dir equipment

[scuberd]

I'm taking baby steps towards DIR right now and I have a couple of questions:
1. what kinds of regulators are DIR approved and why?
2. what kinds of fins?
3. whats up with black?

that's all I can think of at the moment, but there will probably be more later.

[jonnythan]

I'm no DIR guy, but I've read the answers to these questions a lot, so I'll take a stab at it. Let's see how I do.

1) Apeks, mostly. High enough performance, proven reliable, sealed first stages, and downstream second stages that are easy to disassemble (and clear of grit) while underwater. IIRC the WKPP has a lot of safety tanks in the caves that have SP regulators - I read George saying that the first stages (don't remember which ones) are rock solid forever as long as they're wet.

2) Jet Fins. They're heavy and indestructable. They're stiff so they're suited to many different fin techniques. I'm sure a lot of DIR guys use other paddle fins (I see people talking about the Mares Quattros a lot). No splits or Force fins.

3) It's cool ;) Seriously, there's nothing wrong with color. George himself has a drysuit that's half red. The problem is color coding hoses and regulators and things like that - complicates the issue for no reason whatsoever. Tank markings are used to identify tanks.

[Cave Diver]

In spite of popular belief, there is no "special equipment list" for DIR diving.

They have certain standards that equipment is expected to meet, and any brand is acceptable as long as it meets the standards.

The best place to get the equipment recommendations is out of the "Doing it Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving."

To answer your questions:

1) For regulators, a high performance balanced second stage is preferred by many for their primary reg while a slightly lower performance unbalanced second stage for the back up (reducing the tendency to freeflow) The balanced reg provides better breathing, while the unbalanced provides a reliable backup. Diaphragm regs are preferred for cold water use where regulator freeze up is a potential hazard.

2) Any stiff fin that allows you to adequately perform a variety of different kicks and provide the power to move large amounts of heavy gear easily.

3) Black is a preference by some, not a requirement. There is nothing that I have ever seen regarding color and DIR.

[bwerb]

the local DIR instructor wears a pink mask simply for the irony of wearing something so completely "uncool" .

Wear any color you want...

[ElectricZombie]

scuberd once bubbled...

1. what kinds of regulators are DIR approved and why?
2. what kinds of fins?
3. whats up with black?


1. High performance balanced regs as primaries, unbalanced regs as backups. (For increased reliability) Most people choose either ScubaPro or Apex. I favor ScubaPro because I think they breath better.

2. ScubaPro Jet Fins. Durable and versitile. Can do any type of kick with these. Offer a good amount of power.

3. Black is cool!! Actually, it does not really matter what color your gear is. I personally HATE colorful gear and find it distracting and annoying. So, everything I own is black. A lot of this gear only comes in black anyway.

[boomx5]

bwerb once bubbled...
the local DIR instructor wears a pink mask simply for the irony of wearing something so completely "uncool" .

That's a total rule#6 violation. If I were you, I would have to exersize option #1 on him.;)

[sheck33]

Are you kidding :confused:

Wear black or DIE! :wacko:

;)

My regulators are Oceanic's
And i have turtle fins. :D

[Bob3]

... ScubaPro Jet Fins. Scubapro's patent ran out on their design for the Jet Fin. IDI makes a clone that is every bit as good & is frequently found for less $$. IDI also makes the Turtle Fin, the Godzilla size for folks big feet.

[roturner]

scuberd once bubbled...
I'm taking baby steps towards DIR right now and I have a couple of questions:
1. what kinds of regulators are DIR approved and why?
2. what kinds of fins?
3. whats up with black?

that's all I can think of at the moment, but there will probably be more later.

1. George Irvine wrote an article describing a DIR rig you can get at www.wkpp.org. On the GUE website there is probably also some of the information you seek. I think the thing with the regulators was diaphragm 1st (or at least environmentally sealed) and balanced downstream 2nd that you can take apart under water. And DIN, of course. I think the octo was supposed to be detuned to avoid free-flowing.

2. fins are Scubapro jetfins XL. Only one size. It assumes, of course that you'll be diving dry. If you don't then you might find the jetfins very heavy. The fins are also modified. They use spring straps instead of the rubber ones they come with.

3. You can have gear in any colour you want as long as the colour you want is black.

R..

[jonnythan]

roturner once bubbled...
2. fins are Scubapro jetfins XL. Only one size. It assumes, of course that you'll be diving dry. If you don't then you might find the jetfins very heavy. The fins are also modified. They use spring straps instead of the rubber ones they come with.

3. You can have gear in any colour you want as long as the colour you want is black.

R..

:confused:

[Doof]

Where is it stated that you MUST have Jetfins and that they MUST be XL?

[roturner]

Doof once bubbled...
Where is it stated that you MUST have Jetfins and that they MUST be XL?

You're going to tell me that this isn't the case?

Check here:

http://www.gue.com/equipment/fins.shtml

Maybe there are other choices available but I hear DIR divers say this often. If I believe the Netherlands contingent of DIR (who are......uhmmmm.... "enthusiastic" to say the least), NOT wearing jetfins makes you a major stroke.

I understand that the XL has the best fit for drysuit boots.... I can't verify from personal experience. I had a set of jetfins once upon a time but I got rid of them because I found them too heavy. I also dove wet at the time.

R..
P.S. The thing about black was supposed to be a joke.

[DutchDown]

roturner once bubbled...

"If I believe the Netherlands contingent of DIR (who are......uhmmmm.... "enthusiastic" to say the least), NOT wearing jetfins makes you a major stroke."

Hmmm...Reckon I oughta be careful wearing my Quattros in public here. I can always explain in my awful American accent that I'm just an inncent foreigner. By the way, what is stroke in Nederlands. I like to learn at least one new word each day.:D

[roturner]

DutchDown once bubbled...
roturner once bubbled...

"If I believe the Netherlands contingent of DIR (who are......uhmmmm.... "enthusiastic" to say the least), NOT wearing jetfins makes you a major stroke."

Hmmm...Reckon I oughta be careful wearing my Quattros in public here. I can always explain in my awful American accent that I'm just an inncent foreigner. By the way, what is stroke in Nederlands. I like to learn at least one new word each day.:D

Je kunt hem een "stroke" noemen. ;)

What I've heard in terms of arguments in favour of Jet fins seem to revolve around 3 points:

1) better trim with a drysuit. Jetfins are a shade negative so you can lose the ankle weights if you needed them. I think for divers who are entering overheads, the loss of an ankle weight could become problematic so it makes some sense to me. You might also say that a fin like the Quattro that is more efficient is a better choice in combination with small ankle weights for diving in non-overheads.

2) better control of the frog and perhaps more importantly, the reverse frog-kick. I wouldn't know. I can frog kick in any old fins. The reverse f.k. is another matter, though. I can't do it very well anyway and with the fins I use (Aqualung Blades II) I find them a shade too flexible to control it well. Maybe it's just me or maybe the jetfins would be better.

3) The jetfins are stiff enough and robust enough to use for pushing off of things. I've heard this mentioned a number of times by wreck divers. I'm not sure I'd *want* to be pushing off of things inside a wreck but that's maybe another story.

R..

[O-ring]

A stiff bladed fin lends itself to doing those types of kicks...I don't think it is stated anywhere that you HAVE to use XL Jets..

[Waterborne]

By the way, what is stroke in Nederlands. I like to learn at least one new word each day.
beroerte
1. fit, seizure, stroke

Just for fun. :D

You probably get the general idea of it by now scuberd.

1. Regs- downstream, balanced primary, unbalcanced backup, ability to come apart underwater, it's covered pretty well here.

2. Fins - they don't have to be Jets but I like them. Good power, comfortable, some extra heft in the feet for drysuit use. I use mine wet as well without any problems. As Bob mentioned the IDI's are the same. Any good solid fin will do I think. The springs are nice because they eliminate the rubber strap that can and will break. You can make a set easily for under 20 quid.

3. I see that alot of the manufacturers only offer some gear in black. That kind of narrows down your choices a bit. If any one made a good solid singles wing in red, I'd be the first one to buy it. :D

[sheck33]

roturner once bubbled...


Je kunt hem een "stroke" noemen. ;)

What I've heard in terms of arguments in favour of Jet fins seem to revolve around 3 points:

1) better trim with a drysuit. Jetfins are a shade negative so you can lose the ankle weights if you needed them. I think for divers who are entering overheads, the loss of an ankle weight could become problematic so it makes some sense to me. You might also say that a fin like the Quattro that is more efficient is a better choice in combination with small ankle weights for diving in non-overheads.

2) better control of the frog and perhaps more importantly, the reverse frog-kick. I wouldn't know. I can frog kick in any old fins. The reverse f.k. is another matter, though. I can't do it very well anyway and with the fins I use (Aqualung Blades II) I find them a shade too flexible to control it well. Maybe it's just me or maybe the jetfins would be better.

3) The jetfins are stiff enough and robust enough to use for pushing off of things. I've heard this mentioned a number of times by wreck divers. I'm not sure I'd *want* to be pushing off of things inside a wreck but that's maybe another story.

R..

Turtlefins are fine too, as long as the blade of the fine is stiff enough.

[scuberd]

SCORE ResQ once bubbled...

You can make a set easily for under 20 quid.

20 quid? I don't know if I can afford that... maybe if I could get what I needed for 20 dollars :D ;)

[Waterborne]

20 quid? I don't know if I can afford that... maybe if I could get what I needed for 20 dollars
I'll blame that on my buddies from the UK. :D

[Doof]

Well, I can tell you with certainty that XL jetfins are too big for me in my drysuit. Large fits just fine.

And I don't have my DIR book handy, but I don't recall ever seeing the word Jetfin in it. I do remember mention of the spring straps, though, and it may have gone as far as saying "black rubber fins".

[detroit diver]

Doof once bubbled...
Well, I can tell you with certainty that XL jetfins are too big for me in my drysuit. Large fits just fine.

And I don't have my DIR book handy, but I don't recall ever seeing the word Jetfin in it. I do remember mention of the spring straps, though, and it may have gone as far as saying "black rubber fins".

The reason XL Jets are suggested is because of the size of the blade, not because of the size of the foot pocket. The XL blade is MUCH larger than any of the other sizes. I'm not sure why SP does this, but if you look at the two side by side you'll see a huge difference.

SP will now be making a foot pocket to fit their Jets which will compete with the turtles. Why they didn't do this before makes no sense.

[Doof]

Well you'll forgive me if I don't quite agree with that statement. The book makes absolutely no mention of the size or brand of fin. In fact, the only thing it does say about fins is that they should have a stiff blade and no plastic buckles (spring straps are preferred).

It would be, IMO, stupid to specify what size fins people should wear. You'd then be discriminating against everybody with small feet. Surely you're not suggesting that anybody with a small foot either wear boots that don't fit to accomodate XL fins, or else be labeled a stroke?

Personally, I'd rather wear boots and fins that fit and deal with a slightly smaller blade than suffer with boots and fins that float all around my feet (thus eliminating any benefit I would have gained by wearing a stiff blade in the first place) just to fit your definition of DIR.

[detroit diver]

First of all, drop the stroke crap. I didn't mention it in my post at all. This is how stuff starts that gets out of control, and the DIR folks get blamed for it.

I'm not referring to the book. I'm referring to what is taught in the class.

And I'm not suggesting that you wear something that doesn't fit your foot either.

Given the choice of picking a large or XL, the XL is preferrable because of the blade size.







Doof once bubbled...
Well you'll forgive me if I don't quite agree with that statement. The book makes absolutely no mention of the size or brand of fin. In fact, the only thing it does say about fins is that they should have a stiff blade and no plastic buckles (spring straps are preferred).

It would be, IMO, stupid to specify what size fins people should wear. You'd then be discriminating against everybody with small feet. Surely you're not suggesting that anybody with a small foot either wear boots that don't fit to accomodate XL fins, or else be labeled a stroke?

Personally, I'd rather wear boots and fins that fit and deal with a slightly smaller blade than suffer with boots and fins that float all around my feet (thus eliminating any benefit I would have gained by wearing a stiff blade in the first place) just to fit your definition of DIR.

[Doof]

You're right. I apologize for the stroke comment. I got a little overzealous there. :out:

It just bugs me when people start throwing out absolutes. "You MUST use X to be DIR." The book makes no mention of brand names, and simply lays out guidelines for what is acceptable and why. I can't comment on the class material as I haven't taken DIRf yet, but I can assure you that if anybody tries to tell me that I'm wearing the wrong size fin without being able to demonstrate to me that another size would fit me better, then I'm outta there.

But from what I've heard of the actual instructors, this wouldn't happen.