I've been training toward tec and have had the opportunity to work with a couple of mentors. One of the things that kept being re-enforced was re-learning buddy skills. what was learned previously isn't good enough for tec diving.
I came up with a question that I have had answered 2 different ways. I thought I would see what you all thought.
The Scenario:
11 miles out, hooked to a wreck 220' down, there are several teams in the water with different dive plans. After your dive, doing your ascent, your buddy gets blown off the line. You know he has a lift bag and reel or spool. His lift bag has his name on it so the crew will know who he is. He has enough gas and everything he needs to do a safe ascent.
Do you go with him??
why?, or why not?
Thanks
O-ring
May 23rd, 2003, 07:39 PM
I NEVER leave my wingman..
Cave Diver
May 23rd, 2003, 07:41 PM
Yes, I would. You should try to never leave your buddy, and two liftbags, etc. are easier to spot than one. Not to mention the moral support.
medic13
May 23rd, 2003, 07:42 PM
I suprised you ask this from the basic point of view from your first class you are tought that its you and your buddie so my answere is we in this together away we go !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cave Diver
May 23rd, 2003, 07:42 PM
O-ring once bubbled...
I NEVER leave my wingman..
Iceman, you can be my wingman anytime.
O-ring
May 23rd, 2003, 07:43 PM
Cave Diver once bubbled...
Iceman, you can be my wingman anytime.
"Bull$hit...you can be mine"
Braunbehrens
May 23rd, 2003, 09:07 PM
Tavi once bubbled...
11 miles out, hooked to a wreck 220' down, there are several teams in the water with different dive plans. After your dive, doing your ascent, your buddy gets blown off the line. You know he has a lift bag and reel or spool. His lift bag has his name on it so the crew will know who he is. He has enough gas and everything he needs to do a safe ascent.
Do you go with him??
why?, or why not?
Thanks
One of the most important things we learned was not to fk the team. So yes, you would of course go with him.
The problem with the scenario imo is before the diver gets blown off. See the thread about jon lines.
I think in many situations you wouldn't even be able to go with your buddy, because he'd be out of sight pretty fast.
My take on it is that it's a bad plan to start with. I wouldn't do the dive.
AquaTec
May 23rd, 2003, 09:29 PM
I agree with Braunbehrens this is a bad plan to start with, asuming that there is a current. the stronger the current the worse the plan was.
however, i to would never leave my wingman! we will deal with the next set of problems as they arise as a team.
Doc Intrepid
May 24th, 2003, 04:53 AM
An experienced diver was lost recently in Scapa Flow under circumstances similar to your scenario.
Buddy did not go with him. Insufficient details to know why not. It proved fatal.
Individuals die. Teams survive.
Tavi
May 24th, 2003, 06:40 AM
I agree with staying together. :)
I had someone tell me they would stay on the line. that way they could tell the captain which way the buddy went.
Bad Plan?
Are you trying to change my scenario?? ;)
Perhaps there was only mild current at the beginning of the dive.
I agree that if the current was ripping it would be a no-go.
PS. I found the jon-line thread interesting.
Thanks for the replys
AquaTec
May 24th, 2003, 01:03 PM
if there is any current then the boat should not be tied into the wreck
crawford
May 24th, 2003, 06:01 PM
Which way to go? I would say that is pretty obvious, follow the current. If there is a chase boat on board, I could understand the argument of telling the captain/crew so someone could pursue. Divers have gotten blown off a wreck, and noone noticed, and if the current is that ripping, you can disappear fast.
Someone correct me if I'm flawed in my thinkin (and I know you will), but if there is a chase boat available, the smartest thing to do is notify the crew quickly so they can make a quick pickup. Otherwise you have to wait until all the divers are onboard and search for the diver, or call the Coast Guard to bring a chopper in for a search.
If there's no chase boat, then I agree, ride it out with your bud.
saturated
May 24th, 2003, 08:00 PM
Stay with your "wingman", if the currents ripping you may both hurry to the surface if you stay. Another set of eyes in a bad situation often provides sanity, I'd worry about the ride home when I got up safetly. Actually this post has got me thinking of an epirb for those days as I often dive in ripping currents.
anyone know of any epirbs rated to 250' or so?
thanks in advance
Braunbehrens
May 24th, 2003, 11:16 PM
Like I said before, gps, vhf, both waterproof. EPIRB is also a good idea. Pop em in a tube that will withstand the pressure, none are rated that deep.
When I windsurf I carry a VHF that is the size of a large cell phone. I tried it the other day from my boat and got a radio check from someone pretty far away, loud and clear.
If you get blown off, you need the GPS so you can tell them where you are!
EPIRBS take a long time until someone gets to you, and the search area is pretty large for a diver. However, if there is room in the tube, and no one comes back on the vhf...
I would carry the tube like a stage, or possibly like a second light canister.
I would stay with my buddy. The only way I could justify not doing so would be if the intent was to ascend, tell the crew, then go back down and deco. Not my preferred option, that's for sure, I'd rather follow my buddy.
BTW, I don't think an emergency kit makes jon lines safe...just safer.
DIR Tec Diver
May 25th, 2003, 06:35 PM
Many of these cases result in the finding of a dead diver or not finding them at all. You can read books such as Deep Descent, The last Dive etc to find some examples. I like Braunbehrens comment about going up telling the crew and returning for your deco. I of course believe in not "leaving your wing man" but I think you are more good to him by letting the support team know than assuming they will see a marker. This way, they can immediately track, follow or be on the lookout. The risks of not doing this are just too great. To quote one great diver "DCS is survivable, drowning is not"
VaJames
May 27th, 2003, 02:51 AM
DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
Many of these cases result in the finding of a dead diver or not finding them at all. You can read books such as Deep Descent, The last Dive etc to find some examples To quote one great diver "DCS is survivable, drowning is not"
I am not Trimix certified but I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have a better chance of surviving skipping stops on air than you do on mix based strictly on the density of the gas. That is simple physics. This is well over 150' so I would say that it is safe to assume this person would be diving mix. The main theme here is that theres a strong current so if you blew off the line you are only going one direction. The surface support team is there to watch for bags and for divers surfacing other than on the line. To make a long story short, piss on skipping stops and getting bent so bad a chamber ride isn't going to help. IMHO its riskier to ascend and chance a hit like that, than it is to just cut away. I am off the line and drifting with my buddy. Besides, you can't cuss him in sign language if he is by himself.
James
:getsome:
Braunbehrens
May 27th, 2003, 02:53 PM
VaJames once bubbled...
I am not Trimix certified but I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have a better chance of surviving skipping stops on air than you do on mix based strictly on the density of the gas. That is simple physics. This is well over 150' so I would say that it is safe to assume this person would be diving mix. The main theme here is that theres a strong current so if you blew off the line you are only going one direction. The surface support team is there to watch for bags and for divers surfacing other than on the line. To make a long story short, piss on skipping stops and getting bent so bad a chamber ride isn't going to help. IMHO its riskier to ascend and chance a hit like that, than it is to just cut away. I am off the line and drifting with my buddy. Besides, you can't cuss him in sign language if he is by himself.
James
:getsome:
I disagree that mix is a harder gas to deco from, which is basically what you are saying. While it is true that it is a "faster" gas, the body tolerates it much better. We don't understand everything that goes on during deco yet, but one thing is for sure, Helium is your friend.
I also think that if you go up and tell them to watch for your buddy's bag and then go back down you will probably be fine, as long as you don't spend more than a minute or so on the surface. That should be plenty of time. Maybe do a little more deco and hang out a few minutes at the deepest part to let the blood go all the way around once (5 mn or so).
Of course, these are just my opinions, I could be wrong.
Also, I still think it's better to stick with your buddy. I just wanted to clarify some of the mechanics of deco.
