Using back-inflation with students

[ZoCrowes255]

Ok, I'm an instructor (just got my rating) and I decided to purchase a Scubapro Knighthawk today. I know I am going to use it for my own pleasure diving but I am unsure about using it with students. I've always been a big fan of the Scubapro Classic (I am not trying to turn this into a BP vs Back-inflate vs Jacket) and it worked great when I worked with students as a Divemaster.

Does anyone use a rear-inflation with students and if so do you need to make any adjustments for surface work?

[jonnythan]

I think the AI in my OW class may have used a back inflate. Not sure, and my OW was only like two years ago.

Point is that the students won't really even notice.. and if they do, they won't really care. They may ask a couple questions about why it's different, but it's no big deal.

And if you dive something like the Mares Synchro Power Tech, they won't even know it's not a jacket!

[ZoCrowes255]

jonnythan once bubbled...
I think the AI in my OW class may have used a back inflate. Not sure, and my OW was only like two years ago.

Point is that the students won't really even notice.. and if they do, they won't really care. They may ask a couple questions about why it's different, but it's no big deal.

And if you dive something like the Mares Synchro Power Tech, they won't even know it's not a jacket!

The problem is not the students but the fact that without the flow-thru structure of a tradition jacket I am going to forced forward in the water. I am going to try and trim out the weight a little bit (I am teaching a refresher tomorrow) BUT I am a fairly skinny guy and I am negative in the pool wearing a half-mil skin. I do not want to have to wear weight (i usually use an empty weight belt) but I put two pounds in the trim pockets to see how that does for me.

One of the guys I dive with has been using his Knighthawk with students with little to no problems so I think it will work out in the end I am just concerned.

[Dryglove]

ZoCrowes255 once bubbled...
The problem is not the students but the fact that without the flow-thru structure of a tradition jacket I am going to forced forward in the water.

Are you talking about while your on the surface?

[ElectricZombie]

I use a Halcyon BP 27lbs setup when working with students. It has never created any problems. Some back flotations will tend to push you forward...you simply just lean back a little.

[Dryglove]

ElectricZombie once bubbled...
I use a Halcyon BP 27lbs setup when working with students. It has never created any problems. Some back flotations will tend to push you forward...you simply just lean back a little.

Also remember the the knighthawk has like 45lbs of lift so dont overinflate it on the surface or it will push you face down. Inflate it just enough for your head to be above the surface and experiment with how much air you can add before it tries to push you face down.

[Mverick]

I was going to say to slap a 4lb weight on the bottom of the tank if it's a AL80. Since they are usually bottom bouyant.

But if you're already neg wearing a skin. Not the best thing to do infront of students...

I use the Halcyon 27 also with AL backplate. With a HP100 steel and a 3mm suit. I need no weight. And it doesn't push me forward at the surface. I can swim it up easy. And I'm comfortable with it. Not really recomended though.

I did have the same problem with my Transpak 2 when I first got it. Then I quit inflating it all the way at the surface and added a 4lb weight on the bottom of the tank. Then I got the HP100 and didn't need the weight.

[LUBOLD8431]

I have been diving for ten years, and I have used a back inflation BC ever since i was certified.

I am an Instructor and I use a back inflation for that too. I hate jacket bcs. I will never wear one again. I have ZERO problems on the surface. Its all about weighting yourself correctly, and not over-inflating your BC.

by the way, I use a Seaquest balance...

[Padipro]

I purchased a Mares Syncro Tech, which is a back inflate, when it first came out, it did take a little getting used to at first. The day I picked it up from the shop I had a pool session and of course I couldn't wait to use it. I through it on, jumped in the pool and had exactly the problem you're talking about. It would push me forward and float me face down if I didn't keep a lite bicycle kick going while on the surface. It didn't take long to get used to it and I didn't have any trouble teaching but it was a change after using a jacket style BC for such a long time.

IMO you shouldn't have much of a problem. It'll be different then you're used to but as others have said, don't over inflate it, lay back and try the bicycle kick to keep yourself upright.

Scott

[ZoCrowes255]

lal7176 once bubbled...


Are you talking about while your on the surface?

Yep. That is my main concern. I should be fine with it once submurged but I spend a lot of time at the surface.

[Northeastwrecks]

I work pool sessions in a Halcyon Pioneer 18 and OW's in an Explorer 55.

On the surface, I inflate the BC enough to stay on the surface, then lean back. I can remain upright without any problem and without actually going over onto my back. I don't need trim weight.

FWIW, many of the students I work with end up purchasing back inflates or back plates and wings. We teach them the same techniques.

[WaterDawg]

hey guys.
I was just certified about 7 months ago. My Instructor used a Zeagle Ranger, and as a student I really didnt even noticed. But I wouldnt mess uop a nice KnightHawc in the pool, the bleach will mess it all up.

[Diversauras]

If you are comfortable in your new BC, and outwardly it looks like you're comfortable, then go for it. If there is some critical skill you have trouble with because of the gear than master it or change gear. Students are blank slates for the most part and your example will go far in etching the new surface, make it count.

[diverjane]

I've DM'd in a local shop that uses Zeagles. The students are learning anyway so I don't see any problem with starting with a back inflate. Afyer 2 years in the pool though my former blue/black Zeagle Ranger now is real bleached out. Dedicate something not so nice for the pools. The chlorines a killer on the material!

[ZoCrowes255]

diverjane once bubbled...
I've DM'd in a local shop that uses Zeagles. The students are learning anyway so I don't see any problem with starting with a back inflate. Afyer 2 years in the pool though my former blue/black Zeagle Ranger now is real bleached out. Dedicate something not so nice for the pools. The chlorines a killer on the material!

My main concern was working at the surface. I know what you mean about chloriene. I've had 2 BC's go from black to a nice shade of brown in 18 months. I recently found a way to pretty much protect my gear from chloriene damage though.

I used the Knighthawk with a group of refreshers last Sunday. It's going to take a little adjustment but I think I will do just fine.

[Wyno]

I bought a Back inflate BC during my classes and have had no problems on the surface. Plus the instructor used a back inflate. I think students should see all kinds of BC's including BP/wing before they buy and even be able to try them out before buying. If I would have seen a BP/wing a seen the benefits like I do now I would not have wasted my money.

[ZoCrowes255]

Wyno once bubbled...
I bought a Back inflate BC during my classes and have had no problems on the surface. Plus the instructor used a back inflate. I think students should see all kinds of BC's including BP/wing before they buy and even be able to try them out before buying. If I would have seen a BP/wing a seen the benefits like I do now I would not have wasted my money.

BP/Wings are still VERY fringe though. It's a good idea to make students aware of them though because they should be aware of everything they encounter in real world diving.

[Ron Brandt]

The shop I teach for a a couple of Flyt Pacs. There is the odd student that makes a comment about being pushed forward and I simply tell them to lean back.

Never a compaint at the lake as they like the weight integration.

Ron