Is safe second really needed?

[NČ - OČ diver]

Generally, I try to stay away from having an opinion on other divers gear, especially when they are far more expierenced than I am.

I believe that the configuration of YOUR gear is YOUR business, with some consideration to your buddy.

If your diving with someone at your experience level and is comfortable with your setup on OW dives, then enjoy your dives. I dive occasionally with the local dive club (most members have been diving 20+ years) and they dive with very little redundancy. No BC's (relying on drysuit), no octo's, nice simple rigs. Who am I to have an opinion on their configuration. On Sunday my buddy and I were at 135', and one of the good old boys (diving 30yrs) went by to whatever depth with one of these rigs, we were impressed with how clean he looked on the way by.

I also dive with newly OW certs (or am in the water with them) most weekends. Listening to them breathe underwater, I have the opinion that they would not be able to buddy breathe with another diver properly, as they are breathing to hard to give up an air source in a buddy breathing situation. I have had one OOA situation with a fellow DM candidate (he had a reg malfunction) at 120'. We were on our decent to a wall in current and cold water (46F). He grabbed my fin and walked up my body until he found my wreck hose (octo) and started breathing off of it. It took a few moments for him to catch his breathe as he had been holding it for a while. If we were trying to buddy breathe i would have been holding my breathe for quite a while waiting for him to recover from having no air. By having a extra regulator on we were able to manage the situation comfortably. In this situation it was definatly benefical to have an extra air source.

My point is: Your configuration is your configuration Find a buddy that dives the same way, and ignore the rest of us.

Compare safety with driving a car for instance.
Try to look it at a bigger scale. The more safety you can add, the les casualties you have globaly. Not every driver is a F1 driver as not every recreational diver is a diver from the navy. So the more safety you can add on every occasion you would safe lives. This counts not only for diving but for everything. :cool2::):)

[Thalassamania]

Compare safety with driving a car for instance.
Try to look it at a bigger scale. The more safety you can add, the les casualties you have globaly. Not every driver is a F1 driver as not every recreational diver is a diver from the navy. So the more safety you can add on every occasion you would safe lives. This counts not only for diving but for everything. :cool2::):)The problems with your analysis is that "safety" is absolute risk is not. Airbags reduce risk, unless you stay under 10 mph, or o faster than 90 mph or weigh less than 70 lbs or are shorter than ... you get the idea? The same is true for diving, an auxillary can add or reduce risk depending on the circumstances in which it is used.

[NČ - OČ diver]

The problems with your analysis is that "safety" is absolute risk is not. Airbags reduce risk, unless you stay under 10 mph, or o faster than 90 mph or weigh less than 70 lbs or are shorter than ... you get the idea? The same is true for diving, an auxillary can add or reduce risk depending on the circumstances in which it is used.

It does sounds just like i have been written. Without the octo you will add risk. And that in every envirroment you will be diving in. The octo still stays as an extra on safety. Regardless if you have a "more" risk diving environment. If you look at these answers at this tread it would be a neverending story. So everyone has his oppinion to say. That is where forums fore :blinking:

[pafindr]

One reason the octo came into use was because some people have gone into panic mode and would not share the reg that was provided by their buddy.

You can dive with whatever configuration you want. With or without an alternate air source, with or without a BCD, with or without a buddy, etc

But wouldn't it suck if you gave your buddy the only source of air and while in his panicked state you had no back up reg?

[Thalassamania]

No, there are any number of situations in which a second adds risk, if in no other way than adding additional failure modes and point without providing any significant diminution of risk. If something is extra and is of no use (e.g. shallow diving) then, net sum, it adds to risk rather than subtracts from it.

[NČ - OČ diver]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/new-divers-those-considering-diving/291750-cert-dives-what-pita.html

[caseybird]

However, I have one simple rule that I try to follow:

If I'm going to do something off the wall I'm the one that takes the hit - not some unsuspecting other guy.

I believe a thinking diver can accomplish their personal goals and consider the safety of others. If someone sets the other guy up for a hit they get a thumbs down in my book.

Wow, how nicely said.

[slackercruster]

I dive with a second as a minimum and with a pony with my cavern dives. I don't rebuild my regs yearly and wait until they act up, so I like the second. On trips I use rental gear, so again like a backup. I wear my second with necklace so it is out of the way.

Even recreational dives can have some advanced stuff. Have dove a couple of open water pass throughs where you had to pull yourself through the tunnel. Sure light was visible on the other end, but it was very tight. Glad I had a second.