Just got back from another weekend on the mighty St. Lawrence River and am starting to notice an alarming trend... lots of small boats tied up to marker buoys with no boat minder... divers in the water below.
Coast Guard gets really angry at this and frankly, I think it's a pretty stupid practice. Anyone here make a credible case for leaving a boat unattended while its occupants go diving?
Doppler
Uncle Pug
May 26th, 2003, 10:40 PM
Doppler once bubbled...
Anyone here make a credible case for leaving a boat unattended while its occupants go diving?
...folks do it all the time here... but of course it depends upon the dive site and current as well as exposure to weather and rough seas that might pull an anchor loose.
Shoot... there have been times we tied the boat off to bull kelp. :D
But then there have been times when we had to swim a ways to get back too.
One time we had to swim to shore... hike the beach so we were up current from the boat and swim back out to it.
Doppler
May 27th, 2003, 06:15 AM
I call tell you are blushing UP!
Silverback
May 27th, 2003, 08:28 AM
[i]Coast Guard gets really angry at this...Doppler [/B]
Ah, you must be talking about the craft I saw tied up at the Jodrey on the Long Weekend. Not a sole on board
I've done this in Kingston, were we had no current or rough water, Conditions were at the best (even then I double tied the craft) but in the Lawrence.. and at the Jod. Strong current, heavy boat traffic, long in-water time. For once I'll agree with you Doppler Sometimes you just have to say "What the h#ll were we thinking"
Silverback
FredT
May 27th, 2003, 08:34 AM
Big or moving water this is a Bad Idea.
Way back in Dark Ages I had a boat stolen while unattended. This necessitated a 20+ mile swim in. (7.5 miles cross current, the current took us the rest of the way north) After that we dove in groups of 3, two down, one on the boat. The diving team members rotated to minimze gas uptake.
FT
Braunbehrens
May 27th, 2003, 04:14 PM
As long as you can swim to shore, I don't see the problem. I frequently do this. If the site is further out, I don't. I also put out a long current line just in case.
If the dive is more serious then you need support anyway.
100days-a-year
May 27th, 2003, 04:31 PM
I'd love to sat I had a credible reason.We 'll dive all if the following parameters are met.1 NO deco diving.2 No bad vis.3 No current over .25 kt.4.Rarely on live bottom or anywhere you have to lay line to remain oriented.
Grajan
May 27th, 2003, 04:44 PM
It is common practice in the British Virgin Islands. Generally conditions are pretty benign.
- Permanent moorings
- Other (dive) boats nearby
- Close to the shore
Security is not really a big issue - its pretty hard to hide a 40' sailboat - I guess you could lose a few things from onboard but people instinctively keep an eye out for one another.
Doppler
May 27th, 2003, 04:49 PM
Silverback once bubbled...
Ah, you must be talking about the craft I saw tied up at the Jodrey on the Long Weekend. Not a sole on board
I've done this in Kingston, were we had no current or rough water, Conditions were at the best (even then I double tied the craft) but in the Lawrence.. and at the Jod. Strong current, heavy boat traffic, long in-water time. For once I'll agree with you Doppler Sometimes you just have to say "What the h#ll were we thinking"
Silverback
Actually this was Memorial Day... a small RIB on the Jodrey and an AVON on the America (on Sunday). Both deserted. Couple of years back, saw an Avon anchored in the bay above the Jodrey with the engine running and no one abord! Everytime a motor yacht came by -- or a tour boat or freighter -- the bottom end would smash against the rocks. Yep, you have to ask...
Take care
caverkevin
May 27th, 2003, 09:42 PM
The last time I was on the Jodrey we left the boat while diving. The boat was backed into the cove. The boat was moored with two lines off the stern to trees on shore. A bow line tied into one of the line that are underwater. Leaving a small boat in a cove with three solid lines and the dives having really close shore line, no problem! Even with current that is running at the Jodrey.
Now, what I have seen and think is really stupid, is mooring to a wreck, several miles from shore, in windy conditions and leaving the boat alone. Way not a good idea. I don't even care if you put a second line down to the wreck or anchor. If you come up away from the boat, you would still be as dead as if it drifted away from you.
Happy diving!
Kevin
Stone
May 27th, 2003, 09:59 PM
Just out of curiosity, who knows how many divers have died because a boat was left unattended?
FredT
May 27th, 2003, 10:23 PM
I know of at least 4 off LA, and a pair died off Tampa a few years ago. USCG should be able to give you a "yearly average" number in the GOM, but it won't be 0. I seem to remember hearing about one or two incidents a year where divers are recoverd after loosing a boat and being able to climb up on rig. Several a summer are simply "they went out but didn't come back" type of incidents. Bodies are generally not recovered, and the boat is rarely found, or found swamped with nobody around.
It's really BAD NEWS coming up to nothing!
FT
JT2
May 27th, 2003, 10:27 PM
We do it all the time in the local lakes with no problems. Would I do it out in the middle of the gulf or great lakes, no, I would not!
Stone
May 27th, 2003, 10:42 PM
Fred,
Do you no longer leave a boat unattended?
FredT
May 28th, 2003, 12:03 AM
As a rule no. There are a few rare exceptions when conditions and dive site make it possible for a fast bounce dive. Generally the bounce dive would be less than 10 minutes, with no wind, current of less than .25 knot, but enough to give the boat a set on the moor, and FAC seas, with an identified alternate exit down current in easy range.
I got lucky once. No need to tempt Neptune further.
FT
cavanhills
May 28th, 2003, 10:41 AM
We used to abandon our zodiac quite often while diving the St. Lawrence River in the Clayton NY area. We would anchor the boat, put up the dive flag, and jump overboard for a dive. We were always confident that the boat wouldn’t go anywhere, considering we were divers and could do a good job of securing the anchor on bottom. That practice came to an end one day when we surfaced to find the U.S. Coast Guard waiting for us. Apparently a concerned cottager spotted an abandoned vessel out in the middle of a bay and called it in. There were 3 officers onboard and they were MAD. After tearing a strip off us and recording our boat registration number, they let us off with a stern warning. Racing down the river to find an abandoned vessel with 2 divers in the water, then having to wait for us to finish the dive, was something they were quite bitter about – and rightfully so. We were very lucky to get off with a warning, considering fines and boat confiscation are some of the Coast Guard’s options for dealing with people. This incident was pre 9/11, and from what I heard from an American diver in Alex Bay this year, the US Coast Guard have really beefed up their patrols in addition to having added 3 new boats to their fleet. I was down there diving 2 weeks ago and they were a regular sight on the river. As one officer said to us before leaving – Don’t be stupid. Is abandoning your vessel with no tender a dumb idea? Of course it is. Don’t wait until the Coast Guard hears about it, it won’t be a pleasant experience.
Braunbehrens
May 28th, 2003, 11:16 AM
If you look out over Monterey Bay on a weekend, you're likely to see about half a dozen unattended boats at a time. I've never heard of the coast guard taking an interest.
Doppler
May 28th, 2003, 03:02 PM
Braunbehrens once bubbled...
If you look out over Monterey Bay on a weekend, you're likely to see about half a dozen unattended boats at a time. I've never heard of the coast guard taking an interest.
Next time you go out, call up the Coast Guard and ask them what they think. You might get a surprise. Then again, they may say nothing. Up here, they do take an interest and they do enforce the rules... US and Canadian Coast Guard.
Braunbehrens
May 28th, 2003, 04:49 PM
Doppler once bubbled...
Next time you go out, call up the Coast Guard and ask them what they think. You might get a surprise. Then again, they may say nothing. Up here, they do take an interest and they do enforce the rules... US and Canadian Coast Guard.
Thanks, but in this case I prefer "Don't ask don't tell". At least now I can say "Oh, I'm sorry, everyone does this around here I didn't realize it's a problem". Thats' a bit different than saying "Well, I know you told me not to do this, but I did it anyway to spite you".
Doppler
May 30th, 2003, 03:47 PM
Braunbehrens once bubbled...
Thanks, but in this case I prefer "Don't ask don't tell". At least now I can say "Oh, I'm sorry, everyone does this around here I didn't realize it's a problem". Thats' a bit different than saying "Well, I know you told me not to do this, but I did it anyway to spite you".
But since you now know that it's countrary to regulations, doesn't that simply reduce your excuse to a bald-faced lie?
Perhaps you should say: "I recently learned that this behaviour is contrary to some coast guard regulations, but decided to go ahead and do it anyway because it's common practice and it's OK to ignore the rules if everyone does it."
You see, I don't think you'd be doing it to spite anyone as you suggested. You'll be doing it because it's a risk you feel comfortable taking... because you can swim to shore, according to an earlier post.
Just seems odd that someone so... well, anal... about chase boats and support divers, is so cavalier about some rather basic safe boating practices.
Just an opinion.
Doppler
Braunbehrens
May 30th, 2003, 04:58 PM
Why would I want to go and stir stuff up? Sounds like a dumb idea to me, no offense.
As for chase boats and so on, you are exactly right, it's a risk you either accept or do not accept. The amount of diving I can do is worth the risk of me losing my boat. If the risk is not one of losing the boat, but losing my life, then I don't do the dive....
jeffkruse2000
May 30th, 2003, 06:16 PM
What are these "rules" your talking about? As long as your not in shipping lanes what laws are you breaking. I have never heard of that before. Here in Washington St we leave our boats un attended frequently. It's not a problem (unless you don't dive at slack).
Jeff
200 Bar
June 3rd, 2003, 07:51 PM
[QUOTE]jeffkruse2000 once bubbled...
[B]What are these "rules" your talking about?
The only rule I can think of, is unless anchored at an anchorage you must maintain a watch....We hoist our dive flag, then dive...If the Coast Guard is waiting for us upon surfacing..WHAT THE HECK ARE THEY DOING WITHIN 300 FEET OF OUR DIVE FLAG !! I have at times of less than good vis, attached a reel to the anchor, so I can feel if it should drag and of course find my way back...
Barry
:hiding:
Doppler
June 4th, 2003, 08:12 PM
jeffkruse2000 once bubbled...
What are these "rules" your talking about? As long as your not in shipping lanes what laws are you breaking. I have never heard of that before. Here in Washington St we leave our boats un attended frequently. It's not a problem (unless you don't dive at slack).
Jeff
Jeff: I will try to get the actual number and wording of the regulations but there are two that I am thinking of.
One has to do with boats in a navigable channel. Can't be left without someone on board... think it says that person must be capable of managing the boat and communications. Not sure of how navigable channel is defined.
Second has to do with boats left "abandoned" and I am not sure it specifies anything about being in a channel, just think it's on navigable waters. Among other things, it can be argued that abandoned boats are distressed vessels and open for salvage...
Now, the Coast Guard has better things to do most of the time than to enforce these, but still they are in effect. And ignorance is no defence by the way. Especially true with Maritime Laws.
Of course the other thing is that Coast Guard -- and port police -- are constantly on the lookout for small craft that have "lost" passengers... Drunk fishermen falling overboard, etc. Just think you're opening yourselves up for all sorts of grief... well, you would here in the Great Lakes... maybe on the west coast everyone's laid back!
