Price Club

[GTADiver]

I was talking to a friend up in Ottawa who advised he just got a bunch of gear at the Costco/Price Club. He got some Tusa, US D and Pro Blue stuff. The prices were great but it makes me wonder about the industry self-regulating. Someone could theoretically go into price club and buy all the stuff and go diving without ever taking a course. Let alone a DIR course. ;) Whats everyones view on this??

[pufferfish]

No different than buying gear from www.leisurepro.com
When I saw the brands you mentioned associated with Costco I just thought inferior goods, whether that is true or not. Kind of like people offering free air, it just creates the perception of an inferior product whether true or not :mean:

[cat]

Hmmm. No-one has ever asked to see my C-card when buying gear. Air fills, yes (all renting I've done included air so I don't know if I'd have been asked if I had rented regs but no air - have to ask one of my buddies what happened when he did this). Isn't the control on who gets gases how it's supposed to work? It isn't SCUBA without the Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus, no? Needs that compressed air. I bought a diving wetsuit back in 1987 to sail in. Snorkelers don't need a c-card.

pufferfish - it's not free air it's a cannily (over)promoted loss leader (and if he'd made that bet worth something I could probably get Maxxam to call him - though not necessarily to match the deal he gets on his quarterly testing down south). Your comparison to free sex on the other thread is oddly disturbing - I certainly hope you don't, umm, pay for it (Tsk, tsk :D ) or settle for "an inferior product".

[bwerb]

Since I work in this industry (Canadian retail and manufacturing), here's how the "Scuba Roadshow" works at Costco. In Canadian Costco's the vendor (scuba dealer) arranges to set-up a display of products for sale to Costco members. The vendor is actually affiliated with a local dive shop...in Vancouver, all Costco scuba roadshows are done through Great Pacific Diving. The guys from Great Pacific choose a selection of products they feel would sell and have an arrangement with Costco as to what the mark-up will be to offer "value" to the Costco member. These are typically beginners set-ups and/or snorkel gear. The selection of products is entirely up to the LDS based on what they feel will sell during a weekend or one week promotion. If you went to the Vancouver roadshow and then the Ontario roadshow, you would see different items as it isn't being purchased directly by Costco and distributed to the stores, it is more of a "consignment" arrangement.

In the US, I have heard both this set-up and Costco actually purchasing gear from the manufacturer or wholesaler for their stores. You can see how one is Costco acting as the buyer and in the other Costco is acting as a facilitator (for a percentage of course!).

Just thought you'd like to know how it works.

Brian

[Tom R]

I gotta call you on that, when the Costco road show stopped in Kingston they used a Local dive store out of Montreal. I didn't major in Geography but that's not even in the same province.

Tom

[bwerb]

Tom R once bubbled...
I gotta call you on that, when the Costco road show stopped in Kingston they used a Local dive store out of Montreal. I didn't major in Geography but that's not even in the same province.

Tom

I don't know what exactly you are "calling me" on other than the definition of "local". Since this is what I do for a living, I do know what I'm talking about. Since I've discussed this very roadshow with owner of Great Pacific, I even know about the specifics of this actual event.

The Costco Roadshow IS done via a LDS in Canada...not necessarily even a close local dive shop but a "local dive shop" in the broader sense of the word...in other words, unlike the rest of the products for sale in Costco which are purchased by the Costco buying office in Ottawa directly from the manufacturers and shipped directly to the stores or the distribution centers for sale. Costco decides on the items to sell, the cost and the mark-up. Costco owns the inventory and is stuck with it.

The Roadshows are all done through "independent dealer" as it were...if you like that term better. "A Canadian Scuba Shop" makes a deal with Costco to run a promotion. Costco does not order in product, it is left entirely up to the "local" company to decide the product selection etc...they are literally just renting space for a week...Costco gets a cut of what is actually sold. Make sense?

[seahunter]

Obviously my attempt at a bit of humor was lost on you cat.
We treat our "Free Air for Certified Divers!!" as an advertising expense (sort of a loss leader but with no associated cost to us). Both the divers and S2K benefit so any criticism of the promo is lost at this end.

I'd be happy (and surprised) if Maxxam called me for any reason. I'm not looking for a deal. If you followed the other thread you'd see that the cost factor was not mentioned until the very last post after almost 2 weeks of continuous chatter. I'm looking for good service. If I get good service and a better price too, great - but the good service is what's hard to find in Canada. Too many of these institutional-type businesses have a better-than-thou attitude and do not treat customers with any respect.
Let's up the bet!! Get a salesperson from Maxxam to call me to explain their pure air program (basically make a sales call) and I'll give you a complete tank service (Visual/Hydro/ air fill) free. If the sales rep is able to persuade me that Maxxam can do as good a job as Trace Analytics for a comparable (not necessarily as cheap but reasonable) price and I decide to change (which I will do under those circumstances - I'm a businessman), I'll give you a free 80 cf tank!
The rules: I must receive the sales call before the end of May; the sales rep must tell me the name of the person who arranged the call (that person will be the winner) so I don't get into a fight with a dozen readers over who got him to call. In the event (highly unlikely) that more than one Maxxam rep calls me with different names, the reps will have to decide who was contacted first based on their phone messages or emails and then tell me the name. Basically the Maxxam rep(s) will decide the winner - not me.
Sorry about all the rules, particularly since I don't believe anybody will bother to call from Maxxam, but I don't need to irritate anybody on this board over this issue. I can do that quite well on my own thanks!

bwerb (?) is quite right on the 'roadshow' issue. Costco acts as a front for a LDS. The store decides what to buy; Costco buys it; Costco decides the price to sell and supplies the space; they split the profit.
In theory, the LDS uses the opportunity to solicit new divers and customers. In practice, a clerk mans the diving booth and he could care less. He doesn't ask for 'c' cards; he doesn't try to sell anything other than the cheap item on display so the he can get back to reading his magazine. The LDS loses, the diver loses, the sport loses, etc. Only Costco wins and they sure have no interest in divers or the sport of scuba.
This is not a new issue. This has been going on for several years. In the GTA the store that works with Costco is Waterline. Personally, having watched the program closely for a long time, I can't believe it's profitable to the dive store. I do know it's profitable to me. We've had more than a few divers walk in with several boxes of parts (regs, octopuses, gauges) asking us to assemble them. Yep! From Costco!! Yep! We charge for the service! The issue is - what's he going to do with the gear??
We've had many divers come in and question the Costco gear program and we've been very gererous (we sell Tusa gear among others) but have certainly pointed out the many benefits to dealing with the LDS.

[Doppler]

GTADiver once bubbled...
I was talking to a friend up in Ottawa who advised he just got a bunch of gear at the Costco/Price Club. He got some Tusa, US D and Pro Blue stuff. The prices were great but it makes me wonder about the industry self-regulating. Someone could theoretically go into price club and buy all the stuff and go diving without ever taking a course. Let alone a DIR course. ;) Whats everyones view on this??

I think the gear sold at costco and DIR are mutually exclusive elements of the sport of diving...

What do I think of it?

Support your professional dive retailer. That's about the long and short of it.

Doppler

[Tom R]

Local to me would be in the same city perhaps, maybe even the same province. Well done to seahunter for charging a premium for service. If I read some of my agreements the warranty is more than likely not valid as Costgo is not a scuba retailer.

Tom

[bwerb]

I just checked out your profile...you work for NorthernTechDivers in Kingston...I ordered my DIRF fundamentals book from you guys. You have an absolutely outstanding shop and totally top knotch customer service!

If I was in your area, you'd be my LDS for sure! Last time I was in Toronto I actually looked at a map to see how far it would take me to drive and see you guys because you were so good to deal with. Not quite enough time...gotta book an extra day so I can come diving with you.

The whole Costco thing is really weird actually...I think they are going after the 80/80's who don't know any better and are simply glad to get any "unique" roadshows which can generate dollars through the 'till and have a "perception" of good value. Don't ever get me going on retail in Canada...I'll rant for hours... :D

[Scuba Duffer]

There is little to no regulating in this industry anyway. As was said - I too bought every piece of my equipment without ever showing I was qualified.

Dive Ops may ask to see your card - but that doesn't tell them much. Logs are better - but they can be faked easily. You can go from never diving to being a Master Diver in a week or so if you've got the time and money for the course and the dives. You may have a Master Diving rating - but it hardly makes you a Master Diver.

PADI and others really need to put more emphasis on experience instead of your ability to take a course - then you can talk about regulation.

My Wife and I just recently completed our AOW - when we were done - I said to her - "funny - I don't feel advanced" - probably cause weve been cert'd less than a year.

[FreeFloat]

Tom R once bubbled...
I gotta call you on that, when the Costco road show stopped in Kingston they used a Local dive store out of Montreal. I didn't major in Geography but that's not even in the same province.

Tom

When was that? I seem to have missed it.

[taz22]

Scuba Duffer once bubbled...
There is little to no regulating in this industry anyway. As was said - I too bought every piece of my equipment without ever showing I was qualified.

Dive Ops may ask to see your card - but that doesn't tell them much. Logs are better - but they can be faked easily. You can go from never diving to being a Master Diver in a week or so if you've got the time and money for the course and the dives. You may have a Master Diving rating - but it hardly makes you a Master Diver.

PADI and others really need to put more emphasis on experience instead of your ability to take a course - then you can talk about regulation.

My Wife and I just recently completed our AOW - when we were done - I said to her - "funny - I don't feel advanced" - probably cause weve been cert'd less than a year.

Some good points you bring up.

[jonnythan]

Scuba Duffer once bubbled...
There is little to no regulating in this industry anyway. As was said - I too bought every piece of my equipment without ever showing I was qualified.

Dive Ops may ask to see your card - but that doesn't tell them much. Logs are better - but they can be faked easily. You can go from never diving to being a Master Diver in a week or so if you've got the time and money for the course and the dives. You may have a Master Diving rating - but it hardly makes you a Master Diver.

PADI and others really need to put more emphasis on experience instead of your ability to take a course - then you can talk about regulation.

My Wife and I just recently completed our AOW - when we were done - I said to her - "funny - I don't feel advanced" - probably cause weve been cert'd less than a year.

Master, advanced, it's just all semantics to make you want to take the courses.

No one really wants more "regulation" in the industry. The government has no reason to meddle in the industry any more. They don't need to tell me when and where I can dive and how much to risk my life. It's not like driving where a mistake can take out a busload of children.

[seahunter]

Hear! Hear! jonny.
Thomas Jefferson was so right when he said "the best government is no government!".

I hope your glib comment about the current spate of scuba courses being just a ploy to get you to take more wasn't too serious though.

Surely you don't disagree that the more training you get and the more dive experience under supervision you take part in is great for both your enjoyment of scuba and your safety?
We ascribe to the philosophy that, since you want to go diving anyway, why not take a course to learn about some additional aspect of scuba and then take part in the supervised dives following the course.