which would you choose?

[James Lucas]

Looking to buy some gear and wanted some opinions of two different choices.
#1:
Used equipment bought in 2001, 2002 has only been in the water a
couple of times.
Scuba pro MK20 regulator with Scubapro G200B octopus
Zeagle Ranger BC with integrated weight system
(weights included 40 lbs, 5 & 2.5 lb increments)
2001 Oceanic Datamaz Pro Plus with compass (Nitrox compatible)
$800.00

#2:
Brand new equipment
Zeagle Escape BC with 36 lbs of soft weights
Aeris Atmos Pro Regulator with Mares Brigade Viper Octo
Oceanic Datamaz Pro Plus II with compass and quick disconnect
$1250.00

Thanks

[PerroneFord]

I wouldn't touch either with a bargepole.

[James Lucas]

Why is that PerroneFord? The reg. on #1 would definitely need to be rebuilt so that is another $120 or so

[PerroneFord]

Package #1:

Good reg, needs to be rebuilt. If it hasn't been serviced annually, the warranty is gone.

Zeagle makes nice products but the Ranger isn't one of them. Enough lift for doubles, which makes it sloppy for single tank diving. Intergrated weights should be outlawed.

Don't care much for recreational computers either. Generally unhelpful.


Package 2:

Better BC, but still overkill. What the heck does anyone need with 36# of soft weight?

Don't care for either reg.

I hate consoles. And quick disconnects... what for?

I guess I am just tired of seeing new divers buy gear that they sell off a year later because they wise up and realize they bought a lot of stuff they don't need, or can't grow with.

[bamamedic]

Looking to buy some gear and wanted some opinions of two different choices.
#1:
Used equipment bought in 2001, 2002 has only been in the water a
couple of times.
Scuba pro MK20 regulator with Scubapro G200B octopus
Zeagle Ranger BC with integrated weight system
(weights included 40 lbs, 5 & 2.5 lb increments)
2001 Oceanic Datamaz Pro Plus with compass (Nitrox compatible)
$800.00

#2:
Brand new equipment
Zeagle Escape BC with 36 lbs of soft weights
Aeris Atmos Pro Regulator with Mares Brigade Viper Octo
Oceanic Datamaz Pro Plus II with compass and quick disconnect
$1250.00

Thanks

Well, this is only my two cents, and I'm definitely no expert on the subject, so take it for what it's worth....

As far as the used gear goes...when was the last time it was serviced? Even though it was only used a couple of times (for a couple of trips?), if it wasn't properly cared for, there's still the potential for corrosion to build up inside it. Is this gear that's owned by a friend of yours, or is it being bought sight-unseen? If you don't have any pictures of the gear, and you don't know the seller, I'd be concerned about making sure it's in the condition the buyer claims it to be. You'll have to get the gear serviced before you use it, so mentally add that cost onto the package price. On that note, do you know if your local dive shop can service Scubapro?

Do you know if the gear fits you? Have you ever used a Zeagle BC before? Good things to consider before you plunk down that kind of cash :) Have you ever used a back inflate BC before? Most people seem to like them, but some people prefer a jacket BC. What kind of diving do you intend to do? The Zeagle Ranger doesn't exactly pack up light or small. If you're planning on flying to your dive destinations, you might consider a lighter, easier to pack BC. If you see yourself maybe getting into technical diving (deco diving, cave diving, etc), you might consider getting a backplate/wing/harness instead of a standard BC, and a wrist mounted computer with a gauge mode instead of an air-integrated console.

As far as the new package goes, you might consider making your primary and your octo the same brand, unless the dive shop you're purchasing it from services both brands. If you go with two seperate brands, it can be a bit of a pain to get them serviced once a year, because not every dive shop services every brand. I think the Zeagle Brigade is a bit less bulky than the Zeagle Ranger, so it might pack up a little smaller if you intend to fly. There are other Zeagles that pack up smaller, though, so if you see lots of destination diving in your future, you might want to look at the Zeagle Stilleto or the Zeus.

Truthfully, I wouldn't go with either package, because I prefer wrist mounted computers and a simple SPG instead of air integrated consoles, and I'd rather have a backplate/wing/harness instead of a standard BC. However, those are just my preferences, and if having a Zeagle BC and an air intergrated computer works for your style of diving, then that works for you! :)

Hope this helps~

[bamamedic]

Package #1:

Good reg, needs to be rebuilt. If it hasn't been serviced annually, the warranty is gone.

Zeagle makes nice products but the Ranger isn't one of them. Enough lift for doubles, which makes it sloppy for single tank diving. Intergrated weights should be outlawed.

Don't care much for recreational computers either. Generally unhelpful.


Package 2:

Better BC, but still overkill. What the heck does anyone need with 36# of soft weight?

Don't care for either reg.

I hate consoles. And quick disconnects... what for?

I guess I am just tired of seeing new divers buy gear that they sell off a year later because they wise up and realize they bought a lot of stuff they don't need, or can't grow with.

Um, yeah. I went out to my local dive shop, and happily plunked down $1200 or so for a back inflate Scubapro Ladyhawk BC, a three gauge console (aka "the brick"), a yoke reg and an AIR2, an air computer, and a black painted yoke AL80. A year or so later....I still have the reg (converted to DIN) and the AL80 (used as a "loaner" tank) but that's about it! The rest has been sold off for half of what it's worth, probably less.

If I had just waited about two months (and rented gear for awhile instead of buying everything right away), I would have discovered, that on Dive #7, I was going to fall in love with the Florida caves...and I would have saved quite a bit of money (instead of having to sell off all my brand new gear, and repurchase gear appropriate for the cave environment).

Even the best deal isn't a deal if it's not what you need.

[BuoyantC]

Mr. Lucas~

I can only speak to the Zeagle Ranger. It was my first bc for cold water diving. I ended up swapping mine with a friend for an older model that fit better. I have several bc's including a plate and wing (for you DIR fanatics out there!), but now even in warm water, I still end up using the Ranger most often.

I don't even know how old it is (15+yrs) or how many dives, but it is in near perfect condition and other than routine inflator servicing has never had any problem whatsoever. I dive with 8lbs. and just toss the hard weights in the pockets and don't bother with the bags (I use them for travel and boat dives). Maybe thats why Zeagle has produced the Ranger for so many years with minimal changes. A great product regardless what the "know-it-alls" say.

[Cave Bum]

If I had just waited about two months (and rented gear for awhile instead of buying everything right away), I would have discovered, that on Dive #7, I was going to fall in love with the Florida caves...and I would have saved quite a bit of money (instead of having to sell off all my brand new gear, and repurchase gear appropriate for the cave environment).

I agree! What gear you purchase depends on what kind of diving you're going to be doing and in most cases you won't know that until you get some experience. When I got back into diving in the late 90's, after a 30 year hiatus, I first bought all used (but serviceable) gear, then bought all new (recreational) gear and finally bought all new tech gear. I wish I had of eased into it and just bought a little at a time until I had figured out where I was going.

[ScubaSteve]

If ONLY choosing between the 2 options, go for the new. $450 is not worth the increased risk (maybe significant risk and mybe very little), the likely lack of warranty etc..

As for what everybody else is talking about, I agree sort of. You do not know out of the gate what kind iof diving you will end up wanting to do, and some gear is just not suited for certain types of diving. I would not worry too much about that. I would recommend you put both options on hold, and find a couple dive shops that can rent you the different types of equipment, and then decide to buy that which fits you best and makes you feel the best in the water (safest etc.). I still dive a poodle jacket because it is what I bought after dive 10. I have 300+ logged dives on it and ya know what? It might not have been the best decision to buy that BC, but I have loved every dive I have logged with it.

Too many people get too caught up about what other divers are wearing. The only thing that matters when you get rid of the fluff is:

1. Are they safe (both to themselves and to others)?
2. Are they enjoying themselves?

If you buy gear today that you have to replace in three years because you want to follow a "technical" diving path, so what. Replace it and hold no grudges. Keep the old gear, sell it to help pay for the new gear.....no matter what do not go through your diving career as others holding a grudge against your equipment. Enjoy every dive irrespective of what equipment you are diving.

So, I suggest you hold off with both, rent for a while and see what "just feels right for you right now".

[PerroneFord]

I don't even know how old it is (15+yrs) or how many dives, but it is in near perfect condition and other than routine inflator servicing has never had any problem whatsoever. I dive with 8lbs. and just toss the hard weights in the pockets and don't bother with the bags (I use them for travel and boat dives). Maybe thats why Zeagle has produced the Ranger for so many years with minimal changes. A great product regardless what the "know-it-alls" say.

Well.

1. The Ranger has changed considerably since I bought my Zeagle back in 1995

2. The Ranger continues to be popular with recreational divers making the jump to tech.

3. The Ranger continues to be hot on the used market when the divers from #2 figure out the Ranger won't let them do what they need to do or configure their gear the way they'd like.

4. The product is well constructed, it just seems to have a built in market of divers who buy it not really understanding their needs. Certainly there is a group of divers for whom it works well.

I just can't see the utility in a "Technical BC" that needs a chest strap, has no provision to mount a proper light, has a bladder designed for singles but has more lift than my doubles wing, has d-rings in all the wrong places, has more padding than a mattress, and costs more than a good plate and wing.

But that's just me.

There are 9 on Ebay right now for anyone who really want's one. Amazingly, all of the used ones are "barely used". Wonder why that is. The description of one says the cam bands can be lengthened to accommodate double cylinders. Try running that past your Adv. Nitrox or Cave instructor...

[Nemrod]

Neither with a 10 foot pole.

You want a nice set of cheap gear to use as a loaner set when you realize you really want pro level gear?

Here you go big dawg:

Fins, 25 dollars:

Oceanic Vector Fins reviews and discounts, Oceanic (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=VectorFins)

BC, non weight integrated, 125 dollars:

Aeris Caribe BCD reviews and discounts, Aeris (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=AerisCaribeBCD)

Computer, 150 dollars:

Aeris XR1 Wrist Computer reviews and discounts, Aeris (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=AerisXR1Wrist)

Mask, 60 dollars:

Mares X Vision Mask reviews and discounts, Mares (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=XVision)

spg, 57 dollars:

Brass SPG reviews and discounts, Dive Rite (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=DiveRite2NakedSPG)

Regulator, AL, Titan LX:

AquaLung Titan LX Regulator (http://www.leisurepro.com/Prod/UDRTLXR.html)

Later get an OxyCheq Mach V on a suitable plate with a Hog harness and original Scuba Pro Jet fins or Mares Quatros. BTW, www.scubatoys.com gives a 10% discount on many items if you post on their forum a few times.

N

[fnfalman]

James,

Where are you in California? SoCal? NorCal? Check with the local dive shops and see if they have various equipment for rent. Rent a regular jacket BC at one shop and rent a backplate/wing setup at another shop. Rent a regulator setup with air integrated computer for one dive outing and rent a regulator setup with SPG and non-air integrated computer for another outing.

Try them out and see what you like.

[Colliam7]

Looking to buy some gear and wanted some opinions of two different choices.
#1: ... $800.00
#2: Brand new equipment ... $1250.00Both setups are overpriced. As several of us suggsted in your other thread about choice #1 (used), a fair price for 8 year old gear, including a reg that was the subject of a recall, would be $450-550, and the high end is generous. $800 is ridiculous. As foir the new set-0up, a fair price would be closer to $950.

[Nemrod]

Here is another thing about weight integrated vs a belt. Use a XS type pocket belt perhaps. Put two XS pockets on your tank cambands. Say you are using 8 pounds of weight typically. You don't need it all on the belt. Put four pounds in the pockets on the cambands and the remaining four pounds on your belt. You will be much more balanced and the split load of weight is comfortable. Generally, I don't like putting more than 4 to maybe 6 pounds on the tank band and I am speaking more of the aluminum tank users. If you have a very negative steel tank it is a different approach because you will not need as much weight to begin with. Not well said, but a good weight belt like the XS pocket type or even a standard hard weight belt is cheap and never a bad purchase.

I essentially loath weight integrated systems but I did get my wife two new BCs, one is not weight integrated and the other is. For tropical warm water swimsuit and rash guard level exposure gear weight integrated can be functional because there should not be a large weight requirement to begin with. Once you begin to move into colder water and heavier exposure gear the concept of splitting weight between a belt and using a negative steel tank quickly gains great advantage IMO. Well, good luck to you.

N

[James Lucas]

Thanks all for the advice. While I am here in Central CA, I will be doing all cold water diving with a 8mm wetsuit and an aluminum tank so that is why I need 36 lbs of weight. I have looked around a lot at our local dive shops and maybe it is the area, but everything is much more expensive. I will plan on trying different setups out first before deciding on getting new gear. I did think the used gear was definitely over priced. Another question...sounds like a lot of people don't really like the console computers. Any thoughts on the benfits of both console units and wrist units?

[BuoyantC]

My wife loves her wrist mount computer Alladin. Me, I love a hose mount air integrated Suunto Cobra. My reasoning is I just don't like things on my wrists, and anything wrapped around your wrist can become lost. Quite often one doesn't even know it's come off. Luckily I spotted my wife's once when the strap failed. I also found one.

can't count the number of times other divers have forgotten their computers, or misplaced them after a dive. None of that happens with a hose mount. Just my opinion.

[Jim Lapenta]

Put the wrist mount gauges in bungee mounts. My DSS mounts are set up so that if one side should fail the other will still hold the thing on until I can fix it. I do have a console on one of my setups but I only use it in the pool. It has an analog depth gauge, spg, and compass in what is called a Navcon boot by Oceanic. Compact, and the depth gauge and compass are on the same side. Very useful for nav exercises. CHeck out Deep Sea Supply for a BPW option that will not cost you an arm and a leg, is infinitley adjustable, and therefore fits you. You do not have to try to fit it. ALso forget about an al80 if you can. try to find an lp85 or even lp95. You could also go with HP but I personally don't care for them as some shops will not fill to the rated pressure to get the full benfit of the tank. Want a couple HP80's for cheap? I have them.

Going with a BPW and steel tank will take a significant amount of weight off of your belt. DSS even makes weight plates that bolt onto the backplate for even more weight distribution options. As for the reg if buying online checkout scubatoys and leisurepro. The Oceanic Alpha 8 with cdx5 environmentally sealed balanced diaphragm first stage is 150 bucks! Throw a standard alpha8 octo on for another 70-80 or so and a brass and glass spg and you have a setup you can use anywhere for 300 or so. Just what I would do if on a budget and wanted stuff that would last me for years.

And if you want an oceanic computer get a seris xr1 nx or Hollis DG02 in a wirst mount and find a suunto SK-7 compass and put it in a DSS bungee mount. The comps at scubatoys are under 300 bucks. Heck I just looked and if you don't need nitrox you can get one on sale now for 139.00!!! Holy Crap! That's even cheaper than leisurepro. Dude, run, do not walk, to scubatoys! They even have a Diverite BPW package complete for 319.00!!!

I do not work for scubatoys, I have bought stuff from them and will continue to. My goal is to provide divers with advice that benefits them the most.

So new stuff from scubatoys:

BC 319.00
Reg 300.00
Comp 150-280
compass 40-70
total: all new stuff that you can really use 809.00-969.00

[ScubaSteve]

can't count the number of times other divers have forgotten their computers

There has been a lot of discussion about forgetting things and prep checks and things left in bags etc. I am not that experienced a diver with only 300+ dives, but one thing I do know for sure: Routine. Most of diving (simplified for this example) is simply training your brain. When I first started diving, I laid all of my stuff out head to toe when packing it to ensure I had everything. Today, I simply pack the bag, remember what went in, then stand there and touch my head (hood) and point to the bag with the hood and say "Hood". I point and say for most things that I need and while I may look funny, the only time I have ever forgotten something, was when my routine was broken and rushed. Scuba is something that requires time and patience to enjoy and that goes for packing and suiting up as well. Things can happen to anybody at any time (no matter what) but I sit firmly on the side of the fence that says routine and common sense can avoid it almost every time.

[fnfalman]

I will plan on trying different setups out first before deciding on getting new gear. I did think the used gear was definitely over priced. Another question...sounds like a lot of people don't really like the console computers. Any thoughts on the benfits of both console units and wrist units?

Where do you plan on going diving at? If you're going down to the LA area and dive Catalina Island, Hollywood Divers have backplate/wing (Halcyon brand, I believe) for rent. They also rent regulators with SPG or regulators with dive computers (console type or wrist type). Naturally, if you want to rent jacket BC then most any shop would have that.

Some used gears are pretty damn overpriced and some aren't, depending on the shop.

I have both the wrist mount computer and console computer. Frankly, that's the least of my worry. I can live with either one. The console computer has massive display and so easy to read at a quick glance. I keep it attached tight to my BC so it doesn't drag and it frees my wrists and forearms up so that when I go hunting for lobster and have to stick my hands in crevices, nothing to catch against the rocks. And it frees my forearm for a Riffe fish killing knife when I go spearfishing. Contrary to popular beliefs, fish don't die when you spear them. Usually you have to reel them in and stick the dagger in their brains. It's nice to have this dagger mounted on the forearm than elsewhere on the body or else you'll risk sticking yourself while resheathing.

The wrist mount computer and compass are nice for diving because I can look at everything with the twist of the wrist instead of detaching my console, bring it up to read and reattach it again.

[divingTim]

[QUOTE=ScubaSteve001;4291742]If ONLY choosing between the 2 options, go for the new. $450 is not worth the increased risk (maybe significant risk and mybe very little), the likely lack of warranty etc..

As for what everybody else is talking about, I agree sort of. You do not know out of the gate what kind iof diving you will end up wanting to do, and some gear is just not suited for certain types of diving. I would not worry too much about that. I would recommend you put both options on hold, and find a couple dive shops that can rent you the different types of equipment, and then decide to buy that which fits you best and makes you feel the best in the water (safest etc.). I still dive a poodle jacket because it is what I bought after dive 10. I have 300+ logged dives on it and ya know what? It might not have been the best decision to buy that BC, but I have loved every dive I have logged with it.

Too many people get too caught up about what other divers are wearing. The only thing that matters when you get rid of the fluff is:

1. Are they safe (both to themselves and to others)?
2. Are they enjoying themselves?

If you buy gear today that you have to replace in three years because you want to follow a "technical" diving path, so what. Replace it and hold no grudges. Keep the old gear, sell it to help pay for the new gear.....no matter what do not go through your diving career as others holding a grudge against your equipment. Enjoy every dive irrespective of what equipment you are diving.

So, I suggest you hold off with both, rent for a while and see what "just feels right for you right now".[/QUOTE



well Put!:)

[James Lucas]

Update: Besides all the advice to keep renting I went with option two, more or less. A few people suggested scuba toys, which is were I was looking to buy option two from in the first place. After speaking with them more I bought a Zeagle Brigade, Aeris A1 reg with Mares Brigade viper octo, and the Oceanic Datamax Pro Plus II. I got it all for just under $1000 and two years and 60 dives later still love the gear. The BCD has been great, very comfortable, and adjustable. Love the computer! For me personally since you need a gauge anyway I like to have it all in one place. I love that the Datamax is air intergrated as well and has a lot of great features. The reg and octo have worked great. I only thing I would have done different is buy a nicer reg, but for the price it was a great deal and if I upgrade to a nicer reg. I will have a great backup. Maybe I got lucky, but it costs over $65 dollars to rent gear in Monterey were I was living and I was diving every week. Now I am in Spain and the gear still works great.

[James Lucas]

Also I should mention the great service I received from Scuba Toys. I just bought some gear for my wife from them and there service is still great. All the guys there were really helpful in answering all my questions.