which is harder, spear fishing or rod & real

Just curious what everyone thought about the difference in spear fishing and rod and real fishing? Is spear fishing as easy as going down and shootin a fish point blank? if not, why is it illegal in the great lakes? Seems there would be less people using scuba and snorkleing to spear fish than there is catching them on hook and line? Can anyone explain this?

Is spear fishing as easy as going down and shooting fish point blank?

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No, fish typically have a healthy fear of things that look like predators. A challenge to spear fishing is not looking like a predator. Between hook and line and spear fishing only one method allows an individual to choose a fish which fits into a legal size and make an attempt at harvesting.

The perception of many non-spearfishermen is that spear fishing is as easy as going down and shooting a fish at point blank. The hook and line fishermen outnumber the spear fisherman by a huge margin thus are capable of making the most noise and having the greatest effects on the writing of fishing laws.

has there ever been any attempt at making this legal in the great lakes?

I used to do a lot of frssh water spearfishing - it is not as easy as it looks. At one extreme you have 2-3 ft of viz and the fish check you out long before you see them. At the other extreme you have 30 ft viz and the fish never get close enough to shoot (large fish like Walleys, Sauger etc, not counting pan fish like bluegill, Crappie, etc that are too small to shoot).

In some cases you end up having to stir the viz up a bit or back into your own silt blind.

Fish like salmon, trout and northern Pike are very skittish and you rarely see them. Samlon for the most part also run very deep, and that produces its own challenges.

A purist will spearfish with freediving equipment only, but even with scuba it is not as easy as it looks givent the above conditions and the noise of a regulator. Then there is the predator factor. When you are one fish seem to pick up on it.

That is not to say a you cannot clean up and fill your limit, but hou per hour, dollar per dollar the hook and line fishermen will be more consitent more of the time. Taht makes sense as they can cover a lot more water in a lot less time. For example, it takes time to set up and hop off the boat on a prospective point to spear Walleye and they will either be there or they won't and if not it takes time to get out, move and get back in compared to a boat that will zip from point to point or troll from point to point and in the process cover much more water.

25 years ago in the Missouri river system around Lake Oahe we would routinely bag Walleyes in the 4-6 pound range and pass on the larger 8-10 pounders as the smaller ones were better eating. Now in the same waters 4-6 pound Walleye are rare - not because of the divers spearfishing (the numbers have alwyas been small) but rather because of the exponential growth in fishermen who have always out numbered divers by hundreds to one, and by the introduction of Salmon that competed for the same feeder fish as the Walley. Biologists insisted that the Walleyes fed shallow and the Salmon fed deep, but if they had asked the divers, we'd have told them the shiners moved bac and forth and were not separate shallow and deep populations. The end result was that the Salmon devestated the baitfish popluation with fantastic growth rates - until the bait fish ran out and then both Salmon and Walleye basically subsisted on a meager diet with slow growth.

The reality was that the plummet in size and numbers of the walleye population there was due primarily to huge increases in fishermen - and ignorant biologists driven by a tourist industry hot to maintain popular bag limits of large fish and also develop a new market in salmon fishermen. The result has been size limits with a minimum and maximum size limit that makes spearfishing very difficult (try to spear the fish - but be sure to measure it first.) That often leads to the banning of spearfishing as if you shoot it and it is too large or too small you can't exactly release it.

On the other hand as both a diver and a park ranger in the late 1980's I often saw the bottom littered with dead fish after tournaments where fisherment would constnatly cull the smaller fish out of the live well as they caught larger ones, even though the survival rate was very low. The survival rate is not much better for over or undersized fish unless very good cathc and release techniques are used (such as the fish never being lifted out of the water to remove the hook) as just the act of being caught tires adn stresses the fish to the extreme and starts a downward spiral resulting in death in many lakes and streams where food stocks are marginal due to poor mangement.

In that regard spearfishing is no worse, and infact is better as we don't pretend the fish will survive being caught and then being subjected to a photo op with bubba and his drunk fishing buddies.

But as posted above, fishermen have the numbers, the money, the noisiest lobbists to ensure they continue unihibited.

And if you spear walleye in lake oahe and they see a dive flag on a point for more than 10 minutes, you will have a herd of boats overhead trying to catch the fish you are trying to shoot and a few years ago they conveniently got the dive flag laws changed to allow then to run you over as long as they do it with an electric trolling motor - that you of course can barely hear, so be real careful when you surface.

bill-da-ho:

Just curious what everyone thought about the difference in spear fishing and rod and real fishing?

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With rod n reel, you haul up all kinds of fish that may be too short, out of season, or not eatable. Then throw them back and it may or may not survive. This is called by-catch.

With prudent spearfishing, there is zero by-catch.

Fishing whether by rod or spear is alot about luck and having great GPS spots and local knowledge. Neither method is easy.

I do A LOT of both rod and reel and spearfishing. It is true that an experienced spearfisherman can be much more selective. It is also true that fish are very skittish to SCUBA, except hogfish of course who almost seem to be attacted to bubbles sometimes. It is a very rare day when you can go to the bottom and find a good fish at point blank range. To answer your question, I think that hook and line is more difficult, though each presents its own challenges.

Excellent points made by all. Hopefully, no one takes offense to this...

Fishing (rod and reel) is usually more about drinking beer and hanging out with your buddies. If you don't catch anything, you still have a great time. You get to kick back, relax and just have fun. Spearfishing is an art. Whether on SCUBA or breath-hold, each has its own difficulties. And here on the island, if you don't catch, you don't eat (I don't know of anyone here that doesn't eat what they catch). I certainly feel that it take much more to be a successful with a spear than with a rod and reel. Having said that, I respect guys that can go out an consistently catch fish with a rod and reel.

Aloha

llqwyd-great post-I respect what you say and know much of it to be true, but I also know that many people take their fishing super seriously. In the gulf of mexico we sometimes have long runs to get to good fish, perhaps 80 miles one way. Running 80 miles in rough seas to get to where you think the fish are only to get shut out is no fun no matter how much beer you drink.

There is skill and art to both spear and rod and reel. Many times I have fished a reef or wreck without catching anything good. Then I put on the scuba gear and found great fish all over the structure and was able to get my limit with the speargun.

Extreme Dive Adventures Welcome To Extreme Dive Adventures Inc.

Depends on tooo many variables to give an intelligient answer about quantity.

In general though a spearfisherman will be more selective.

Beginning fishermen, using live bait can outfish most beginning divers. . . But as experience grows catch levels both grow equally. (opinion)

Arkansas biologists studied the catch rate for divers and rod and reel fishermen. During the study, they recognized that their state is surrounded by many national champion spearfishermen, and champion line fishermen. Allowing for beginner to champions, they allow diving spearfishermen 1/2 the limit of line fishermen. Several of their lakes have 10 lb. + Black Bass. And after a spearfishing contest (gamefish not allowed.) several past champions, and lots of us close, went back with rods and reels to catch some of these 10 lb bass. . . not one of us could catch these big bass. . . any one of us could have speared these (trophies) and no one did.

Capability is not the same as doing. Learning the technique of approaching fish usually teaches respect for the fish. . . Bass fishing where the culled fish is ripped off the hook, is OK because they are out of sight. Fish swimming around with hand prints showing in fungus, Jaws riped open with the fish left to starve. Most divers appear to respect what is going on in front of them.