Legend LX or Apex?

[cnidae]

Well I'm faced with a choice on deciding to get Legends or Apex's. Any advice? I've looked at the guts of the two and see only a couple differences. Since the Legend was designed buy the guys at Apex and Apex is owned by Aqua Lung and I can get the Legends for about half the price I'm leaning that way.

[mars2u]

cnidae once bubbled...
Well I'm faced with a choice on deciding to get Legends or Apex's. Any advice? I've looked at the guts of the two and see only a couple differences. Since the Legend was designed buy the guys at Apex and Apex is owned by Aqua Lung and I can get the Legends for about half the price I'm leaning that way.

You really can't go wrong with either. I tested the Legend LX and the Apeks 50. Both were fantastic regulators, but I really liked the venturi on the Legend, so I bought it.
Breathes incredibly well underwater, in all positions, and there wasn't any bubble interference. The Apeks had a little b.i. but it was negligible in the long run.
Yes, you are correct, both are now owned by A.L.

[roturner]

cnidae once bubbled...
Well I'm faced with a choice on deciding to get Legends or Apex's. Any advice? I've looked at the guts of the two and see only a couple differences. Since the Legend was designed buy the guys at Apex and Apex is owned by Aqua Lung and I can get the Legends for about half the price I'm leaning that way.

My main reg is a legend Lx supreme. My buddy has an ATX200 as do some of the instructors at out club. I've tried them both and my experience is that the LX supreme breathes easier and drier than the atx200. Particularly inverted. The first stages are nearly identical.

R..

[Scubaroo]

...but isn't Apeks a UK company, still owned by Apeks?

Sea-Quest, the US distributor of Apeks regulators, is owned by Aqua-Lung.

[cnidae]

Scubaroo, Apex has been owned by Aqua Lung for I think around 2 years or so.

[cnidae]

Oops did'nt see that the legend can only be used for up to 40%. Now I'm leaning toward the apex's becuase I'm buying four two for back gas and two for stages.

[mars2u]

cnidae once bubbled...
Oops did'nt see that the legend can only be used for up to 40%. Now I'm leaning toward the apex's becuase I'm buying four two for back gas and two for stages.

FYI for those reading...Any of the newer regulators can be used for up to 40% per federal requirements without having to do anything special to them. If you want to use more, than you MUST have them O2 cleaned and serviced.
I think (per my LDS) that the LX can be used for over 40% if it's cleaned...but the intent was that it can be used up to 40% out of the box. It's funny that they advertise the 40%, since it's really a federal regulation and has nothing really to do with the manufacturer.

[techdiverKP]

Great regs, built in UK, but distributed in US by Seaquest/AquaLung now, however, they were distributed by Zeagle up until a few years ago.

I have a Zeagle Tech-50D, equivalent to newer ATX50's, that has been practically bulletproof for almost 5 years in Recreational use. I only wish I had gone with the Apeks regs for my tech kit. In fact, I may just change over if I can find a deal on some ATX-50's.

Anybody wanna buy some lovingly used Beuchat VX-10's? :D

[omar]

mars2u once bubbled...
FYI for those reading...Any of the newer regulators can be used for up to 40% per federal requirements without having to do anything special to them. If you want to use more, than you MUST have them O2 cleaned and serviced.
I think (per my LDS) that the LX can be used for over 40% if it's cleaned...but the intent was that it can be used up to 40% out of the box. It's funny that they advertise the 40%, since it's really a federal regulation and has nothing really to do with the manufacturer.

What a load of crap....

Why don't you cite the federal reg that sets this criteria. (Bet you can't.)

Also, you can use any reg up to 100% without doing anything special to them. I have and will continue to do this on a regular basis.

[Waterlover]

[QUOTE]mars2u once bubbled...
[B]

FYI for those reading...Any of the newer regulators can be used for up to 40% per federal requirements without having to do anything special to them.


Can you please give me the federal requirements for my reference. I have never heard anything of these before.

[DIR Tec Diver]

Hello

I have used the AL Legend, ATX50 and ATX200 here in Finland and none had any problems at all, and I have never seen any of them free flow here (constant 4 degree water). I went with the ATX50, but then switched due to the problems with the swivel, and now I use the ATX200. I think they are all very high quality and can't go wrong, personally I went with Apeks due to the field experience and the amount of reviews given by some excellent divers. Just my experience

[DIR Tec Diver]

Using your regs that are not 02 clean with mixes over 40% will definitely lead to a serious issue with the regs. They need to be stripped of contaminants that can react with the high oxygen concentration and lead to a very serious injury. Even if that does not occur the orings that are in the regs will not stand up to the high oxygen concentrations and will deteriorate extremely fast.

This is a big safety issue, and something that has been proven, so I hope people will think about that before assuming that it's ok. Getting your reg 02 cleaned is not expensive and better to spend a few bucks then have an accident.

[cnidae]

omar once bubbled...


What a load of crap....

Why don't you cite the federal reg that sets this criteria. (Bet you can't.)

Also, you can use any reg up to 100% without doing anything special to them. I have and will continue to do this on a regular basis.

It's your life, do as you wish. The legend LX failed at some tests when 100% was introduced, It just maybe Aqua Lungs way to come out with the same reg but with a green cover, I don't know. Some regs can't be used with 100% you need to consider adiabatic compression which will be determined by how the paths of the reg were designed. Apeks regs can be converted to 100% so using them out of the box at 100% may not be a problem but I don't know if the o-rings are viton out of the box, if not you would have to replace them for the reason dir-tech explained.

[mars2u]

omar once bubbled...


What a load of crap....

Why don't you cite the federal reg that sets this criteria. (Bet you can't.)

Also, you can use any reg up to 100% without doing anything special to them. I have and will continue to do this on a regular basis.

SSI Enriched Air Nitrox
Third printing 9/99
Page 33

"The 40% Rule"
"Two United States government agencies have done substantial portion of the pioneering work with Nitrox and the established the standards of practice...." (it goes on)
"What is the 40% rule? Simply stated, when any equipment item is exposed to gas mixtures with FO2's of no more than 40 percent, no special preparation, modification or maintenance procedures are required."
"....more than 40%, then they must first be O2 clean and O2 service rated..."

If forgot about this part although it doesn't give specifics as to which states:
"In some instances, local laws or regulations stipulate that all equipment exposed to gasses with O2 conc. greater than air be oxygen clean and oxygen service rated"

I'm curious as to which agency Omar is referring to that states you can use Nitrox to 100% without doing anything special to the equipment?
Bet you can't...lol :D
BTW...good luck in your diving...didn't mean to get you in the defensive mode...I was just referring to my Nitrox course info. I prefer to stick to the information given and my manufacturers specs...Thanks

[tyrell]

Hey

Im using 2 legend LX supreme regs for tech dives and recreational ones for almost 2 years and they r working great.

The Apex seems 2 work better for deeper dives (deeper then 30m) , in the shallow water it doesn’t perform well while the Legend works remarkably in any depth..

The Legend is 100% o2 clean from the manufacture.

i recommend the legend.
enjoy

mark

[cnidae]

tyrell once bubbled...
The Legend is 100% o2 clean from the manufacture.


Were did you get this info? The only reg Aqualung has that is good to 100% is the calypso.

[BigJetDriver]

[SIZE=3][FONT=times new roman][COLOR=darkblue]

I have four of the APEKS TX100 "flatheads" and find them to be truly excellent! They breathe easily at depth, and they are rugged.

The one note of caution is this, since Aqualung took over, they have made it hard to get the O-ring and filter kit needed to upgrade the regs to 100% O2 service. There are ways, but contact me off-line for info.

And regardless of what anyone says, if you use high-pressure O2 in a device not specifically cleaned and o-ringed for such use: "YOU GOT MORE COJONES THAN BRAINS!";)

[Chaos]

As far as I know, the Legend regulators (all recent Aqua Lung regs for that matter) are built with EPDM O-rings, not butyl or nitryl and certainly not Viton.

If Viton, a fluoroelastomer, oxidizes in a high oxygen environment a toxic gas is formed, so in a way EPDM is safer in breathing equipment even though the auto oxidization temperature is lower. My personal opinion, of course.

EPDM is oxygen compatible (despite the lower auto oxidization temp.), but AL regs are not delivered oxygen clean so you need to have them cleaned if you're going to use them with more than 40% oxygen.

Some interesting background info: Aqua Lung is owned by Air Liquide, one of the world's largest industial gas suppliers. I don't think a company like that would be mistakingly using EPDM in high O2 environments.

[BigJetDriver]

Chaos once bubbled...
Some interesting background info: Aqua Lung is owned by Air Liquide, one of the world's largest industial gas suppliers. I don't think a company like that would be mistakingly using EPDM in high O2 environments.

I don't believe they are mistakenly using EPDM rings. The last time I talked to an Aqualung rep, I was told that AL "did not approve of the use of higher than 40% O2 in those regs."

The reason for using the viton kit is, of course, to have the higher auto-ignition temperature with high pressure O2. If your EPDM rings start burning, you've got much more serious problems than the fact that the burning gases are less toxic than those from viton.=-)

[ScoobieDooo]

Go look at Rodale's 'Mother of Regulator Reports" October 2002. The Aqua Lung Legends scored perfect 20's on a scoring system from 0-20 based on performance, etc.

I own ATX50's but the Legend LX came in even better than the Apek's did in their tests.

The Legend LX breathed beautifully at all depths and cracking pressure was superb!

I'd buy a Legend LX in a minute of faced with a purchasing decision again....but certainly don't feel handicapped using my ATX50 in the least!

[cnidae]

Chaos once bubbled...
Some interesting background info: Aqua Lung is owned by Air Liquide, one of the world's largest industial gas suppliers. I don't think a company like that would be mistakingly using EPDM in high O2 environments.

I was told that this is why there not approved for 100%. Air Liquides standards for over 40% are supposeably much higher than the other companies.

[Chaos]

I know that they do not approve of their regs being used with over 40% O2, but the Calypso O2 uses the same time O-rings and it's perfectly suited for 100%. Now I know this may have to do with gas routing and adiabatic compression, but still, the materials are the same. EPDM in 100% O2.

[globaldiver]

I would go with the Apeks. It has a rock solid performance and reputation. It is easy to service, and is a superb regulator to have during cold water diving.

Sincerely

Anders

[marco]

I don't know if it is true but I have been told that is quite safe to use normal O rings for any 100% O2 reg. They should easily last one year, so if you replace all the O rings when your regs are serviced anually there is no problem. Manufacturers will never admit this due to liability problems if somebody waits too long to get their regs serviced and the O rings do fail.

But as I said this is waht i have been told so not sure if it is true.

[BigJetDriver]

marco once bubbled...
I don't know if it is true but I have been told that is quite safe to use normal O rings for any 100% O2 reg. They should easily last one year, so if you replace all the O rings when your regs are serviced anually there is no problem. Manufacturers will never admit this due to liability problems if somebody waits too long to get their regs serviced and the O rings do fail.

But as I said this is waht i have been told so not sure if it is true.

Admittedly, Marco, there is a lot of gobbledy-gook bandied about concerning the use of high pressure O2. If you go back to basics, however, some things will make sense.

Fire requires (1) an ignition source, (2) fuel, and (3) an oxidant. In the case of high pressure O2 use, we have plenty of oxidizer. The fuel can be almost anything, but in the pathways we are talking about, the lubricant is the most vulnerable, followed by the O-rings, then such things as high pressure valve seats. The ignition source is the energy generated by the rapid movemnt of the O2 molecules themselves.

While there are some few who argue, most agencies, organizations, and trainers agree that up to 40% O2, standard SCUBA regulators, tankage, and equipment is OK! Beyond that point is where things get touchy.

Since most nitrox mixing is done via the partial pressure method in which 100% O2 is decanted into a cylinder, this brings about the requirement for O2 cleaning the cylinder, and the use of O2 compatible O-rings and lubricants in the valve.

If you then attach a SCUBA high presssure demand valve (regulator) to a tank with a high O2 concentration, for deco purposes for instance, this brings about the requirement for O2 compatible O-rings and lubricant in at least the high pressure side, i.e. the first stage. Remember, the high pressure side is where you have the most chance of having the molecules moving fast enough to generate enough thermal energy to cause ignition.

Oxygen fires are really impressive, especially when metal parts of things begin to burn. It is easy enough to set things up properly, and to be safe. DON'T PLAY WITH FIRE, KIDS!!=-)