Nitrox 28 Uncertified

I am not sure how common this is but I have been asked the question by a relative novice do you think it is safe to let uncertified divers with little or no knowledge of Nitrox use this Gas.
If you type this into Google subex red sea air28 the art of diving it should be the third entry down (I cant post links yet)

Personally I am uneasy, who analysing the gas for example.

Well this is my opinion, At 28% of O2 and at a PPO2 of 1.4 the max depth is at 132ft. and is at the recreational level. If your diving in waters that are not deeper than 132ft. you would be ok. I guess I'm saying that if everything when perfect with your dive you would be ok. But if your in deeper water and you had some problems and for what ever reason could not control your buoyancy than the O2 would become a problem for you. Maybe even deadly. Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating this at all. With out the proper training I would not do this or tell anyone to do this. I don't agree with this with out training.
jm2c

Nitrox breathes like air, so no training is needed to breathe it. The danger of Nitrox lies in understanding the other implications, most importantly oxygen toxicity.

Though it's non-standard practice, as long as the correct gas mix is confirmed and the MOD is deeper the hard bottom at the site, there's no real danger to an untrained diver using Nitrox.

However there is a subtle danger in developing the habit of letting others excercise judgement for you. Every diver needs to make his own decisions and control his own destiny, and depending on the decisions of others is per se risky practice.

I checked out the link...

It seems like a cheap, tacky marketing ploy, by an unregulated and extremely minor diving 'organization' (i.e. their organization is there own shops...with no external validation or control).

SUBEX Red Sea Diving Centers - The Art of Diving

It seems as though SUBEX is a diving company...and 'solitary' diving organization...setting it's own standards etc.
"Our Training Is Internationally Recognized"

By whom?

"Although we base SUBEX training on our own unique training concept, it is in conformity with all major standards, e.g. CMAS, SSI, PADI and NAUI."


With regards to the use of Nitrox - they are not conforming with industry standards or best practice...as appropriate training is required, covering gas analysis and dive planning.

"Since the start of the 2006 season, divers at all SUBEX bases have been treated to SUBEX's very own breathing gas: SUBEX air28."


Are they trying to 'copyright' a 28% mix as their invention, product or what?!?!?!?


Subex's very own??

SUBEX air28 is a light NITROX mixture containing 28% oxygen.

"This mix of air combines the advantages of 'NITROX diving' (32-36% oxygen) with the use of 'normal' diving air (containing 21% oxygen)."

'Light Nitrox'? ***?

1. Nitrox is nitrox - regardless of %.
2. Recreational Nitrox is anything 22-40% (not 32-36% as they state)

How does this 'light' nitrox combine any benefits of 'Nitrox Diving' and 'Air Diving'?

"However, the dive computer doesn't need to be switched to a NITROX mixture, but remains in the normal compressed air mode."

So, basically, they are just using Nitrox 28....and allowing customers to plan their dives as Air Dives...to enjoy slightly more conservative nitrogen uptake?

However, customers are not analysising their mixes, not being informed of maximum operating depths........


"For sport divers on holiday, these two measures taken by SUBEX have succeeded in 'squaring the circle'."




"No additional training or NITROX certificate is required to dive with SUBEX air28, since this air mixture does not take divers beyond the threshold past which holding a NITROX certificate is mandatory."

Yes, it does....with any other recreational diving agency in the world.

The threshold for nitrox training is 22% (i.e. anything greater than air).

28% has an MOD...like any mixture...and even though it coincides with the recreational maximum (28m/130ft)...divers still need to be educated about that.

Also, there are issues with pulmonary toxicity...and the dangers of not analysising/confirming the blend used....and fire hazards....

"The adoption of SUBEX air28 as its standard mix makes SUBEX the first dive operator in the world to launch a new product. Once again, SUBEX has broken down a barrier for the benefit of sport divers on vacation the whole world over."


This cheap, tacky marketing ploy makes me sick.


"Better than NITROX, better than a normal air mix", SUBEX air28 the air mixture with a future."




There is NOTHING new about using a mixture of 28% oxygen....or of using Nitrox whilst planning dives on air NDLs.

Attempting to claim 'ownership' of this concept is laughable.

In addition, claiming (falsely) that the use of 'light' nitrox does not require any training or education is contrary to the policies/standards/recommendations and/or best practice agreed by every other agency.

From what I read of this company...and their attitude towards marketing themselves...and their mis-representation of nitrox diving.... I would, personally, steer very very clear of these jokers.

don Francisco:

Though it's non-standard practice, as long as the correct gas mix is confirmed and the MOD is deeper the hard bottom at the site, there's no real danger to an untrained diver using Nitrox.

Click to expand...

IF the sites dived on "SUBEX 28" (I still cant say that without laughing) were all limited with a maximum bottom depth above 130ft/40m.... then the divers concerned would be (unknowingly) safe from the dangers of oxygen toxicity. However, that means the best wall and pinnacle dive sites would be unavailable to them.......

IF the blending, storage and marking of tanks was done perfectly, every time, and with no chance of human error....then the divers concerned would be safe from accidentally being given a tank with a higher %. Of course, human error never happens...and people never die from oxygen toxicity because they breathed a higher mix than they thought they had....

IF the divers concerned were made aware of the need to calculate %CNS dose and pulmonary toxicity over repetitive dives...then they would be safe to dive "SUBEX 28" as their standard mix...for repetitive dives, over multiple days..... but using this as a standard mix....for all dives...at all depths....poses other dangers...not just those dictated by the PPo2 on a single dive...:shocked2:

Andy,
You took the words right out of my mouth, Plus some extras.

I think that providing nitrox to an unqualified diver puts a certain liability on the provider in the event of an O2 related injury. That said, I do not understand why boat (mostly live-a-boards) that have both air and nitrox divers and provide backup gas at their safety stop facility, do not provide nitrox rather than air in that backup gas. It can not possibly result in O2 an related injury and it can only reduce the chances of a nitrogen loading problem.

awap:

It can not possibly result in O2 an related injury....

Click to expand...

If you owned a liveaboard....would you stake your business on that statement?

I agree though....nitrox as an emergency air source...with the right procedures in place...would be beneficial.

However, when is Air not enough? Drop tanks are only there to allow low/out-of-gas divers to complete a safety stop or, at worst, emergency decompression.

Using nitrox starts to blur the line towards accelerated decompression....

Dive Adventures:

Well this is my opinion, At 28% of O2 and at a PPO2 of 1.4 the max depth is at 132ft. and is at the recreational level. If your diving in waters that are not deeper than 132ft. you would be ok. I guess I'm saying that if everything when perfect with your dive you would be ok. But if your in deeper water and you had some problems and for what ever reason could not control your buoyancy than the O2 would become a problem for you. Maybe even deadly. Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating this at all. With out the proper training I would not do this or tell anyone to do this. I don't agree with this with out training.
jm2c

Click to expand...

With documented oxtox fatalities at a ppO2 of 1.3, and the historical trend being to lower the allowable ppO2 limits, this may not be entirely true.

...if you're breathing gas, not air, you need the knowledge. NOT a "trust me" dive.



Besides, wasn't this beaten to death here?

Thistlegorm on Air



All the best, James

DevonDiver:

If you owned a liveaboard....would you stake your business on that statement?

I agree though....nitrox as an emergency air source...with the right procedures in place...would be beneficial.

However, when is Air not enough? Drop tanks are only there to allow low/out-of-gas divers to complete a safety stop or, at worst, emergency decompression.

Using nitrox starts to blur the line towards accelerated decompression....

Click to expand...

Yes, I think I would. I would insure the means by which it is provided prohibits the gas from being taken deeper. And then I would probably use it as a positive advertisement. It allows any diver (air or nitrox) to complete a good rest/deco stop at about 15 ft without compromising his NDL status. Sure, air is every bit as good for completing the dive at hand but it does throw off the NDL status (ever so little) for a nitrox diver.

Heck, I think the liability of an OP that only provides air for nitrox divers to breath at a safety stop and then permits them to continue diving normally for subsequent dives should be considered.