Recreational drug's=Death

Hi All

Sadly there was a diving death here in Sydney yesterday. A 26 year old man had a heart attack at 12m and died before reaching the surface.

I was at the site and helped get him ashore but there was little that we could do as his heart had already stopped beating. There is speculation that he had taken some sort of recreational drug (drugs) the night before and was still suffering the effects when he went diving some hours later.

Maybe Dr Deco could answer this question, but it seems that drugs and depth don't mix and sadly this time around it resulted in a divers death. Is there a direct correlation between drugs, any drugs, be it recreational or medical and depth?

If the answer to this is yes then should we be advising divers before we teach courses and take people diving that if they have taken any kind of drugs they shouldn't dive? Its easy to say if you are using drugs then you should use common sense...people don't, but as an Instructor I don't really want the responsibility of someone ODing down there
because in this senario you really have no control whatsoever.

Does anyone have any thoughs on this and has anyone ever dived with anyone on drugs?

Hocky

Sadly, this is no different than operating a car or doing anything for that matter under the influence of any drug or body altering substance. People know better. It is sad that people are that stupid to have to be constantly reminded about mixing drugs/alcohol and diving/driving/piloting etc.....Alot of people just don't care. They take classes to get the card so they can get bottles filled, period.

If you were to survey rec divers, a large percentage would not remember how to use tables, figure out and apply residuals and appropriate surface intervals etc....Now add in computers and people will just go diving and not do any manual back up planning.

Maybe I am too calous, but if you are dumb enough to take drugs then go diving, I just don't have alot of sympathy for you. Your family and the people who love you, those are the ones I feel sorry for. And then of course in America, lets find someone to sue, cause it must be somebody elses fault..........You didn't put a warning lable on my dive gear that says "don't dive after smokin' crack for 24hrs" so now I'm gonna sue you Mr. Dive Gear maker......

Venting over......

Very, very nicely put!

Dear Readers:

As long as people fermented grape juice, they have done foolish things while “under the influence.” Diving is just one of many things that do not mix well with drugs. It is very difficult to get that across to people because we have a “recreational drug mentality.”

Additionally, what I do not quite understand (as an individual originally trained as a chemist) is why a large fraction of the population is “all natural, no chemicals” except where “recreational drugs” is concerned. It is a dichotomy that I have never understood.

I am preaching here, but those most in need will not read this - - or pay heed. They have heard it many times before and have the attitude that “it will not happen to me.” Nevertheless, we read horror stories in the newspapers and know that it sadly does occur. Moreover, in its wake are left shattered lives of the family members.

I can only hope that some guardian angels are certified SCUBA divers.
_____________________
Dr Deco

"Additionally, what I do not quite understand (as an individual originally trained as a chemist) is why a large fraction of the population is “all natural, no chemicals” except where “recreational drugs” is concerned. It is a dichotomy that I have never understood."

And what gets me is this idiotic misconception that all "drugs" are "artificial", and hence "bad". But that anything "natural" is automatically "good"... and cannot possibly hurt you. Oookay... so both opimium and cocaine, being derived from plants are good then, right? And of course hemlock and belladonna, being "natural", couldn't possibly hurt us because they're "natural"... geeez!

~SubMariner~

This is slightly different than 'operating a car or pilotting..'

Most people who die while driving/flying/diving under the influence don't do so because of a heart attack. I'm not advocating using drugs; I'm curious as to the original question raised: Is there a correlation between some types of drugs, depth and catostrophic failure of the body? If so, can DMs or potential buddies be particularly alert to the symptoms (if any) of current/prior use?

Keep in mind that people take prescription drugs while diving (every operation I've dove with has required disclosure)... but taking a stomach medicine vs. a narcotic are two totally different things... Although, not really if the stomach medicine makes you prone to heart faiure below 30 feet.

That would suck if you got paired up with a buddy and right before you jumped in he/she said: "Oh, by the way, I'm taking dive n' die, but its OK, I told the dive operator." You think you'd have a good dive?

Hey all,

Now, while I may be a Network Doctor, I AM NOT A MEDICAL DOCTOR... Of course, I could say something tongue in cheek, like “I actually know what I am doing”, but I don't think the real doctors would be amused. And heck, I think OUR doctors on this board really DO have their stufola together…

That being said... when I took my NitrOx course, the concept of how we metabolize or absorb various gases at various pressures was presented to me. Apparently, an increase of the PPO2 (partial pressure of Oxygen) made some mostly harmless drugs (like some decongestants) deadly. This was directly related to how the body metabolizes O2 and how the drug interferes with that process. Any drug that could possibly affect the body's ability to handle either N2 or O2 can be potentially deadly when the gas' partial pressure rises above what we would normally see at one atmosphere. An increased affinity for N2 (i.e. on-gas faster and off-gas slower) from a drug would make all your dive tables useless, giving you a higher chance for DCS and/or possibly hasten the onset of narcosis from depth. The kicker is that these aren’t the only considerations that arise from the use of “recreational”, over the counter, or even prescription drugs.

Most, if not all of the data we have are based on drug free circumstances. There is scant information on how most drugs would affect your body as it relates to diving. Trying to guess which way the gas “ball” would bounce is lunacy. Russian Roulette looks like better odds to me in light of this. Mr. Darwin, we have even more proof for your theories...

IMO, doing drugs (natural or synthetic) is plain stupid, the side note about driving or diving "under the influence" is in my eyes rather irrelevant.

Originally posted by Hocky

If the answer to this is yes then should we be advising divers before we teach courses and take people diving that if they have taken any kind of drugs they shouldn't dive? Its easy to say if you are using drugs then you should use common sense...people don't, but as an Instructor I don't really want the responsibility of someone ODing down there
because in this senario you really have no control whatsoever.

Does anyone have any thoughs on this and has anyone ever dived with anyone on drugs?

Click to expand...

I was under the impression that it was obligatory to tell dive students that you must not drink or do recreational drugs and dive. This was one of the first things my instructor told me (perhaps because she knows me too well ) but I'm sure she and her partner do the same with all their new students. Is it not a requirement?

I think that all students divers are told diving and drugs don't mix. Obviously some divers are on medications as part of their daily routine and these should be noted on the health forms that are filled out. These are things that are being treated by a doctor. Some get the clearance to dive and thats fine with me. Its after people have learned to dive when the improper use of drugs or medications comes into play. Diver Joe Q Public is bothered by ear or sinus problems and someone other than a doctor tells them,"I take this decongestant or whatever medication will do the trick" so I can dive. This really drives me nuts since most of these people DON'T understand the pharmacology and side effects at all. Of course there are those people who will abuse drugs for "recreational" purposes regardless of what their activity--driving,diving,flying, mountain climbing etc. All drugs or medications have an effect on your entire body. The organ or tissues that are most effected are usually the reason for taking the medication. Most people are simply not aware of the side effects but they are there and may become pronounced and non-conducive to safe diving.