DIR on Weighing

[ScoobieDooo]

I have read GUE's DIR:F book several times. I have some questions about weights.

What are the DIR's suggested method(s) of wearing weights for a single tank rig? Weight belt? Weigh belt + BP? ACB+BP?

Weight belt UNDER harness or over it? I can't see anything in the DIR:F book that addresses these issues.

DIR represents a 'clean' low drag config - so how would ACB integrated weighst fit IN with their stance? Wouldn't the ACB system violate the 'uncluttered' waist stance/drag issue?

This is no 'troll' - I'm not not clear on all this...

????

[MikeFerrara]

Is this a troll?

[ScoobieDooo]

Nope...its not.

I can't figure out the ideal way(s) for weighting.

Here's my problem...

I have a SS BP and Koplin 6# SS STA. I dive dry with BARE CT200 undies on. I am 155# and had to have about 27# on me last weekend....

Trim sucked as well as buoyancy skills. I tried the OMS No-Sag Pocket on my rig (but only 1) so I naturally was too heavy on one side. I kept rolling on my R side. I ditched the pocket due to:

*I couldn't reach my waist D-ring
*Too much bulk

My tech buddy says I should add some weight pouches to my tank bands for trim, etc.

So, lets say 27# works out to be my ideal weight (or not).

Thats 27# - 12# on my back (between BP and STA). SO that leave me with 15# to put someplace.

Question IS, is my wait the ideal place? Or put some on tank bands?

Which leaves me with "What would DIR suggest?"

PS I'm looking at taking the DIR:F course in July - so I'm curious what DIR would suggest, advocate, etc.

Thoughts?

[King Kong Matt]

ScoobieDooo once bubbled...
I have a SS BP and Koplin 6# SS STA. I dive dry with BARE CT200 undies on. I am 155# and had to have about 27# on me last weekend....

I know this isn't a direct answer to your question, but it still might help...

27# sounds WAY heavy for a guy of your build. At 6'8" and more than a 100# heavier than you are, I am wearing the same weight in what sounds like roughly the same config...

6# BP
Trilam drysuit
200g undies

Seems like you should be able to take off a LOT of weight before you focus on where to put the weight that you do need to add...

Just a thought.

[MikeFerrara]

You didn't say what the tank was but steel might be better. Look at keel weights, a chanel weight or what I do since I've been to lazy to make a chanel weight, I thread some hard weights onto the upper cam band.

That should leave you with at most a few pounds to put on a belt or in the ACB. I wear the belt under the crotch strap. If I needed more weight on my belt I would use the ACB.


oops...you asked what DIR said. I don't know but this is what I say.

[Boogie711]

With what? Your OMS wings? The Halcyon wings you e-bayed? Your Mares BC?

I thought you couldn't take DIR-F with anything but DIR approved equipment now?

[ScoobieDooo]

Bob Sherwood has invited me to take the course and then form my own conclusions. He will be loaning me a Halcyon BP and wing to use for the course. No one said I was converting from OMS to Halcyon - I simply asked what THEIR stance was on weighting.

See, you confuse DIR:F skills with Halcyon. GUE claims that their requirement for wings doesn't have to be Halcyon - Dive Rite or even OMS non-bungee wings are acceptable.

What I am saying is, I want to take the course to learn SKILLS. After that I'll form my own conclusions. If I take this course and come away BELIEVING that a Halcyon wing would make me a better diver - then so be it. We all know a wing doesn't instantly turn a diver into a diving pro. Takes more than wing selection, don't you think?

At this point, a jacket BC won't work for what I want to do. When I add an AL40 for deco diving - how is that going to work with a traditional BC? When I was using the Mares, I wasn't diving with a tech diver whom was diving more than just recreational dives - and I hadn't even considered more than just recreational dives. Now, I have someone to learn additional skills from. And longer, deeper dives is what will be required to see the wrecks I'm after.

At this time, OMS is fine for me - but, it never hurts to have additional training. I never said that just because I was *looking into* a DIR:F class I was dropping OMS. So far, my OMS rig does everything that I want it to.

Owning Halcyon gear isn't a prerequisite for taking a GUE course, IS it? At least, Sherwood didn't suggest so. In fact, he advised trying it first in the course and then forming my own conclusions AFTER DIR:F.

Does taking a DIR:F course mean I'll subscribe to full DIR afterwards? Not necessarily. I've seen other posters who have taken the DIR:F course implement and use non-DIR equip afterwards still.

[ScoobieDooo]

King Kong Matt,
Anyway - that was just my preliminary dive with the new drysuit on...so I am sure that the more I experiment with all this I'll find myself going lighter afterwards.

I dive a single AL80.

[Dryglove]

ScoobieDooo once bubbled...

At this point, a jacket BC won't work for what I want to do. When I add an AL40 for deco diving - how is that going to work with a traditional BC?


If your having this much trouble now, dont be in a big rush to get into deco diving.

[ScoobieDooo]

Deco diving is a ways off...but even an AL40 rigged as a PONY would fit a BP and wing better than on a traditional BC.

Poor buoyancy skills and weighing is pretty common with new divers. Most of my friends state that after about 100 dives a guy will have his buoyancy down pat.

[King Kong Matt]

ScoobieDooo once bubbled...
King Kong Matt,
Anyway - that was just my preliminary dive with the new drysuit on...so I am sure that the more I experiment with all this I'll find myself going lighter afterwards.

Fair enough...

[MikeFerrara]

ScoobieDooo once bubbled...
When I add an AL40 for deco diving - how is that going to work with a traditional BC?


Just stuff it inside.:)

[ScoobieDooo]

Thanks....but I kinda like my 'waist freedom' now...

[Scrappy]

For starters you need to figure out where the weight needs to be in order to be trimmed out properly. If you can't sit in a horizontal position without moving then you need to move the weight. Also you need to know how much weight it takes to just sink with basicly an empty tank. A buddy can help you figure out where it needs to be. We go to a pool with soft weights and and hover in a horizontal position then have the buddy place the weights on our backs either high or low, depending on where they need to be.

Now once you know where and how much you can start putting them on. I have a 5lb P weight that I use on the plate and in a dry suit I use the halcyon weight pockets. They are as streamlined as you are going to get, I have used Abysmal's and OMS's pockets, both were the wrong shape and bulky. GI preaches a weightbelt under the harness for weight on the waist, which works great as long as you have the flat style weights. I hope this helps, but if you have more questions I will be glad to try and help.

Shane

[ScoobieDooo]

Sounds like a good idea...thanks.

[jonnythan]

I agree with Matt. I'm willing to bet that you could take 5 pounds off your belt and you'll be fine. Then you could take even more off.

I'm not even 5'9, roughly 180 pounds, and so far I've been fine with 22 pounds.. and that's with a neo drysuit and fleece undies. And that's with a mucho padded back inflate BC.

With about 13 or 14 pounds between my new backplate and channel weight, minus the ballast necessary to offset the padding of the old BC... and once the new trilam drysuit comes in... no more 10 pound weights sitting on my kidneys, or 24 pound weight belts yanking my hips down.

Thank god for that. I'll probably be able to make do with a pair of 3 pound weights on a weight belt.

I can't wait to get in the water.

27 pounds of lead, and you're 155 pounds? Try your bp, STA, and two four pound weights on the belt. Ten bucks says it'll at least be enough, and I'll stick by that wager ;)

[ScoobieDooo]

OK,
I will..thanks...

[ElectricZombie]

ScoobieDooo once bubbled...
What are the DIR's suggested method(s) of wearing weights for a single tank rig? Weight belt? Weigh belt + BP? ACB+BP?


Personally, the backplate is all the weight I require 95% of the time. When I do need additional weight, I just add a weight belt with a couple of pounds on it. I suppose if you needed a lot of weight, you could make a V-weight to fit in the channel of the BP. I don't like weightbelts so, I would try to come up with another solution rather than have a ton of weight on my waist. I'm not too fond of the ACB and don't own one.



Weight belt UNDER harness or over it? I can't see anything in the DIR:F book that addresses these issues.


When wet, they suggest over the crotch strap so that the belt can be easily removed in an emergency. Under the crotch strap when dry becasue if your weightbelt fell off, you would most likely get positive very quickly. This is one reason why a lot of people look to V-weights to avoid this all together. It's not a problem if the rig is balanced anyway.



DIR represents a 'clean' low drag config - so how would ACB integrated weighst fit IN with their stance? Wouldn't the ACB system violate the 'uncluttered' waist stance/drag issue?


GI3 beleives that the ACB system is not DIR. I would tend to agree with him because the ACB seems to create more clutter and does not really seem necessary. I think weighting issues could be solved more efficiently without the ACB by other means.

[ScoobieDooo]

I wear my weight belt under my harness now (I dive dry). I'm pretty sure I had 27# total on - it might have been 23# - we were adding and moving weights around trying to get it right...but the one pocket on my side made me heavy (naturally) on the R side, since it had weights in it and there was nothing on the L to counter-balance it. I was hesitant to buy two of the pockets until I had a chance to see what one looked like on the waist to see if it was going to be too bulky or not - it was.

[Richeod]

I tend to agree with what everyone else has been saying. I think that you are way too heavy. Figure out the proper amount of weight FIRST. After you get that dialed in put what additional weight you need on a belt.
Once your all set there, then try to get into the proper trim. Start with your knees bent at a 90 degree angle. If you tend to go head down straighten your legs out a little. If your heads up bring your feet a little closer to your ass.
If by moving your feet closer or further you still can't trim out properly then move some of the weight either from your STA to your belt or from your belt to your tank (trim weight on band etc.).

Hope that helps.

[nickjb]

I like to keep both my rig and me fairly neutral. For me that means a bit of weight on the backplate and a bit on a weightbelt (worn under the harness).

[MikeFerrara]

ElectricZombie once bubbled...




GI3 beleives that the ACB system is not DIR. I would tend to agree with him because the ACB seems to create more clutter and does not really seem necessary. I think weighting issues could be solved more efficiently without the ACB by other means.

I don't know about being DIR but if you have a small waist trying to have two belts around your middle is a pain. Diving wet I only have 4 pounds on my belt so I don't even notice it but if I dive a single tank and a dry suit I need more weight and only one belt can be in the right place. Using the ACB allows the use of only one belt which is the perfect number of belts to wear at one time.

I think DIR is different for guys as big as GI.

[Scubaroo]

I have the ACB20 (used to be ACB+) - it does not clutter the waist. The pockets are mounted on either side of the backplate, and when donned, are at your sides, not the front of your waist. The smaller pockets are streamlined. I can't speak for the ACB30 (larger size) - they look to be way too big, and if you need to carry more than 20lbs on your waist with a backplate setup, you need to step back and re-evaluate your weighting choices, like dumping buoyant AL80 tanks for starters. Choosing a steel tank over an aluminum tank can reduce your weightbelt by up to 7 or 8 pounds depending on the tanks.

[SteveKL]

While not a direct answer to the OP's question, I remember that when I started diving seriously enough to want to optimize my trim, I asked everybody I could find what weight config *they* used to try and sort out what I was doing wrong (or right). Toward that end, this is my current optimal (and probably permanent) configuration:

Halcyon SS BP, ACB30 pouches, 8# keel weight, ankle weights (4# the pair). Total = 42#. I dive OMS LP 112s (-2# empty, -16# full). Diving Concepts suit, thick Andy's undergarment over 1-pc. climbing fleece over polypro long-johns. I'm 6'3" and 195#.

At 2/3 empty I can hover anywhere up to 10 fsw with no air in my wings. If I drop *any* weight I can no longer hover at the end of the dive. I'm 14# negative at the beginning, and use both my suit and wings for buoyancy. If I'm on a single AL 80 with the same rig, I need to add a couple of pounds.

Just my 2 cents (and 42 lbs.)

[Scubaroo]

I was going to say that you're probably overweighted, but then saw you're in Alaska :) I guess those undergarments add up.