NEW!! Dive the airplane at Kirkfield!!

[seahunter]

This is the latest Ontario diving news and this is the first post about it on the internet. I know because I just got back from Kirkfield (I live 15 minutes from there) and still have grease on my hands from the airplane as I type this!
Thanks to Scuba 2000, the Scuba 2000 leaders, Peter Muehlegg of Sky Wagon City Inc in Brechin and Ken Wilson, caretaker of Kirkfield Quarry, we now have a new wreck to dive on AND IT'S AN AIRPLANE!!

Over 30 divers from Scuba 2000 met Alec, Peter and Ken at the quarry today (Sunday) to watch, photograph and help to sink and position the airplane.
The plane was donated by Peter. He and Alec spent a couple of days getting it ready to make it safe for diving. The divers and spectators at the quarry had a great time assembling the plane at the water's edge and then rigging it with lift bags before sending it into the water. That's when the real fun began and all the divers were worn out as they emerged a long time later.

The plane is there (right by the cruiser) and looks great! Over the next few days we'll re-position it a short distance farther out so we'll now have several different things to explore at Kirkfield.

If you've not dived Kirkfield or not made a scuba dive onto an airplane, call Scuba 2000. We will be adding several new dive dates for Kirkfield over the next few weeks. It's a fun dive, not far from Toronto, great water and now even more exciting!

Thanks to Peter, Ken, Alec and also to John Vanderbrook of Tam Dive (Peterborough) who could not be there today but who was part of the whole plan.

I'll have some pictures of the day's activities posted soon.

[Tom R]

Excellent Smithers,

Have some fun with it. Enjoy the fruits of your labour, and let lots of people dive it

Tom

[Jonathan]

Tom - I take it you were doing a reply?! If not I can take it out again...

seahunter - sounds like fun and I hope you got all that grease off the sucker before sinking it?! They sunk a bus as Wraysbury in the UK without a proper cleaning and as a result was not diveable for about a year, if I remember correctly, because of all the grease and diesel....

Jonathan

[seahunter]

Thanks for your support guys!

The plane is very clean. We removed the gas tanks, engine, all the linkages, one door, rear window and anything that might bite or scratch a diver.
The grease came from earlier this morning when we put the wheels on. The hubs were still a bit smeared.

[GTADiver]

I was just curious....did you guys have to do an enviromental impact study and jump through other hoops or can you just put things in the water? If you can just put stuff in it would be nice to get an old city bus.

[seahunter]

Kirkfield is completely and privately owned.
The airplane was environmentally perfect.
No government involvement needed.
Success!! End of story.

We're looking at other appropriate projects. Interestingly, motorized vehicles are considerably dirtier than planes - engines, trannys, diffs, hydraulic brakes, etc.

[Boogie711]

I am sure the Ministry of Environment may not really give a rat's butt whether or not Kirkfield is on private property or not. If you're thought to be contaminating an aquifer or watertable, watch out.

The whole "private property" argument doesn't mean anything (whether it should or not is a different argument entirely.) The tires in Hagersville? On private property. The USE Hickson plant? On private property. Pouring TCE into the ground? Doesn't matter whether it's on private property or not.

Put it another way - I DARE you to call the Ministry of Environment office closest to you and say "We just sunk an airplane into a natural waterway. Don't worry - it's on private property. You guys are cool with that, right?"

[Marvintpa]

Congratulations Alec... sounds like a great addition. I'm glad to hear someone is actually DOING something to make Ontario diving better.

What kinda plane is it?

[seahunter]

I figured with the Air Canada problem that I'd be able to get a 747 or at least an Airbus cheap but had to settle for a Cessna 150!

Get behind the stick and let your imagination take over!!

Images are here: http://www.scuba2000.com/gallery/kirkfield/index.htm

[seahunter]

What do you all think guys? Should I call the MOE as Boogie suggests or shall we band together as a responsible group of fun-loving divers and enjoy ourselves?
It's kinda' academic to me since I've been there but I was hoping lots and lots of divers would get an extra thrill - safely, at no cost and with no harm to anyone or anything!! Maybe I'm naive.

You left out Mad Cow, West Nile and SARS Boogie.

Does it seem to some of you that no matter what I do I get **** on?
Please realize that I don't even dive anymore. I did this for you. Yesterday I paid Ken Wilson his fee for entry of the divers into Kirkfield out of my pocket. The divers were not charged!!
Maybe I should make Boogie happy and close the f...... store, sell my vintage gear and go home. I get a kick out of doing things like this but I sure as hell don't need to!!
What have you done Boogie for the divers of Ontario?

2 days of hard work on the plane; the plane donation itself took some convincing - Peter is in the business of salvaging plane wrecks and selling the parts, not throwing them in the water; 30 volunteer divers; gas and trailer rentals to get the plane over there (paid by me); 75 year old Ken Wilson stuck his neck out a mile to let us do it in the hope of getting a few more divers up there so he can supplement his old age income.

What's in for me Boogie? What's your beef?

I guess my mistake was in telling you all about it so you could enjoy it too. I will learn!!

[Boogie711]

Obviously, someone has had his cheerio's pee'd on this morning.

I'm sorry if you thought my post was a challenge to you or your store. Incidentally, I still maintain that this entire thread is inappropriate on this board, but we can continue that discussion in another thread.

My point was, and remains - underestimating the scope of authority, and the willingness to get involved, of the Provincial Ministry of Environment is naivete at best, and financially dangerous at worst.

Just saying "It's on private property" doesn't mean jack to the MOE. Just be aware.

And in the meantime - calm down.

[SneakyB'tard]

I can't remember now, maybe someone can help me....

The road to hell is paved with what again?:)

[seahunter]

Bingo Sneaky!! Where've you been?

Thanks for the beer Boogie. It was starting to bother me that all the effort wasn't worth it.
Is your objection to this post because of the mention of the supporters of the project or another reason?

As a basis for further discussion or another related thread, I have worked with at least a dozen other stores, clubs and individuals on similar if not larger projects and we were all completely stymied in our 'good intentions' by the various levels of authority. It certainly proved to be 'hell' for us.

The most recent and most frustrating was the sinking of the CDN destroyer off Oshawa which looked promising for a while. Eventually we simply had to give up!
The boat was sold (so I've been told) to California for $1 INCLUDING SHIPPING TO SAN DIEGO ON CANADIAN TAX MONEY and added to the many sunk ships in that area for their divers to play on.

Hence my sensitivity in this matter. I hope you too feel my frustration.

[Groundhog246]

Let no good deed go unpunished.

I suspect what Boogie meant was the distinct possibility that someone from MOE may also dive and could raise havoc. On the other hand, Kirkfield Quarry is not a natural waterway, it's a longer worked quarry. Since we as divers, are not likely to put anything that would adversly affect the quality of our diving in the water. I would hope that with the MOE's constant complaints about underfunding and overwork that they've much higher priorities.

On the issue of future projects. We dove Gilboa last year. One of the "interesting" structures was "The Tubes" Appeared to be fiberglass (?) tanks in the 10,000 gallon range with the ends removed and stacked 2 wide, 2 high with the upper 2 at right angles. On the motorized vehicle front, an electric bus or streetcar should be a lot cleaner.

[seahunter]

In a discussion at Shoeless Joe's last night, it was agreed that the MOE would NOT be pleased about this project or anything like it but mainly as matter of principle.

Having been appointed as the 'saviour' of our world, they would probably object not because the project or the plane was a hazard in any way but simply because they were not asked for permission. The fact we know they'd say 'No!' when asked is not relevant. They want to be asked - No, they demand to be asked!! -before they say no!

Interesting hog. I wonder what the perspective is if the U/W structure is entirely built-up from new, clean materials?
Stacks of large (48") culverts or cement well tiles or 1000 gallon septic tanks (I said new!) would make for interesting projects and variety on the bottom particularly for new divers or for training.
Many years ago a 'reef' was built of wood and rocks in Lake Simcoe in memory of 4 friends that died sadly while fishing. It is called (ready?) Four Friends Reef and is still dived occasionally. Lots of fish.

However, I still believe some egghead beaurocrat would be down on it! Heck it's cheap, fun and non-taxable!! It must be bad!!

[Doppler]

seahunter once bubbled...
In a discussion at Shoeless Joe's last night, it was agreed that the MOE would NOT be pleased about this project or anything like it but mainly as matter of principle.


SNIPPED



Guys... how about cutting this guy some slack... MOE and polluting the aquafer... holy cow!

SH, for what's it's worth, thanks for spearheading this little project.

And for all you doubting Thomas types... I'll take off my hat to anyone and anything that might serve to keep people interested in diving here in the Great Lakes region. And just in case you think this is Doppler being philanthropic.... let me readjust your headsets... This is enlightened self-interest. Projects like this have a direct impact on my ability to sell technical programs. Projects like this feed the sales funnel by engaging new divers and helping to build their interest in our sport. At the same time, this type of thing helps rekindle interest for certified divers who might be getting a bit bored with the same old, same old. That helps me by supplying potential customers on an on-going basis.

Now, reading between the lines, it seems some of your are peeved at SH for his 'Advertising" activities on this board, but you can't blame him for that and we all have a chance to give him **** for it, and this falls into a slightly different category.

From a diving point of view, I think he screwed up -- it's a shame it's not a 767 at 230 feet :) -- but hey, at least someone's pitching in and doing something for the sport.

OK... I'm off the soapbox now!!!

Doppler Out

[Groundhog246]

SH: I can't see that they could say much about a structure built from new material. For that matter, what could be wrong with a large used culvert? It probably came from a "waterway" (ditch) that is more likely to affect groundwater and streams than an abandoned quarry. That does not of course mean they won't. The "tubes" previously mentioned are more like 8 to 10 feet in diameter, probably 30 feet or more long. I've seen large concrete culverts removed locally, that would make a great swim through. Getting and transporting one would be the issue.

Doppler: I'm not trying to be negative. I think it's great and I look forward to diving Kirkfield sometime (it's quite a drive from here). I would however, hate to see Seahunter, S2K or the owners/manager of the quarry in deep doodoo over their contribution. I think the original "criticism" was not over placing the plane, but of speaking too loudly about it in a somewhat public forum. If you built a new deck in your back yard, without a building permit. Photos and story about it in next weeks local paper, might not be a good idea. ;( My in-laws got caught a few years back, ripped down an old porch on the back of the house and rebuilt it. Building inspector showed up, made them stop work, submit plans and pay for a building permit. Before they'd issue a permit, my in-laws had to hire an engineer to examine the existing concrete slab to make sure it would hold up the new porch, which was the same as the one that had been there for 30 years, just not as rotten.

Do conditions in Kirkfield drop off a lot in the summer as water temps rise?

[seahunter]

Thanks guys (insert tear here)!

You may be right about mentioning the plane here. I thought about that before I posted the first message but I didn't support this project for myself or a few 'special' divers. It's for everyone so this seemd like a good spot to start.

Kirkfield doesn't change much from spring to fall. It's pretty big and pretty deep and spring fed.

[divebuddydale]

Where exactly is Kirkfield? I have heard of it, but never visited. I have had the misfortune of diving the Innerkip Quarry though (used to live in Woodstock, and My In-laws still live there). Is Kirkfield better than Innerkip? (it has to be the water at Innerkip sucks). I know Morrison Quarry is suppossed to be pretty good, it is in Quebec, so I am not jaded on all quarries.

Dale Sanger:confused:

[seahunter]

Kirkfield is MUCH better than Innerslop!!
I too made the mistake of diving at Innerslop - several times. Once before they stopped using it as the town sewage disposal and a couple of times since. There doesn't seem to be much difference. I still marvel that local instructors will take their new scuba students there and then wonder why they drop out of diving.

The map to Kirkfield is on our website (see bottom of my post) in the MAPS on the SITEMAP. It's about 1 hour north just off Highway 12 from the GTA.

Unfortunately, you can't just drive up there and go diving.It is private and caters to groups only. Contact me or your LDS to get details.

[divebuddydale]

Thanks S.H. I amy have to do that sometime this summer when I have a chance. Pretty hectic right now .I haven't even got wet this year because I just finished a 2 1/2 month period of working 7 days a weeks, but I usually start up in Late march / Early April.


Dale

[seahunter]

Today we spent about 6 hours at Kirkfield re-positioning the plane.
It is no longer on top of the cruiser but is upright about 50 feet away towards the center of the quarry.
Now it can be used for navigation exercises which was one of the original intentions.

Have fun!!

[TAM Dive]

nice job from the beginning...........thanks.......your's, Peter M's and Ken's efforts are appreciated...........
it's always fun diving Kirkfield Quarry, and now there's something new......

John Van de Broek
TAM Dive Peterborough

[seahunter]

Thanks for your encouragement John.

In case you missed the first post in this thread, I mentioned that John Van de Broek was part of this project. I'm glad he's pleased with the results and hope he gets to see and enjoy the plane soon.

[TAM Dive]

I do appreciate the mention.....................
I did get the chance to dive the plane actually the day after you all sunk it........landed well on the cruiser (hee hee) I hear it's now in a new location.........I'm looking forward to checking it out..........