DM's/ instructors on vacation.

While on vacation, Do any Divemasters / instructors (no students in their charge) hide the fact they are indeed DMs / instructors to prevent being included in a possible Lawsuit against a dive op. should something happen? Has this ever happend to anyone here?

Yep- Not so much for lawsuits as for being an unpaid guide. It's to avoid the "Oh you are a DM, great, you instabuddy with this new, fresh out of OW diver who has no business on this dive and take him off our hands" problem. And before before anyone starts typing away about how we should be nice and help new divers, I do lots of it and love to. Invitations are always made to any class I DM with to dive with them pretty much any time, all have my cell numbers but when I have traveled many miles and spend a lot of money, darn right I am selfish. I came to dive and get the most out of my tank, not to spend 30 stressed minutes watching over someone I don't even know when I had planned to spend 60 minutes of quality time with my camera.

The way I understand it ,if an accident occurs on a boat the lawyers get everybodys name during the discovery period..Then it starts...I was on a boat,as a customer only,where there was an accident. I was not diving with the victim,I was diving alone,as is the norm on many NE boats..I was named in the suit..Did it get anywhere?? Nope.Did not even have to settle out of court. Case was dropped..Was I worried about it? Nope..I knew that I had no responsibilty on what happened and it was up the the individual diver and his buddy,if he choose to dive with one,to care for themselves on that type of dive.
If I am asked to dive with an "instant buddy" I say sure,I charge $200. for the dive and expect my costs that I paid to be on the boat to be reimbursed to me.That always puts an end to the discussion...

We were specifically told in PADI Rescue Diver training to never show the RD card as proof of cert for this exact reason.

Personally, I don't know that I could refuse to help someone in distress regardless of potential liability. I guess that's why I'm a lousy lawyer.

When asked to provide a C card, I usually provide my rescue card.

Just trolling or asking for a serious response? This has been discussed at quite some length on several (numerous?) threads.

Quick substantive answer:

a. Yes, some "Pros" do [attempt to] hide their status in order to limit liability or being asked to babysit.

b. In the event of an incident which leads to a lawsuit, it is highly likely that such attempt to hide "professional status" will be ineffective due to the lawyer's due diligence in discovery -- that is, the lawyer should/will do a background check on anyone involved and discover the true level of training.

c. Anyone's level of "due care" [legaleze for how you are judged in responding in an incident] is related to one's training. An ER doc is held to a higher standard of "due care" when she helps at an accident scene than a "mere civilian" -- but maybe not as high a standard as a para-medic. In a scuba incident, a professional (DM/Instructor) will be held to a higher standard than a nubie OW diver just because of the differences in their training.

Note -- please feel free to agree or disagree with this analysis but PLEASE do not offer legal advice JUST BECAUSE you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night! And for the record, I stayed in a Comfort Inn last night but I did go to law school 35 years ago.

Peter Guy:

Just trolling or asking for a serious response? This has been discussed at quite some length on several (numerous?) threads.

Quick substantive answer:

a. Yes, some "Pros" do [attempt to] hide their status in order to limit liability or being asked to babysit.

b. In the event of an incident which leads to a lawsuit, it is highly likely that such attempt to hide "professional status" will be ineffective due to the lawyer's due diligence in discovery -- that is, the lawyer should/will do a background check on anyone involved and discover the true level of training.

c. Anyone's level of "due care" [legaleze for how you are judged in responding in an incident] is related to one's training. An ER doc is held to a higher standard of "due care" when she helps at an accident scene than a "mere civilian" -- but maybe not as high a standard as a para-medic. In a scuba incident, a professional (DM/Instructor) will be held to a higher standard than a nubie OW diver just because of the differences in their training.

Note -- please feel free to agree or disagree with this analysis but PLEASE do not offer legal advice JUST BECAUSE you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night! And for the record, I stayed in a Comfort Inn last night but I did go to law school 35 years ago.

Click to expand...

I agree 100%.
Should I ever be "off duty" and at the site of an emergency I will certainly hold myself to the same standard of care that I would for my own students.

When on vacation I will occasionally travel incognito on my AOW card to avoid the babysitter recruiting situation Herman mentioned.

No i'm not trolling! If you are tired of the question, DON'T RESPOND move along and everyone is happy. I'm sure many if not all topics on this board have been discussed in the past. Why do you feel the need to reply like that? I don't get it.

Peter, I have a question for you with regard to potential liability in such a situation.

Diver A and Diver B have identical qualifications, both are instructors on vacation and are on the same boat. Diver A presents his advanced card upon check in. He keeps a low profile, but does answer questions when asked. He goes off with his buddy and enjoys his dive. Diver B presents his instructor card upon check in. He makes sure everyone on the boat knows he is an instructor. He goes out of his way to point out things he believes others should do differently.

An accident takes place and everyone on the boat is named in the suit. Has Diver B potentially opened himself up to more liability than Diver A?

Funny..this has been beaten...and so have many other threads...so give it a rest with the trolling aspect...leave well alone or just answer the question and move on.

now on with our story....


Why hide your status? Seriously. You have the right to say no. Say no to being a babysitter. Say no to having to pay to do the operators Job. Do the DM's job...do the instructors job and do the captains job.

I have this rule...call it crazy..but....I present my DM card...I state clearly when booking my dives that I am a paying customer on vacation like everyone else. I also state that I will dive with a competent buddy - if there is one available..If no one is available...I will dive solo..sign what ever they want and go from there. OR Dive with the DM and do my thing. Meaning dive solo. also I mention that if they wish for me to act as there DM...no problem...I will present them with the invoice stating the cost of my TRIP plus my daily expenses and my hourly rate. I expect payment at teh end of day. They quickly avoid eye contact and walk away.

I really do not mind diving with an insta buddy. I set strict rules to that effect. My first rule is. Do what I tell you. Second rule is...Refer to rule one. If the person is not comfortable in following the dive plan I set forth...they can find another buddy and I dive solo anyways....Harsh..but I PAID to be there. Not vis versa. I will gladly assist in any emergency if I can....