Upgrading of Digital SLR Housings

I had an accident the other day.

First, I'd like to say I really love my Ikelite gear. I got my new second Ikelite arm, for my soon new Ikelite DS-160 (and dual eTTL cord ... well before the accident) to match my Ikelte ds-125 for use with my Ikelite housing for my canon 20D. I'm very happy with the products, and I've even upgrade my Ikelite wide-angle port from the small cheapy to the big Ikelite modular 8" one.

But tragedy struck. While packing for a dive trip, the the suitcase I carefully placed the housing on (with camera in it) that was sitting on a table slowly folded under the weight, with the housing and camera making a loud impact on the floor.

The result : a large compound fracture in the main front acrylic housing and one dead 20D.

Now a 20D in this day and age is worth about the same as a good triple espresso and piece of Bannofi. A 50D is where it is all about.

Again ... I want to commend Ikelite, because upon sending back the housing, they will fix it for the princely sum of some (*price omitted but let me say it is very good*) including new acrylic case, upgraded electronics, and reseating and refurbishing all the buttons and bits.

Now this price is ridiculously good value. I can't say how impressed I am with how I feel as a customer and how I'm being looked after in such way. I read the blurb on the Ike history and the family values. Kudos.

The painful part is that I have to buy another Canon 20D, which is a bit like you guys going out and instead of buying a blueRay player, spending your cash on a Betamax video player. I ask Ikelite, "Hey, if I need a new acrylic housing. Can't you take all the buttons and frames and such and reconfigure the new acrylic housing to a 50D? I'm happy to pay any extra for bits missing!"

Sad answer : "No, we don't offer an upgrade option from 20D to 50D."

No reason was given, no further comments or pleads prompted a reply.

OK, here's the problem! For Iketlite to offer this incredible service (and from my experience and what I read on here it IS incredible!) on fixing old equipment, they need you to buy their new stuff (Business and Money Making 101). Otherwise, every git with a 20D housing would accidentally back over it with their pickup and for the nominal specified price merely upgrade, and thereby save themselves the $1600 upgrade cost to a new housing. This would contrevene Money Making 101, Rule #1.

Now to our good U.S. compatriots, have some sympathy to your poor Aussie cousins. The exchange rate now means that a new 50D housing is about $2800 - 2900 in this exciting economic climate. This starts getting near the price of a Seacam being the A$ hasn't faired as badly against the Euro or pound.

My comment about "almost exemplary service" is based on presuming there is a customer need to upgrade housings (which last for years and years), to keep up with electronics which are outdated as quickly as the previously mentioned triple esspresso and Bannofi are consumed?

Am I disgruntled. Please no! I don't want to sound like I'm whining, just identifying a need or niche! As mentioned, the amazing value repair cost just really makes me feel like this is a company, a brand, that I want to support! But I feel there is an incredible environmental waste here where an obsolete housing will be created and perhaps never used because the cameras are no longer produced to fit it. I think it's sad this will end up in a garage like old mobile phones, laptops and printers that are so obsolete you can't give them away.

I don't think anyone would gripe about your making it financially worth your while.

nb - if anyone is interested in buying a mint condition 20d Ikelite housing please contact this address. (If I haven't got Ikelite offside)

Disclaimer : If a second hand 20D is as cheap second hand as I suggest where is the problem ... the gist is I'm ready to move forward, if the acrylic is that cheap a component of the whole setup, can't we salvage the expensive components when upgrading? It's about recycling!

Disclaimer 2 : Bannofi, a banana and toffi, caramel pie. No sorry, I don't have the recipe.

Ikelite truly has amazing customer service.

I like the humor in your writing style.

If I understand you correctly, you are concerned about creating an environmental issue because Ikelite won't take the existing buttons and controls from your broken 20D housing and put them in a 50D housing at no charge, or at least the limited charge they are quoting to repair/replace your 20D housing and then charge you for any new or replacement buttons/controls. Do I have that correct?

Is it possible that Ikelite intentionally made extra 20D housings so that if a customer broke one they could use their existing controls and buttons to replace their housing?

Ikelite will gladly update electronics on their existing housings. I had my 30D upgraded.

The price of all new housings would have to be increased to cover the upgrade you desire. In your upgrade policy theory, no one would buy a new housing except if they are new to Ikelite or lost/had stolen their existing housing. They would merely upgrade.

I think the upgrade program you refer to is for you to buy a new one.

I just don't see any way your upgrade economic model will result in a business being able to continue in business.

Does it make economic sense for you to send in your broken 20D for repair and then sell it as you mentioned? Is that fair to Ikelite?

I think Ikelite has great customer service and we should all be thankful they provide great deals like the one you have been offered to fix your broken 20D.

But, thats just me.

PS: As a comparison, maybe you could call Seacam and ask them their policy if you drop a 20D housing and break it.

Thanks for the reply jdcpa,

And thank you again for the compliment ... I entertained myself immensely while writing it!

OK, perhaps I was not perfectly clear.

Upgrade cost = new acrylic + labor + extra buttons + <insert profit>everyone-is-happy</insert profit>

I don't think I could have made it more plain that the repair customer service is exemplary. Similarly, I'm sure I articulated that the profit part for Ikelite is not only understandable, but fiscally essential so to not encourage people to abuse the offer (eg : git with the pickup)

But I presume this forum also has value as a customer suggestion box? This is not a flame of Ikelite, nor demanding they do what I demand. Just a friendly suggestion box note on how I think they could further improve what we all admit is already brilliant.

If I go to a quality restaurant and they have fresh lobster but not mornay I will ask if the chef will make it for me. This is a simple benchmark. They have a chef, who presumably is capable. So the response of "of course you may" with an additional charge to me is truly exemplary service.

The restaurant that replies, "only what is on the menu" may have excellent food, but they are not truly servicing their customers needs.

The "Go elsewhere" response certainly is valid for the service provider, but it doesn't equate to exemplary service IMHO.

Further, not being told why (though if the only upgrade path is really as you say to purchase a new RRP housing this becomes obvious) only shows lack of customer consideration.

I'm sure we've all had the girlfriend/boyfriend that we've asked a question to (regarding whatever) only to receive a petualant pregnant pause silence because they don't like what they're being asked?! And we all know we are being disrespected?! Yes, I asked about whether they have existing old 20D bodies, or if it merely was a standard case templated to different models. No adequate reply.

Is there nobody out there with a collection of old housings in the cupboard for outdated cameras who would not like to recycle them at the benefit of themselves and they company they endorse?

Back to the environment ... it seems to me the cost of the acrylic case (as per repair quote) is a nominal cost component. Surely then everyone, including the environment can benefit here?

I don't know Canon, but if a 20D is almost worthless, couldn't you get a used one really cheap? Then you'd have your old setup back for a very reasonable price.

Also, probably not all housing damages involve also destroying the camera. Like, if your camera wasn't sitting on the same table when it collapsed.

Edit: I just noticed that you also noted that you could get another D20.

I also don't think it would be bad to sell the repaired housing. If you upgraded with Ikelite they'd get the sale on a new housing, and someone else would maybe get their first Ikelite housing, and before too long hopefully also upgrade to a better camera with Ikelite as well.

I was at the Dive and Travel expo today and talked to the Olympus dealer. He flat out told me that they change the configuration of the cameras to keep customers buying. Changing configuration of camera controls means that old housings won't fit new cameras. Business 101 - keep em coming back. As far as I know Ikelite doesn't make cameras so Canon is the culpret. Although you would think they could manufacture a back plate for a 50D which would fit the housing for a 20D sell it at 2/3 rds the cost.

I recently bought an Ikelite housing for my A710 (Canon) and ended up buying a 2nd camera on ebay for it so that the housing doesn't become obsolete if I break my camera somehow. Just a thought.

Hey all and thanks for the feedback and reading my rantings. I have to say that the responses have been very insightful. Remember, my thread is more about obsolete equipment and succession, not about the exchange rate of a 20d.

<Joyous commentary>I just got back from Byron Bay Underwater Festival and got 2nd in my category! (yep! First loser) But very stoked with it being that I've only been shooting for 6 months.</Joyous commentary>

I was hoping to illicit an opinion from the Ikelite crew in this thread, but suspect that we're right on the money that providing an upgrade path isn't something that Ikelite wants to do for the obvious reasons of people abusing the service and effecting their future sales. But the silence is deafening.

I think all who've replied, you're probably right ... buy wisely, and cover your proverbial with stocking up on replacement parts. When you invest in this equipment, there is no upgrade path and ultimately the tech (aka camera) will be the downfall.

In closing I'd just like to say I bought a necklace from Tiffany and whilst wearing it diving and surfing it decayed and outlined issues with their design. I've had 3 free replacements thus far, and will always be a Tiffany advocate because of the service. I bought some Bose noise canceling headphones and have them replaced 3 times, once because of manufacturing issue, twice because on separate occasions while wearing them I landed on my head while snow boarding and doing silly tricks. While going to pay for a repair, Bose just said "Here take a new pair". Note : none of these by my request ... just these companies customer service policy. Blessed be thy Bose and all who listen with them!

Being that the second hand 20D and housing was my beginner entry into the market, I will be researching carefully to see who is the Bose and Tiffany of the housing market ... not just product-wise but in okyakusama (Japanese "Customer is King"). Like I've really tried to articulate ... the repair costs from Ikelite are commendable, but if I'm about to drop $Nn(k) on an upgraded set of strobes, housing, camera and unsundry I'd really like to know that there's some kind of continuity and that it doesn't all become a bin-job next year.

Sorry for the silence but I've been out of the country for the past two weeks. I'm on my second day of trying to catch up!

It's true all of our housing models look similar at first glance. However each actually has a unique set of controls. Digital SLR camers are installed so that their lens openings are all in the same place relative to the port openings. So controls vary in both position and length (plus bends in control shafts) depending on size and configuration of the cameras. Relatively small changes from model to model frequently mean different controls. In addition, TTL operation usually varies somehow with each new model which requires us to modify circuitry.

When you take into account the new parts that would actually be necessary to complete such an upgrade (case, electronics, controls and seals) and add the labor involved (in machining, dismantling, rebuilding, and processing the repair order) it is economically unfeasible.

Also it would be a tremendous feat to standardize the upgrade process between any combination of dozens of digital SLR housing models we offer. I calculate approximately 152 current possibilities even if you only upgrade within same make and line (i.e. Nikon D200 to D300). Still this number is small compared to the selection point-and-shoot digital still and video systems we also produce!!!

A much more elegant solution would be selling the original housing and buying new. I think it's actually more environmentally friendly (less energy expended and no waste of unusable parts) and probably ends up the same for the consumer cost-wise.

Of course things like this could be debated endlessly (I won't) but this is just intended to be a glimpse of our point of view........

Regards,
Jean / Ikelite
IKELITE Underwater Systems

Jean,
Thanks for the input...Maybe if we didn't lust after the newest..bestest...shinyest new toy every six months the manufacters wouldn't roll them out so fast....

Thanks for the reply Jean,

Disappointing as it may be, I guess that's what we must expect. I still think it would be interesting to recieve a quote and what the extra bits would cost to have that as an option.

If I remember rightly there are only 1 - 2 controls that have shaft bends. I would have thought the seated push buttons etc would be mostly standard or reusable?

Surely not $1500 worth of extra buttons (presuming the acrylic housing is the same cost)? NOTE : This is based on the "upgrade (case, electronics, controls and seals) and add the labor involved (in machining, dismantling, rebuilding, and processing the repair order) " already having been factored into my exceptionally good value, quoted repair cost. Seems quite a margin?!

Anyway, I'm not trying to get you into a debate and am very grateful for Iketlite's point of view. It's refreshing to see a constructive open forum!

PS - CheddarChick : blaspheme, shiny is good! Just listen to your tv! But seriously, I think that CCD tech is now getting close to where current cameras are going to start reaching their apex.

I was only considering replacing the camera if there was a viable option to given my housing's misfortune. Although I've only had my camera 6 months, it's in fact about 4 years old. I guess if I want to upgrade, EBay will be the way.