Disturbing 'advice' from DAN in Alert Diver

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Blackwood

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A while back, Bob (NWGratefulDiver) posted a thread about a questionable reply to a member letter found in Alert Diver magazine. Flipping through the latest edition (March/April 2009), I came across another such reply.

Rick Reimann from Washington related a story about missing his safety stop after an 80 foot dive, and returning to depth after surfacing to complete the stop. DAN Medical Information Specialist Marty McCafferty's reply contained the usual discussion that there is little agreement about safety stops.

Some physiologists suggest that one a dive reaches the surface without the safety stop, the benefit is compromised.
Though not a physiologist, I'm in that camp.

Others argue that following the procedure that you are your dive buddy used may still be of benefit.
Though not sure I've seen any physiologists suggest following that procedure, I disagree with it (for reasons to be briefly discussed below).

A point of agreement with both sides of the issue is that redescending to perform or complete a safety stop will certainly not cause any problems. [emphasis added]
While he may be right that some people think it's a good idea, the suggestion that there is consensus from all parties that it won't cause problems couldn't be further from the truth.

The procedure described is what's often called bubble pumping, and depending on the situation, it has the potential to cause disastrous problems.

A Safety Stop is generally short, on the order of 3-5 minutes. Re-descending after a dive during which bubbling has occurred (on an no-stop single gas profile, they're most likely to appear at the highest gradient, i.e. the surface, and they will certainly be at their largest there) introduces the potential for those bubbles to be compressed and passed from the venous side over to the arterial side in just enough time to re-ascend, turning a benign bubble into a potential type II neurological hit.


Like everything in decompression mechanics, the above scenario isn't a definite, but it is entirely possible. There have been cases (I don't have easy access now, but I'm sure if Thalassamania shows up he can help) of DCS hits in shallow water attributed to bubble pumping.

I encourage all divers (particularly new ones who are still learning to control their ascents) to remember what a Safety Stop is: a way to slow the ascent on a dive which theoretically allows a no-stop profile. There are procedures for re-descending to complete missed mandatory stops, but none are simply to go back down and do it. They all involve substantially longer stays.

If after a planned no-stop dive you feel that you need some more decompression time (due to a runaway ascent or a missed safety stop), stay out of the water longer. Bouncing back down likely won't help, and despite what DAN's Marty McCafferty says, has the potential to cause substantial problems.
 
Maybe there should be more 'dive community' training and emphasis on RGBM ascents. If you blow the ascent rate you can drop back to what is being taught now. (I'll surely take a hit for that statement.) I, for one, feel that there is entirely too little emphasis put on being able to control one's ascent rate. -The dive's over! Let's all get back on the boat!

This isn't a hijack, so what DO you do when you blew it???

some background mtl:

http://www.gap-software.com/staticfiles/RGBMOverview2004.pdf

RGBM | Precision Diving Blog
 
A while back, Bob (NWGratefulDiver) posted a thread about a questionable reply to a member letter found in Alert Diver magazine.

That older thread was very interesting (thanks Bob!). It is worth considering that the diver with the regulator problem also abandoned his buddy. I realize he was in a hurry (at 100' that tank won't last long!) but, in the end, he left his buddy behind.

I guess it is worth considering that if you don't want to get left behind, you better keep it close.


Back to this thread:

I was reading the Oceanic GEO Owner's Manual and came across this:

Transition Period

If you descend during the first 10 minutes after surfacing referred to as the Transition Period), time underwater will be considered a continuation of that dive. The time at the surface (if less than 10 minutes) will not be added as Dive Time.

This seems like it describes (if not recommends) exactly what we're talking about avoiding.

Richard
 
I encourage all divers (particularly new ones who are still learning to control their ascents) to remember what a Safety Stop is: a way to slow the ascent on a dive which theoretically allows a no-stop profile. There are procedures for re-descending to complete missed mandatory stops, but none are simply to go back down and do it. They all involve substantially longer stays.


-worth repeating
 
A safety stop is not a required stop. If for some reason the safety stop is missed there is no purpose in going back down to complete the non required safety stop.

N
 
. . . potential for those bubbles to be compressed and passed from the venous side over to the arterial side . . .
Absent a PFO, what is the mechanism that allows this to occur?
 
The information below comes from the Vytec Owners manual. It is the RGBM model.

"The surface interval must be at least 5 minutes for a dive to be considered
a repetitive dive. Otherwise, it is considered a continuation of the same
dive. The dive number will not change and the dive time will continue,
where it left off."

The Navy omitted Decompression information also gives you 5 minutes to get back to depth. The problem I've seen is for people to stay at that 15 foot stop for 3 - 5 minutes, without popping up to the surface. 20 feet will work for them, as long as the safety stop isn't mandatory.
 
Absent a PFO, what is the mechanism that allows this to occur?

I believe most other types of cardiac shunts would as well.

Either way, as many as 1/4 people have a PFO.

Oceanic:
Transition Period

If you descend during the first 10 minutes after surfacing referred to as the Transition Period), time underwater will be considered a continuation of that dive. The time at the surface (if less than 10 minutes) will not be added as Dive Time.

This seems like it describes (if not recommends) exactly what we're talking about avoiding.

Richard

I guess I'd have to see the context of that statement, but to me it looks like they are saying as long as you aren't out more than ten minutes, the computer will count it as the same dive. That's a far cry from recommending "re-descend for a short stop."



Re-descending bounces happen all the time without ill-effect. Again, "the above scenario isn't a definite, but it is entirely possible." If you don't care, go right ahead. But I think it's important to note it as a possibility.
 
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