Ikelite DS-51 Strobe VS. Ikelite AF35 Strobe

[Bflem55]

So I am between getting these two strobes for my Cannon a570is. Any input would be appreciated. Im going to try to purchase one or the other this week from leisurepro.com

[Ruminari]

I've been toying around with getting a strobe for my A710IS and would also be interested in everyone's opinions.

[howard4113]

For fully automatic operation the only supported strobe is the AF35. The DS51 requires a separate manual controller and the package will cost more. The DS51 is more powerful. IF you are comfortable using manual mode, you can set your flash to it's lowest setting and use any underwater slave strobe such as a Nikonos sb105. If you don't know what any of this means then order the AF35.

[Nemrod]

Neither, the Inon D2000 is the cat's meow and works great with that camera, I know becuase I have both.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/IMG_0592.jpg

The D2000 is a far more capable strobe than either of those two, not even close.

N

[fppf]

Wow, that is a strong opinion.

Inon does not list the specs that I find important when comparing strobes.
I would like to know what the rated light output is? How about cycle time?

I use Ikelite DS-125s for my DLSR, the best thing about ikelite is the company. They stand behind there products if you ever have a problem. Also, I see many professionals shooting with ikelite strobes.

[Nemrod]

Wow, that is a strong opinion.

Inon does not list the specs that I find important when comparing strobes.
I would like to know what the rated light output is? How about cycle time?

I use Ikelite DS-125s for my DLSR, the best thing about ikelite is the company. They stand behind there products if you ever have a problem. Also, I see many professionals shooting with ikelite strobes.

You asked a question but put in only two choices. If those are what you want by all means. The Inon outperforms either of those two by a significant margin. The "light levels" you ask, that is the Guide Number. The Inon D2000 has an underwater GN of 20 and a coverage of 105 degrees. This is significantly greater than either of those, it has a fast recycle and multiple modes including sTTL auto, manual and external auto and multiple preflash and no preflash modes and was specifically designed with these type cameras in mind as well as being fully compatible with dSLRs (using optical sync).

From another thread:

Underwater Camera Articles: Underwater Strobes Compared - our tests on the specs (http://www.backscatter.com/learn/article/article.php?ID=40)

Underwater Strobe Comparison Guide - Digital Diver Network (http://www.digitaldiver.net/strobes.php)

Model Ikelite DS 50 /////////////////INON D-2000, type 3
On the Web Ikelite ////////////////// INON
MSRP (USD) $ 400///////////////////// $ 539
Warranty Click for Warranty/////////////Click for Warranty
Energy 50 watt-sec. ////////////////////// n/a


Guide Number --17 (air) - 9 (u/w)/////////////////////20 (air) - n/a (u/w)
Color Temperature 5700 Ž° Kelvin //////////////////5500 Ž° Kelvin
Coverage 70° H ///////////////////////////////////100° H x 100° V
Batteries 4 AA Alk./NiCad/NiMH ///////////////////4AA Alk./NiCad/NiMH/Li
Flashes/charge 200 /////////////////////////// 420
Recycle time 3 sec. /////////////////////// 1.8 sec.


Weight (air) 600 g (1.32 lb.)//////////////////// 539 g (1.19 lb.)
Weight (u/w) n/a g (n/a lb.)////////////////////// 40 g (0.09 lb.)
Depth rating 92 meters (301 ft.)/////////////// 100 meters (328 ft.)
Pre-flash Compatibility Ignore or Mimic ///////////// Ignore or Mimic
Manual settings 1 //////////////// 13

Strong opinion? In exactly what category does the DS50 outperform the Inon D2000 or the amazing new miniature S2000? If you want to pay more for less be my guest. BTW, the S2000 is a miniature version of the already tiny D2000 with the same power and features except the external auto mode and has pricing of 439 dollars.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/ChisVintageDiverPics2009034.jpg
Canon A570IS, Inon 100WAL lens with dome, Inon D2000, Ikelite tray and housing

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Scuba%20Stuff/DSCF0022-1.jpg
Ikelite A570IS housing fitted with the Inon 165AD fisheye lens on homemade AD to 67mm adapter

N

[M_Bipartitus]

Of the two listed in the first post, I would go for a DS series strobe, as they are much easier to adapt to upgraded cameras. You may not want to hear it, but the A570's days are numbered. They are a great little cameras, I have one myself, but they are getting harder to find, so if you flood one your stuck looking for a new camera.

If you have no need for automatic exposure, the the Inons are a popular choice. If you do use Ikelite cases and don't use manual then avoid them.

I'll agree with many photographers that manual exposure is a great way to improve your photography (I do most of my photography in manual), but if you're not interested in investing the time to learn manual or you just want quick photos to remember your trip, it can be overkill. If you're underwater and something cool swims up, you don't necessarily have time to change the strobe settings for a specific distance before your cool subject swims off and leaves you with no shot, where as if you have TTL, you should be able to get an ok shot without any changes.

[Nemrod]

Post number 7?? huh??

I have an Ikelite case, the one in the picture, and I use an A570IS in auto, program, Av, Tv and manual--why do you say he cannot use auto with the Inon and a Ikelite case--I do---90% of the time??? The D2000 will operate as well in all of it's modes, sTTL, external auto and manual with the Ikelite housing and the A570IS. Why wouldn't it?

There are plenty of the A570IS on ebay, some still new in the box, I bought two extra units, one virtually new but for a tiny scratch and it cost me 12 dollars. New ones sell now for 120 to 160 in the box.

The Ikelite DS50, especially two of them is a fine strobe, if that is what the OP wants I am sure it will do well for him. It would almost take two DS50 to cover the same area the Inon D2000 covers but if not shooting ultra wide angle, would it matter?

Wife is skidaddling, to many sharks to count so she is headed for me:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/IMG_0927-1.jpg
Canon A570IS in auto Av, Inon D2000 in external auto mode

The Inon is THE choice for auto or manual.

The Canon DC-12 housing modified for the Ikelite tray and Inon AD adapter:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Scuba%20Stuff/DSCF0027.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/IMG_0615.jpg
Canon A570IS in auto Av with Inon D2000 in external auto mode

N

[fppf]

Well, you should not shot auto, auto modes are designed for use in air. Put them in water and who knows what your going to get. Shot manual, you control everything and get what you want. It takes practice but you get much better results.

Also you need to get closer to your subjects, sharks are gray and white, not blue.

[M_Bipartitus]

Post number 7?? huh??

I have an Ikelite case, the one in the picture, and I use an A570IS in auto, program, Av, Tv and manual--why do you say he cannot use auto with the Inon and a Ikelite case--I do---90% of the time??? The D2000 will operate as well in all of it's modes, sTTL, external auto and manual with the Ikelite housing and the A570IS. Why wouldn't it?..

I should have been more specific. I was referring to eTTL, or nikon iTTL on a possible future camera. Preferred to the simplistic TTL in the P&S camera that assumes the light is coming from the weak on-board strobe. Since the Inon cannot communicate with the camera's circuits, it can't work with these improved systems. I agree that the shots you post are good example of ok shots. In full auto mode you can get acceptable shots, but it is very hard to get exemplary shots in auto mode.

I agree that the a570 can be found on ebay today, but I suspect that finding the camera in a year or two will be much more difficult. If the original poster is looking for a strobe now he should look for something that can be used with a variety of systems should he need a new camera. I think you would agree that both the Inon and the DS series are more flexible to use with different systems compared to the AF35, which has limited power and no manual mode.




... In exactly what category does the DS50 outperform the Inon D2000 or the amazing new miniature S2000?...

A wire sync housing, or with a camera without built-in flash.

[Nemrod]

His camera cannot use hard wired sync as is the case with the majority of similar cameras. Many dSLR housings allow for an optical sync. If a hard wire sync is a requirement then that brings up a different set of strobes to consider. If future growth were the concern the DS50 would still not be my choice, one of the other Ikelite, YS or Inon strobes perhaps but of course more money. Thanks you for your explanation of what you meant. You mean that his camera cannot utilize TTL nor can the Inon D2000. He would need to shift to the much more expensive Inon Z240 or a similar YS strobe. With the DS50 he could use the TTL of a camera so equipped and add a second strobe for coverage, you have a good point.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Bahamas/SharkDive2009038.jpg

Taken by hired professional with Nikon D3 with dual (Ikelite?) strobes

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Bahamas/IMG_0809.jpg

Canon A570IS with Inon D2000, both in auto, same day and same place as the Nikon D3 in the upper pic

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Bahamas/IMG_0818.jpg

Canon A570IS with Inon D2000, both in auto, the colors here are failrly true, see his face skin color, the yellow harness and light gray hoses, exposure for the face is close and that was the target, shooting distance about 4 feet


My point is that it was implied as I understood the post (#7) the camera cannot operate in auto and the strobe cannot operate in auto in order to take rapid fire pictures. I am simply showing that is not entirely true, both the A570 and the Inon D2000 can operate in auto modes in an Ikelite housing or sTTL but of course not TTL as neither the camera or the housing he has are equipped for TTL. Now that I understand you meant TTL when you said "automatic" I agree with you, thank you for pointing out the differences between TTL and auto.



If you have no need for automatic exposure, the the Inons are a popular choice. If you do use Ikelite cases and don't use manual then avoid them.



If you're underwater and something cool swims up, you don't necessarily have time to change the strobe settings for a specific distance before your cool subject swims off and leaves you with no shot, where as if you have TTL, you should be able to get an ok shot without any changes.

LOL, ;), the blue cast could be removed with Photoshop, lol, the water had an overwhelming blue cast, but, that is how it looked to the naked eye, my forehead does not have a built in strobe, could be useful if we had that feature, maybe in 2M years we humans can work on that. I hate altering my photos with Photoshop, the original files, most are also RAW thanks to the hack.

Fact, with the Canon A570IS and Inon D2000 in Av and External Auto respectively or sTTL you can fire as fast as the strobe cycles and get a shot which is what I was doing, pretty much as fast as I could push the shutter button and the pictures demonstrate that capability even compared to the pro with the D3. The conditions were not good for taking one's time. I like to use the strobe for subtle fill, others like to strongly light the subject, I prefer a more natural look, others may vary and that is their style, not mine. Don't think in this regard there is a right or wrong but always room to do better in my case, lol, a lot better.

BTW, even in auto modes you can alter the exposure by using the plus-minus bias on the strobe or setting a different aperture from that set into the strobe.

N

[Nemrod]

For the OP, you might consider this miniature S2000. It is very small and would balance well with the camera and housing that you already have. Both the S2000 and D2000 can optical sync/slave with a TTL strobe such as the Z240 or---???--- whatever.

Inon S-2000 S-TTL Strobe [ino.417] - $449.00 : Reef Photo & Video!, The Underwater Photo Pros (http://reefphoto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=135_84&products_id=3513&zenid=e77eb7486ca73645d40e494aa6aba744)

The argument of TTL and hard wired vs optical and sTTL or other optical modes will go on and on. If I were to go to a dSLR I would get a Z240 as master maybe, or, just use the optical sync ports such as this housing has for the dSLR:

Sea & Sea RDX-450D Housing for Canon Digital Rebel XSi [ss.06144] - $1,399.95 : Reef Photo & Video!, The Underwater Photo Pros (http://reefphoto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=3451&zenid=c53746f9e637f9b6db457e13e1abb011)

Note in description that it has both optical and optional hard wire TTL sync--so--for growth--it is up to you to choose optical or hard wire sync. As to camera models not being available in a couple of years, that is true of all digital cameras, if one were to invest in a dSLR rig, they better buy two camera bodies---just in case--given the expense of the systems that would be a small additional expense--or just upgrade every few years, maybe get a second on the home mortgage, ;). If you make a living with your camera or hope to be a serious photog then that is a different can of worms to kick around.

Hope this helps.

N

[Nemrod]

Well, you should not shot auto, auto modes are designed for use in air. Put them in water and who knows what your going to get. Shot manual, you control everything and get what you want. It takes practice but you get much better results.

Also you need to get closer to your subjects, sharks are gray and white, not blue.

You are from New York huh? Whatever :lotsalove: Oh, the word is shoot, not "shot" but thanks, I enjoy a critical eye as it is always helpful to get quality opinions.

Adios, amigo.

N

[fppf]

What does my typo and location have to do with anything :confused:
And, yes I live in NY, but not NYC. That is on the other end of the state 7 hours away.
I could pick on your vintage equipment, did you need a dark room for those SHOTS as well? :rofl3:


I don't change the power of my strobe while shooting. I leave it on full blast all the time. I SHOOT wide angle, so I just control the minimum distance my subject is. Which is very close. Then while SHOOTING I have my aperture and shutter adjustments configured on thumb wheels next to my trigger. I can change 3-4 stops with one flick of the thumb. More than fast enough to adjust as conditions change. Your mind will start to "know" what settings you should be using.

[Bflem55]

I wish I could get the DS-125 or the inon strobe I just dont have more than 50 dollars right now and I def. want a strobe stup for my trip in July this is so frustrating

[fppf]

Bflem
Scope out these shots, take by my wife with a A640
The first shot used only custom white balance, no flash at all.
As long as your above 40 feet you can get great shots with just white balance. Just remember every time you change depth by 5 feet or more you need to reset. This also only works on a sunny day, clouds don't do well.

The second shot, same camera, but this time using the on board flash. She does not have an external strobe and shots great pictures (better than mine sometimes :shakehead:). She just uses the diffuser that came with her Ikelite housing. This eliminates hot spots and shadows from the housing port. But keep composer in mind when shooting, she will keep the subjects on the left side of the frame where the flash is best.

Keep this in mind though, she shoots everything on manual. And the "underwater" mode, forget it. They designed it for a pool and snorkeling. Oh, and those shots are all natural, we don't even own a copy of PhotoSham.

[Nemrod]

For the OP, to explain the sTTL mode with your Canon 570 and an Inon D/S2000. The camera is set to auto flash Forced and mode to Program. The strobe is set to sTTL. The camera strobe window is covered with an exposed piece of slide film. The slide film transmits only the IR signal which is what the D/S2000 needs to trigger. The camera is fooled by the Inon strobe and the result is that the camera exposes the picture using the D/S2000 instead of the covered built in strobe. Exposure is made lighter or darker to suit your tastes with the plus and minus control on the strobe up to two full stops. You can also use the exposure bias up to two full stops equivalent in the camera. Maybe not fully explained the best but the system works and there is no back scatter either. Inon makes a piece of film but I just use a piece of slide film (color positive) that has been exposed and developed and cut to cover the strobe window. I leave the slide film on the camera no matter what modes I am in.

The OP said nothing about moving from a Canon 570IS to a dSLR. The e/iTTL is all good but means nothing here unless the OP intends to move to a dSLR in which case everything is open. Not everybody intends to "upgrade" to an SLR, been there and done that, no thanks for myself.

The fact remains that with the P&S type cameras including the Canon A570IS the OP has, if they can afford the additional price, will get far more shooting flexibility with the Inon product or perhaps the YS product than saddling up with a manual only slug of a strobe just to have wired TTL available--someday--if ever--. JMO, YRMV.

Those are OK shots I guess fppf, if that is the look you wanted to get, great. Thanks for sharing them. Nice. N

[Bflem55]

wow totally confusing on that last post. for a novice at least.

[fppf]

Bflem
Don't get all bummed if you can't get a strobe off the bat.
Scuba is very $$$$, throw in a full set of camera gear and your first born has a bulls eye on them.

If I may suggest some reading material, get the "dSLR for dummies" book. I think its written pretty well for the novice. It will explain all the slang and what it does. While a point and shoot is not dSLR, they have many options that mimic.

[Bflem55]

Yes thank you I have used that camera setup for the last 2 years and have went on 4 trips and taken a lot of good pics I am just ready to take the next step and I thought the af35 would suffice

[tflaris]

So I am between getting these two strobes for my Cannon a570is. Any input would be appreciated. Im going to try to purchase one or the other this week from leisurepro.com

If I remember right the 51 offers TTL lighting control i am not sure about the other. Very nice feature to have if your camera supports it.

[Nemrod]

wow totally confusing on that last post. for a novice at least.

Never mind, sorry I tried to help you out. A good place to start would be the manuals that came with your A570IS, there should be two manuals, read them again. Of the people who have answered I am the only with the camera you have, but, oh well. Good luck with it all, hope it works out for you. N

[Nemrod]

If I remember right the 51 offers TTL lighting control i am not sure about the other. Very nice feature to have if your camera supports it.

His camera does not. N

[Bflem55]

I wasnt trying to be rude or anything Just trying to figure out the terminology

[Nemrod]

I wasnt trying to be rude or anything Just trying to figure out the terminology

It isn't you bud, it is me, my head is about to explode, I have a bad head cold, maybe it is H1N1, wake me up if people start turning into zombies. PM me if you have a question, I will do my best to answer. Thanks.

N