2 dive computer
had glitches with the air pressure. “My dive shop couldn’t fix
the problem and Oceanic confirmed the problem didn’t have
a fix at a reasonable cost, so it offered to replace the computer
with the same model (rebuilt with warranty) for $150. A new
replacement costs around $700 so I felt that offer was very fair.”
Those Extreme Rules
A few readers shared their “learn from my mistakes” tales.
Dan Kopetski (Vancouver, WA) has an “Aqua Lung reg that I
lost the lifetime warranty on because I had a friend who owned
a dive shop service it. I later learned he was not an authorized
dealer. Now I have to pay for all parts and service instead of
getting the free parts and service that come with the regulator
under warranty.”
And keep that warranty schedule handy. Mary Martin
(Windermere, FL) says “I bought my Mares regulators at Divers
Direct three years ago; they told me I had to get them checked
every year to keep up the warranty. Unfortunately, I missed getting
them serviced within the year. When I did take them back,
14 months after I bought them, it cost me just over $100 and
I now have to pay every year. I would have thought that since
the regulators were serviced and there was nothing wrong, I
should get the warranty for life back but no. I missed the service
because I listened to wrong advice from a fellow diver and
it now costs me over $100 every year.”
When a Warranty May Not Cover You
While your warranty may be good at your old dive shop,
another may blow you off. Richard Moles (Davenport, FL)
and his wife bought Oceanic regulators while living in Illinois.
Then they moved to Florida. “When I took my regulators to
Divers Direct in Orlando last year, I was charged for parts,
even though Oceanic’s warranty states they are covered. I had
to fight with them but they finally refunded that part of my
money. I called several other authorized Oceanic dealers in the
Orlando area but none would honor the warranty, as I had not
bought them from their store. I called Oceanic to learn that
the warranty is voluntary and dealers do not have to honor it.
Oceanic would honor the warranty if I shipped my regulators
to California and back. By the time I paid the UPS fees, it was
about the same as paying for parts.”
We called Oceanic about this policy, and customer service
manager Mark Jones says that yes, it’s up to the dealer to
decide whether it wants to service a product bought at another
store. “If they do, they’ll service a product every 12 months and
charge for labor but not for the annual servicing kit. Some dealers
say, ‘I don’t want to run my business that way,’ and decline,
and we don’t tell them how to run their business. But we do
encourage it as a good marketing sales tool.”
So while some Oceanic dealers bail out of helping a customer,
here is a case in which a Scubapro dealer lent that
helping hand. Michael Cole (Edwards, CO) said, “Three years
ago, I bought a rental Uwatec Air Z Nitrox from a dive shop in
Colorado. The computer worked well for the first 50 dives, then
the tank pressure readings began to go all wrong. I sent it, via
Dive Odyssea in Ft. Pierce, FL, to ScubaPro in California, with
the understanding that I would pay for the repair as the computer
was purchased used. It was repaired at no cost to me. On
my next dive trip, it again failed and I returned the entire unit
again. Scubapro replaced the batteries in the transponder on
the primary stage, the batteries in the wrist unit and a failed circuit
board in the wrist unit -- again at no cost to me. Also, Dive
Odyssea would not even allow me to pay for the UPS charges
even though I had purchased the equipment elsewhere.”
So back to the question about whether online scuba equipment
sellers provide warranties. According to our readers, they
all seem pretty good about it. As you can see, there are quirks
in the warranty system but by and large, a diver can expect that
if he has a product he bought under warranty and he returns it
to whom he bought if from, the problem will be solved.
But if you have a contrary experience, let us know.
- - Vanessa Richardson

Good diving, Craig

[deco_martini]

like I said, I doubt you'll ever see either of them allow any "evidence" out.

but while this might be 'the smoking gun' (that would hold up in court), one example is that when Aqualung released the ACD feature on their first stages, Leisure Pro had them and was shipping them before regular LDS's could get their inventory in. (even large dealers).

No, that isn't evidence. I don't mean admissible in court evidence. I mean the basic logic/reasoning kind of evidence. What you have there is a highly subjective anecdote.

[keyshunter]

like I said, I doubt you'll ever see either of them allow any "evidence" out.

but while this might be 'the smoking gun' (that would hold up in court), one example is that when Aqualung released the ACD feature on their first stages, Leisure Pro had them and was shipping them before regular LDS's could get their inventory in. (even large dealers).

Obviously, AL learned a lesson from this faux pas. While any AL LDS who wanted the 2009 Titan LX had them months ago, Leisurepro still does not show it on their website. Last month I asked someone at LP when they would be available, and was told 30 to 60 days.

[mike_s]

or maybe LP choose not to buy/offer them until

a.) they sell out of their existing inventory at current prices (as they don't want to have to sell them for less0

or

b.) they are waiting on volume ordering discount.


(just possibilities...)

[LCromwell]

Thought folks might enjoy article from this month's Undercurrent:

Dive Gear Warranties: Always Honored?
generally satisfactory, with some annoying quirks

Is it true that if you buy a regulator over the Internet, the
manufacturer will not warranty the product? That’s a question
we often receive, most recently asked by subscriber CJ Zulaica
(Sacramento, CA).
It can be trickier when you buy dive gear online rather than
from a dive shop, but the first question to ask is whether the
seller is an authorized dealer of the product. If so, your gear
gets the required servicing for a specific period, and you’ll be
notified by the manufacturer if there is a safety recall. Many
online equipment sources are authorized dealers (we know of
no source falsely claiming to be an authorized dealer), which
will send you an official warranty registration card with a
product serial number that matches the one appearing on the
product you’re buying.
But there is a caveat. Aqua Lung, for example, fights online
sales of its products, even by authorized dealers. On its Web
site, Aqua Lung states, “Beware of any retailer that offers to
sell and ship our products for orders placed by phone or the
Internet. These retailers are NOT authorized Aqua Lung
Dealers. All authorized dealers must execute an agreement that
does not allow the sale of our products except ‘in-store.’ Many
Aqua Lung dealers advertise on the Internet, but they are not
allowed to deliver our products other than ‘over-the counter.’” If
they do, Aqua Lung won’t consider your warranty valid.
However the seller may establish its own warranty for buyer’s
protection. One of the largest online retailers, LeisurePro
in New York City, does just that. If a product isn’t covered by
a manufacturer’s warranty, LeisurePro provides its own warranty
which, they claim, “offers greater or equal protection.”
LeisurePro warrants “the equipment will be free from defects in
materials and workmanship for the same period offered by the
manufacturer.” In the past several years, all reports to us indicate
LeisurePro keeps its word. Reader Mac Lysett (Ten Mile,
TN) told us that “after only 30 dives, my Oceanic Geo computer
malfunctioned at night in my Cayman Brac hotel room,
with lights flashing and sirens warning that I needed a deco
stop at 45 feet. I had to pile towels on top of the computer and
shut it in the bathroom to get back to sleep. When I returned
home, I contacted LeisurePro and it gave me an RMA number
and instructed me to return the computer to Oceanic. Within a
week, a brand new Geo arrived and I’ve experienced no trouble
with it. Both LeisurePro and Oceanic were terrific.”
We recently asked our subscribers via our monthly Dive
News e-mail for their experiences with dive gear warranties.
They replied that manufacturers are honoring them promptly
and often going beyond the necessary fixes, like replacing the
old product entirely, sometimes with a newer, upgraded model.
Reader Larry Klumb (Lithia, FL) said that “two years ago,
the wristband detached from my Mares Nemo stainless-steel
computer; the plastic anchor had cracked and was not repairable.
I returned it to Mares in anticipation of getting a new
band but in fact, I got a new computer. Seems the screws were
so small and corroded that they could not be removed, so they
replaced it with a new Titanium Nemo computer.”
Even if your dive gear is beyond the warranty coverage,
some makers will give you a good deal on substitute or replacement
models. That’s what happened to Steve Thomas (Boulder,
CO) when his six-year-old Oceanic Pro Plus 2 dive computer
had glitches with the air pressure. “My dive shop couldn’t fix
the problem and Oceanic confirmed the problem didn’t have
a fix at a reasonable cost, so it offered to replace the computer
with the same model (rebuilt with warranty) for $150. A new
replacement costs around $700 so I felt that offer was very fair.”
Those Extreme Rules
A few readers shared their “learn from my mistakes” tales.
Dan Kopetski (Vancouver, WA) has an “Aqua Lung reg that I
lost the lifetime warranty on because I had a friend who owned
a dive shop service it. I later learned he was not an authorized
dealer. Now I have to pay for all parts and service instead of
getting the free parts and service that come with the regulator
under warranty.”
And keep that warranty schedule handy. Mary Martin
(Windermere, FL) says “I bought my Mares regulators at Divers
Direct three years ago; they told me I had to get them checked
every year to keep up the warranty. Unfortunately, I missed getting
them serviced within the year. When I did take them back,
14 months after I bought them, it cost me just over $100 and
I now have to pay every year. I would have thought that since
the regulators were serviced and there was nothing wrong, I
should get the warranty for life back but no. I missed the service
because I listened to wrong advice from a fellow diver and
it now costs me over $100 every year.”
When a Warranty May Not Cover You
While your warranty may be good at your old dive shop,
another may blow you off. Richard Moles (Davenport, FL)
and his wife bought Oceanic regulators while living in Illinois.
Then they moved to Florida. “When I took my regulators to
Divers Direct in Orlando last year, I was charged for parts,
even though Oceanic’s warranty states they are covered. I had
to fight with them but they finally refunded that part of my
money. I called several other authorized Oceanic dealers in the
Orlando area but none would honor the warranty, as I had not
bought them from their store. I called Oceanic to learn that
the warranty is voluntary and dealers do not have to honor it.
Oceanic would honor the warranty if I shipped my regulators
to California and back. By the time I paid the UPS fees, it was
about the same as paying for parts.”
We called Oceanic about this policy, and customer service
manager Mark Jones says that yes, it’s up to the dealer to
decide whether it wants to service a product bought at another
store. “If they do, they’ll service a product every 12 months and
charge for labor but not for the annual servicing kit. Some dealers
say, ‘I don’t want to run my business that way,’ and decline,
and we don’t tell them how to run their business. But we do
encourage it as a good marketing sales tool.”
So while some Oceanic dealers bail out of helping a customer,
here is a case in which a Scubapro dealer lent that
helping hand. Michael Cole (Edwards, CO) said, “Three years
ago, I bought a rental Uwatec Air Z Nitrox from a dive shop in
Colorado. The computer worked well for the first 50 dives, then
the tank pressure readings began to go all wrong. I sent it, via
Dive Odyssea in Ft. Pierce, FL, to ScubaPro in California, with
the understanding that I would pay for the repair as the computer
was purchased used. It was repaired at no cost to me. On
my next dive trip, it again failed and I returned the entire unit
again. Scubapro replaced the batteries in the transponder on
the primary stage, the batteries in the wrist unit and a failed circuit
board in the wrist unit -- again at no cost to me. Also, Dive
Odyssea would not even allow me to pay for the UPS charges
even though I had purchased the equipment elsewhere.”
So back to the question about whether online scuba equipment
sellers provide warranties. According to our readers, they
all seem pretty good about it. As you can see, there are quirks
in the warranty system but by and large, a diver can expect that
if he has a product he bought under warranty and he returns it
to whom he bought if from, the problem will be solved.
But if you have a contrary experience, let us know.
- - Vanessa Richardson

Good diving, Craig

Well a warranty is only as good as is the mfg. is to stay in business or as in these cases, my LDS went out of business and the only proof I have of my US DIVER regs. purchase is the year I know I purchased them. I know I filled out and sent in registration cards in 1975 but Aqualung doesn't seem to have them. Actually I never thought about a warranty this many years later. So I paid an authorized LDS in Austin to service them as it has been 15 or 20 years with no use or service. All hoses were good, but I knew they needed new "O" rings and diaphrams, seals etc. So for $218, 4 seconds and two first's were all serviced and ready to go again.